FFW (CT/MT): Zhodani equivalent to the Hind-D concept?

[Redcap]

It occurred to me that during the Fifth Frontier War, the Zhodani invaded a fair number of worlds; they would need craft capable of dropping troops from place to place, which would also need to be capable of both exo- and inter-atmospheric operations, moving small numbers of troops, engaging enemy forces, dominating the ground-side battlefield, and resupply.

The Soviet-era Hind-D (Mi-25 series) did all of this (barring the exo-atmospherics, dammit!).

It seems to me that a partial job can be done with the existing Ships Boat design, but lacking the extensive armament; so how the hell do we make, within the rules of CT and MT, a Hind-D-like craft that can do the small boat thing with the 8-troop capability and MAHOOSIVE armament (missiles, guns, bombs, etc) thing, in under 100 (preferably 50) tons, too?

Ideas?

 

[Condottiere]

Depends on which edition's ship design system you use.

Other than that, helicopters correspond closest with gravitational lifter propulsion.

 

[Redcap]

I actually prefer the rules set for MT, with the CT setting, so MT rules for ship/craft construction are likely the best option here.

As to propulsion, yes, a gravitic or manoeuvre drive craft seems best suited to the purpose.

 

[coliver988]

Not sure if the assault cutter is within those bounds. From the GURPS Cutter book (and sorry, this is a copy/paste from the PDF so may have interesting typos. Fairly certain that this snippet is within fair use, if not, let me know!)

LOWALAA-CLASS 50-TON ASSAULT CUTTER (TL12) While several cutter modules are intended for use in ground combat, evaluation of their performance showed that the survival rate of the standard cutter was sub-optimal. When the Imperial Marines began to explore the possibility of using cutters in military operations, LSP promptly developed a modern, heavily armored version of the standard 20-ton hull more suited to the needs of the military. As this design incorporates many military-grade components, a special license is required to purchase the craft. Needless to say, the improved performance of the LSP/CA-50 assault cutter in combat situations has prompted many mercenaries (particularly those equipped with Broadsword-class cruisers) to apply for the license. The assault cutter has a crew of pilot and gunner. It features a sealed body, total compartmentalization, basic stealth, and basic emission cloaking; an extra-heavy frame for its hull; and a single intrinsic coupling with explosive bolts for a 30-dtonmodule weighing up to 720 standard tons.

 

[Condottiere]

Not the default modular cutter.

Hundred and under tonnes, arguably under two hundred, one single hard point; Mongoose Second thirty five tonnes, two firmpoints, probably optimum, with enough space for a squad.

 

[Redcap]

Waitaminute.... COACC. Written and published by GDW as an MT supplement, and still Canon for MT. I have a copy in storage, but didn't it have design rules for air/orbital craft in it?

Ah, cancel that thought, inter-atmospherics only. Pity.

 

[Redcap]

So, back to main rules, yeah, the hardpoint rule is a pain. Can't even mount additional racks, afaics.

Is FF&S (TNE) backwards compatible to MT?

 

[Condottiere]

Not necessarily, since you could have a five tonne spacecraft be equipped with a full hardpoint.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Basic small assault boat:
Two man crew, 10 passengers or 5 Dton cargo.
Agility 6, heavy armour
One turret, 1.5 Dton free for other armaments.

GA-0206A01-E30000-20002-0       MCr 30,1          25 Dton
bearing     1     1   1                            Crew=2
batteries   1     1   1                             TL=14
                        Cargo=1 Fuel=2,5 EP=2,5 Agility=6

Dual Occupancy                                      1,5      30,1
                                     USP    #     Dton       Cost
Hull, Streamlined   Custom             0           25            
Configuration       Cone               2                      2,8
Armour              14                 E            3,8       6,4
                                                                 
Manoeuvre D                            6    1       4,3       2,1
Power Plant                           10    1       5        15  
Fuel, #J, #weeks    J-0, 4 weeks                    2,5          
                                                                 
Bridge                                                           
Computer            m/1                0    1       1         2  
                                                                 
Couch                                      12       6         0,3
                                                                 
Cargo                                               1,5          
                                                                 
Mixed Turret        Full                    1       1            
  Weapon            Missile            2    1                 0,8
  Weapon            Pulse              2    1                 0,5
  Weapon            Sand               3    1                 0,3
                                                                 
Nominal Cost        MCr 30,05            Sum:       1,5      30,1
Class Cost          MCr  6,31           Valid      ≥0          ≥0
Ship Cost           MCr 24,04

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Heavy assault boat
Two man crew, 25 passengers, 12.5 Dton cargo, or a grav tank.
Agility 6, heavy armour
One turret with a fusion gun, 2.5 Dton free for other armaments.

