FFW (CT/MT): Zhodani equivalent to the Hind-D concept?

[AnotherDilbert]

Slightly updated:

Assault boat 20 Dton:
Two man crew, 25 passengers, 4 m3 cargo.
M-drive 6, agility 0, heavy armour
One space turret.
Five gun turrets (Heavy Fusion, 4 High RoF Pulse Fusion point defence capable).

 

[Redcap]

That is what the Pulse Fusion guns are for. Something like HMGs or autocannons.

Pulse Fusion is the rapid fire version. Unfortunately I choose a too heavy Pulse Fusion gun, with a rather low RoF.

The heavy Fusion gun is useful to defeat grav tanks or other heavily armoured targets (like itself). But perhaps the space class 250 MW laser is enough...

They are mounted in:

Something like a tank turret or IFV remote turret.

That's along the lines I was thinking of, yes (re Turret Lasers for anti-armour and established heavy bunkers, the fusion for anti-personnel and light bunkers).

Remote turrets, I think. Have you seen the US Navy's new Mk 6 patrol boats? All the major gunnery positions are on the bridge, and use remote control systems.

Slightly updated:

Assault boat 20 Dton:
Two man crew, 25 passengers, 4 m3 cargo.
M-drive 6, agility 0, heavy armour
One space turret.
Five gun turrets (Heavy Fusion, 4 High RoF Pulse Fusion point defence capable).

Now we're cooking with gas!

Yep, this looks good, many thanks

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Fine tuned:

Removed the heavy Fusion gun, since the space laser is better. Keeps the gunner requirement low.
Decreased the emergency gunnery station in the gun turrets to free up some space.
Removed the fiber-optic computers, since not needed.
Added Scoops and Collapsible tanks so it can scoop and transport a little fuel.
Enlarged the payload area to 69 m³ (5 Dton), enough for 30 people plus 9 m³ (perhaps 5-10 tonnes) of equipment.
Provided we can make the seating foldable, we can transport 5 Dton cargo or small vehicles.


Assault boat 20 Dton:
Two man crew, 30 passengers, 9 m3 cargo.
M-drive 6, agility 0, heavy armour
One space turret (PD capable).
Four gun turrets (4 High RoF Pulse Fusion point defence capable).

 

[AnotherDilbert]

And the cheap, low performance (sub-sonic) version. Price reduced from MCr 55 to MCr 36. Payload increased to 135 m³ (10 Dt), enough for 60 people and 15 m³ equipment, or perhaps a medium vehicle.

Assault boat 20 Dton:
Two man crew, 60 passengers, 15 m³ cargo.
M-drive 2, agility 0, heavy armour
One space turret (PD capable).
Four gun turrets (4 High RoF Pulse Fusion point defence capable).

 

[Redcap]

Awrighty... version time.

Merihem-A is the "cooking with gas" version, the first of these to be issued to the Fleet in around 1090 or so. It didn't see service in the 4th FW due to protracted roll-out issues.

Merihem-B is the low-performance (subsonic) job. It's what the Zhos sell to their client states atm.

Merihem-C is the one the Zhos currently have in-service (from about 1101) with bleeding edge fleets, and has seen extensive service in the FFW.

NONE of these have been seen by the 3I until the FFW.

Also - Wow, yeah, we be shifting now with the -C version

 

[Redcap]

Also, Merihem-C has space for a combat insertion of fifteen-man section of troops, this being three fire teams of 4 men, two heavy weapons gunners, and a Sect SNCO, in acceleration couches. Remove the couches and make is a bus ride, and you've got seats for 30

 

[Redcap]

Fine tuned:

Removed the heavy Fusion gun, since the space laser is better. Keeps the gunner requirement low.
Decreased the emergency gunnery station in the gun turrets to free up some space.
Removed the fiber-optic computers, since not needed.
Added Scoops and Collapsible tanks so it can scoop and transport a little fuel.
Enlarged the payload area to 69 m³ (5 Dton), enough for 30 people plus 9 m³ (perhaps 5-10 tonnes) of equipment.
Provided we can make the seating foldable, we can transport 5 Dton cargo or small vehicles.


Assault boat 20 Dton:
Two man crew, 30 passengers, 9 m3 cargo.
M-drive 6, agility 0, heavy armour
One space turret (PD capable).
Four gun turrets (4 High RoF Pulse Fusion point defence capable).

I'm having a hard time trying to visualise this for a deckplan.

Crew Station ... 2 ... 4m³ Roomy ... 8m³
Crew Station ... 30 .. 2m³ Cramped . 60m³

A little help on symbols for the 1.5m² squared deckplan?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

We are not in a starship, we can use lower decks than 3 m, perhaps as low as 2 m. That would make every 1.5 m square about 4.5 m³.

4.5 m³ is quite a lot, larger than the passenger compartment of a compact car. A human is about 0.1 m³.

Crew Station ... 2 ... 4m³ Roomy ... 8m³

That would be about one square per workstation.

Crew Station ... 30 .. 2m³ Cramped . 60m³

That would be two seats per square side-by-side, like in a car or aircraft but with a lot more legroom.


Regular aircraft or car seating would be about four seats per square, in a 2 × 2 grid, but with even less deck height, so even less volume.

 

[Redcap]

I've also had help on this aspect over on the FB group, see https://www.facebook.com/groups/travellerrpg/permalink/2929703597147796/

Short form: Every 1.5m square on the deck plan can hold two reasonably generous seats, sufficient for a pair of Zhodani wearing Trooper Model combat armour, with a basic combat load & equipment, to be secure, if not entirely comfortably. (Image from page 17 of GDW Alien Module 4 "Zhodani")

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I've also had help on this aspect over on the FB group, ...[/url]

Sorry, I don't do "social" spyware.

Short form: Every 1.5m square on the deck plan can hold two reasonably generous seats, sufficient for a pair of Zhodani wearing Trooper Model combat armour, with a basic combat load & equipment, to be secure, if not entirely comfortably. (Image from page 17 of GDW Alien Module 4 "Zhodani")

It's quite dependent on the chosen design system, most require lots of space per person. 1.5 m leg room is quite generous, like an airliner with every other seat row removed.

If we pack in people maximally, I think 1 human / m³ is reasonable even with vacc suit or armour. Won't leave much room to move around though. I've certainly been on military transports that packs in people much tighter for short trips.

 

[Redcap]

Sorry, I don't do "social" spyware.

Snorfl It's safe enough if you're careful about what you allow. But, to each their own

It's quite dependent on the chosen design system, most require lots of space per person. 1.5 m leg room is quite generous, like an airliner with every other seat row removed.

True; and given that this is modelled on the Hind-D, with back-to-back sideways-facing seating, it should work well

If we pack in people maximally, I think 1 human / m³ is reasonable even with vacc suit or armour. Won't leave much room to move around though. I've certainly been on military transports that packs in people much tighter for short trips.

That too (pokey and cramped conditions). Think Puma Helos, hell the Westland Scout too

 

[Redcap]

Version 1;

1dt of troop seating, seats 16 in Zhodani Trooper model combat armour.

Note back-to-back rows, two seats per 1.5m² square, seeat bases fold up out of the way when no-one is sitting in the seat.

Comments/suggestions?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

That is quite palatial compared to a Hind.

The passenger compartment of a Hind seems to be about 3 m L × 1.7 m W × 1.4 m H ≈ 7 m³, so roughly two squares long, one square wide, and one square high for a total of 0.5 Dt.

Data estimated from:
https://drawingdatabase.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/mi24_hind_ch1.png

 

[AnotherDilbert]

The Meriman-C has a passenger + cargo compartment of 69 m³, about ten times the Hind.

With a deck height of 2 m, that would be a floor area of 34.5 m². Each square is 1.5 m × 1.5 m = 2,25 m². The floor area is 34.5 m² / 2.25 m² ≈ 15 squares.


Something like (basic seating):

 

[Redcap]

That is quite palatial compared to a Hind.

The passenger compartment of a Hind seems to be about 3 m L × 1.7 m W × 1.4 m H ≈ 7 m³, so roughly two squares long, one square wide, and one square high for a total of 0.5 Dt.

Data estimated from:
https://drawingdatabase.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/mi24_hind_ch1.png

Good find on the diagram - I wouldn't have found that, most likely!