KA-0206A01-E00000-05002-0       MCr 57,9          50 Dton
bearing            1  1                            Crew=2
batteries          1  1                             TL=14
                            Cargo=2 Fuel=5 EP=5 Agility=6

Dual Occupancy                                      2,5      57,9
                                     USP    #     Dton       Cost
Hull, Streamlined   Custom             0           50            
Configuration       Cone               2                      5,5
Armour              14                 E            7,5      12,8
                                                                 
Manoeuvre D                            6    1       8,5       4,3
Power Plant                           10    1      10        30  
Fuel, #J, #weeks    J-0, 4 weeks                    5            
                                                                 
Bridge                                                           
Computer            m/1                0    1       1         2  
                                                                 
Couch                                      27      13,5       0,7
                                                                 
Cargo                                               2,5          
                                                                 
Mixed Turret        Full                    1       2            
  Weapon            Missile            2    1                 0,8
  Weapon            Fusion             5    1                 2  
                                                                 
Nominal Cost        MCr 57,93            Sum:       2,5      57,9
Class Cost          MCr 12,16           Valid      ≥0          ≥0
Ship Cost           MCr 46,34

 

[Redcap]

Ooooo close to being there

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but can a missile/bomb rack be placed onto this as well, in a nodding manner to the stubby winglets on the Hind-D?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Taking a lead from MT only space weapons needs hardpoints. Vehicle class weapons can be added as desired.

Browse Striker for hardware.


BTW at higher TLs missiles and bombs can easily be destroyed by point defence weapons, so are outdated. Energy weapons rule the high tech battlefield.

 

[Redcap]

Taking a lead from MT only space weapons needs hardpoints. Vehicle class weapons can be added as desired.

Browse Striker for hardware.


BTW at higher TLs missiles and bombs can easily be destroyed by point defence weapons, so are outdated. Energy weapons rule the high tech battlefield.

Huh. I've got Striker on PDF here Never thought of it, as it's been so long since I used it :rofl:

Hmm. I understand the thinking of missiles etc as being outdated and vulnerable to PD weapons, but in the close air support role, I think the'd still have utility due to the very short time frame at which to track target and destroy them. Thoughts?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Any Imperial craft will have PD capability and also reasonable armour.

You have to launch lots of missiles to overwhelm the PD, but they have to be large to carry a warhead heavy enough to penetrate armour (unless nukes), so you have to throw a lot of mass to kill each craft, it becomes a losing game. Energy weapons require no ammo, just energy which is cheap at high TL.


Striker is basically the source of the MT system, it has much of the same vehicle weapons as MT.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

MT gives us a lot of options.

Assault boat 20 Dton:
Two man crew, 25 passengers, 6 m³ cargo.
M-drive 4, agility 0, heavy armour
One space turret.
Five gun turrets (Heavy Fusion, 2 Pulse Fusion, 2 Pulse Laser PD).

 

[Redcap]

Any Imperial craft will have PD capability and also reasonable armour.

You have to launch lots of missiles to overwhelm the PD, but they have to be large to carry a warhead heavy enough to penetrate armour (unless nukes), so you have to throw a lot of mass to kill each craft, it becomes a losing game. Energy weapons require no ammo, just energy which is cheap at high TL.


Striker is basically the source of the MT system, it has much of the same vehicle weapons as MT.

I was thinking more along the lines of how the Hind-D was used in Afghanistan during the Soviet occupation, as a combination troop transport and ground attack/close air support unit, with strafing runs against the Mujaheddin forces; this was also how the helo was intended to be used if the Sovs had come over the IGB, but that's for T:2000

MT gives us a lot of options.

Assault boat 20 Dton:
Two man crew, 25 passengers, 6 m³ cargo.
M-drive 4, agility 0, heavy armour
One space turret.
Five gun turrets (Heavy Fusion, 2 Pulse Fusion, 2 Pulse Laser PD).

I'd replace the heavy and pulse fusion with rapid fire Fusion canon, personally, and leave the lasers as-is. Still not following how they're mounted, though?

 

[Redcap]

By the by, the project name for this craft will have the Imperial Navy reporting name (a bit like a real-world NATO recognition name!) of "Merihem", as in the Terran mythic creature that was a "purveyor of pestilence". Seemed somehow appropriate for what it will do, and the real world situation right now

 

[McPerth]

While it is MgT and TL15 (so not Zhodani), I guess the ships presented in this thread, as well as the whole discussion, may seem interesting for you.

I'm not sure if they could be converted to CT or MT TL 14, though...

 

[Redcap]

I'll have a look shortly, thanks

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I was thinking more along the lines of how the Hind-D was used in Afghanistan during the Soviet occupation, as a combination troop transport and ground attack/close air support unit, with strafing runs against the Mujaheddin forces; this was also how the helo was intended to be used if the Sovs had come over the IGB, but that's for T:2000

That is what the Pulse Fusion guns are for. Something like HMGs or autocannons.

I'd replace the heavy and pulse fusion with rapid fire Fusion canon, personally, and leave the lasers as-is. Still not following how they're mounted, though?

Pulse Fusion is the rapid fire version. Unfortunately I choose a too heavy Pulse Fusion gun, with a rather low RoF.

The heavy Fusion gun is useful to defeat grav tanks or other heavily armoured targets (like itself). But perhaps the space class 250 MW laser is enough...


They are mounted in:

Gun: Small weapon mount able to move to point at the target. Most typically installed in vehicles, a gun can be installed in a small moveable mount on a vehicle, also called a turret or a "gun turret" in these rules (this serves to differentiate these turrets from the larger hard point-based turret mount).

Something like a tank turret or IFV remote turret.