Wow, that's a tighter space than my wallet :O

 

[Redcap]

The Meriman-C has a passenger + cargo compartment of 69 m³, about ten times the Hind.

Strewth, I'd not clocked that there was that much difference :O

With a deck height of 2 m, that would be a floor area of 34.5 m². Each square is 1.5 m × 1.5 m = 2,25 m². The floor area is 34.5 m² / 2.25 m² ≈ 15 squares.

I'll be keeping the 3m deck height, purely for ease of use; the cargo area is a HELL of a lot larger than I'd previously visualised. This gives me some ideas, too.

Something like (basic seating):

Hmm. Interesting. More ideas coming

BTW - your diagram is a darn sight clearer than mine Nicely done

Gonna be busy this afternoon, but I'll likely post a few things later this evening

 

[Redcap]

I'm still having a hard time reconciling the crew station figures here.

pp82 of the MT Referee's Manual states:

The MegaTraveller ship/vehicle construction rules on pp.82 of the Referee's manual, states in step 6:

"6 Vehicle Crew Accommodations

Allocate vehicle crew positions

CREW POSITIONS
Access       Pwr     Vol      Weight      Price
-----------------------------------------------------
None         Nil      1.0      0.02         100
Cramped      Nil      2.0      0.02         100
Adequate     Nil      3.0      0.02         100
Roomy        Nil      4.0      0.02         100

One position required for each occupant. If occupants are expected
to spend more than 8 hours in the vehicle, double the above. If they
spend more than 24 hours in the vehicle, provide extended
accommodations (step 9); otherwise, go to step 10"

The spreadsheet figures result in:

Crew Station      2      4m[SUP]3[/SUP]      Roomy      =      8m[SUP]3[/SUP] = Zero tons
Crew Station      30     2m[SUP]3[/SUP]      Cramped   =       60m[SUP]3[/SUP] = 1 ton

Given that the standard height of a deck is 3m, I cannot fathom how a seat of any sort can work in the tiddly amount of floor area remaining?!

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Crew Station      2      4m[SUP]3[/SUP]      Roomy      =      8m[SUP]3[/SUP] = Zero tons
Crew Station      30     2m[SUP]3[/SUP]      Cramped   =       60m[SUP]3[/SUP] = 1 ton

Given that the standard height of a deck is 3m, I cannot fathom how a seat of any sort can work in the tiddly amount of floor area remaining?!

_8 m³ ≈ 0.6 Dton ≈ 1 square.
60 m³ ≈ 4.4 Dton ≈ 9 squares.

Crew stations are intended for vehicles and small craft, 3 m deck height not necessarily assumed. If needed stack people two high.

The "crew station" in a normal car is something like 0.7 m² ≈ 0.3 squares. Normal car or airline seating is something like 4-5 people per square.


The Hind packs in 8 equipped soldiers on about 3 m × 1.7 m, or about 4 people per square with some room left for access.


Seated people don't need very high ceilings. A vehicle designer is unlikely to waste a lot of space on very high ceilings. Even if the vehicle is 3 m high you can place some other component above or below the passenger compartment.

 

[Redcap]

_8 m³ ≈ 0.6 Dton ≈ 1 square.
60 m³ ≈ 4.4 Dton ≈ 9 squares.

(snip)

This is where I'm confused. The MT RG Ship deck plans (as an exo-atmospheric-capable Gig-like craft, this is one of those) rule states that 1 dton requires 2 (two) squares. I just can't get my head around how this is different.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

This is where I'm confused. The MT RG Ship deck plans (as an exo-atmospheric-capable Gig-like craft, this is one of those) rule states that 1 dton requires 2 (two) squares. I just can't get my head around how this is different.

MT RG? You mean Referee's Manual?

1 Dton = 13.5 m³.

60 m³ / 13.5 m³ = 4.444 Dton.

4.444 Dton × 2 squares/Dton ≈ 9 squares. This is assuming 3 m deck height.


3 m deck height is good for ships where people live, but too high for small craft and vehicles where people sit for awhile. Making a small craft less than 3 m high has the added bonus of making it fit on a single deck on a starship with 3 m deck height.

You don't have to use 3 m deck height, it's just good for humans and makes deck plans easy with 2 squares/Dton. E.g. K'kree ships presumably require higher ceilings.