FFW (CT/MT): Zhodani equivalent to the Hind-D concept?
- Thread starter Redcap
- Start date
AnotherDilbert
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!
While I think about it, what spreadsheet is that, that you were using to build the designs? (Yes, I know I said I hate maths, but I can't find anything remotely like Shipyard of Ships3 for MT design work, and I really need to find SOMETHING that simplifies things even a little for me!)
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
Right, hopefully, the final final FINAL (!) version of the Merihem-D plan layout.
Changes this version:
Changes this version:
- Added engineering, avionics, fuel etc spaces to diagram (in black).
- Dotted lines either side of middle fuselage indicate where the roof-mounted engineering spaces overhand the top of the side-fitted seal hatch doors (red and orange stripes are pained on the overhang underside as a 'Mind your head' warning!)
- Changes cockpit to provide actual room, and not a straw, for the crew to get into the cockpit from inside the ship.
- Increased overall cockpit height to reflect seat height, also raised the level of the pilot's plinth.
- Changes colour of cockpit glass to more easily realise the extent of 'glass'.
- Changed the symbol for seal hatch doors. Note that both side and rear doors camshell open, so that the lower 'halves' act as either steps (like the Hind-D) or a ramp (as in the Chinook).
- Added a couple of dimension notations.
I can't believe I didn't notice this before. We forgot the darned Fuel Purification system
There is some disagreement between CT Book 5 and the MT Referee's manual, however:
pp27 CT Book 5 1980 said:
pp83 MT Referee's manual said:
MT seems to indicate that a purification plant is not required for non-jump-capable craft, whereas CT sugests all fuel must be purified.
Which do we use?
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
Small craft don't need refined fuel, even in CT (HG, p34).
The scoops are basically intended to refuel a ship in orbit, without risking fire from the planet: The gig scoops some fuel, deliver it to the ship, the ship refines it and distributes it.
The scoops are basically intended to refuel a ship in orbit, without risking fire from the planet: The gig scoops some fuel, deliver it to the ship, the ship refines it and distributes it.
Yep, found it now, thanks. Have no idea how I missed it the first time
pp34 pp27 CT Book 5 1980 said:
Thanks again
OK, check me on this; the Merihem-D is, size-wise, about the size of a Chinook, but with teeth.
The Hind-D is about half the size of a Chinook, but with similar capabilities, all be it lesser capacities; Conclusion: we need a smaller craft, dammit.
I've messed about with Ships III, and arrived at a ten-ton hull design, using a model 2 computer, and an honest-to-god agility of 1 (rather than the more usual zero), however the limitations of Ships III means I can't stick on the bolt-on ground attack weapons, so I'm going to have to do that by hand.
So, we're going to wind up with TWO ships here, a Chinook, and a Hind. Can't say I'm unhappy
It also gives me much more scope to play with an adventure idea I've been working on recently :devil:
In the interim, here's the rough output thus far...
Now, it does need some tweaking here and there; while I specified a 50 HE Missile magazine, it seems there may be a glitch in the s/w, as the 50 rounds appear to have been omitted. Likewise, there doesn't appear to be facility to add a magazine for the sandcaster. Further, the ground weapons, as mentioned above, will have to be added by hand. Aside from that, it looks pretty much good to go as the smaller Hind-D that I wanted.
So, two Zhodani assault craft for the price of one, so to speak
The Hind-D is about half the size of a Chinook, but with similar capabilities, all be it lesser capacities; Conclusion: we need a smaller craft, dammit.
I've messed about with Ships III, and arrived at a ten-ton hull design, using a model 2 computer, and an honest-to-god agility of 1 (rather than the more usual zero), however the limitations of Ships III means I can't stick on the bolt-on ground attack weapons, so I'm going to have to do that by hand.
So, we're going to wind up with TWO ships here, a Chinook, and a Hind. Can't say I'm unhappy
It also gives me much more scope to play with an adventure idea I've been working on recently :devil:In the interim, here's the rough output thus far...
Code:
CRAFT ID: TL: 14
MCr80.411 (Gunboat)
HULL: 9/22, Displacement=10, Config=1A,
Armour=43G (1), Loaded=120.82, Unloaded=73.86
POWER: 0/0, Fusion-E=126.Mw Duration=24hrs/1 days
Extended Endurance=30hrs/1 days
Scoops
No purifiers
EM Mask
ExtEnd excludes: Maneuver (5g) Sensors Commo
EMMask Weapons & Screens
DRIVES: Jump=0 0/0, Avionics-21 450kph
Maneuver=6G 0/1 Agility=1
Speeds:
ATMOSPHERE MAX CRUISE
Vacc: 4,200kph/2,625mph 3,150kph/1,969mph
Standard: 3,780kph/2,363mph 2,835kph/1,772mph
Thin: 5,670kph/3,544mph 4,253kph/2,658mph
Dense: 2,835kph/1,772mph 2,126kph/1,329mph
Very dense 945kph/591mph 709kph/443mph
COMMUNICATIONS: Radio-Syst x 2
Radio Jammer-Syst x 1
Laser-Syst x 1
Maser-Syst x 1
SENSORS: A-EMS (FrOb) x 1
A-EMS Jammer (FrOb) x 1
P-EMS (IntPlnt) x 1
Low-Dnst-E (100m) x 1
Hi-Dnst-E (250m) x 1
Neutrino-E (10 Kw) x 1
Radar (FrOb) x 1
Radar Jammer (FrOb) x 1
Ladar (FrOb) x 1
Sensor scans: AOS=R AOP=R POS=R POP=R PES=S PEP=R
WEAPONS: 1 hardpoints; 0 occupied; batteries bearing 100 %
Missile magazine: HE=50 b/r
Total=0 missiles. 1 b/r=0 missiles
SCREENS: DefDM= 5
CONTROL: Computer=Model 2 x 3, Panels=Holographic Linked x 482
HUD holo x 2
Basic Env(heat/light
Basic LS (air/water)
Ext LS (food/recyc)
Airlock x 1
Grav plates
Inertial Comp
CREW: Crew=22
Bridge=1 Gunners=1 Troops=20
ACCOMMODATION:
OTHER: Cargo=46Kl/3 tons, EMLevel=Faint
Fuel=1 Kl/0 tons, ObjSize=Average
Anti-hijack:
HIGH GUARD: 0106522-100000-00000-0
TCJMPCC-ASMNGR-LEPMI-F Weapons reflected are highest values.
Designed by SHIPS for Windows III v 17.14 on 28 May 2020Now, it does need some tweaking here and there; while I specified a 50 HE Missile magazine, it seems there may be a glitch in the s/w, as the 50 rounds appear to have been omitted. Likewise, there doesn't appear to be facility to add a magazine for the sandcaster. Further, the ground weapons, as mentioned above, will have to be added by hand. Aside from that, it looks pretty much good to go as the smaller Hind-D that I wanted.
So, two Zhodani assault craft for the price of one, so to speak
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
The magazine seems to be specified in battery-rounds, i.e. all the missiles you can launch in a single round. Since you have no missile launchers, you can't launch any missiles and 50 rounds of missiles is still 0 missiles.
I would not use that software... It uses TL-21 components (avionics), miscalculates needed control panels, uses an M-drive in a hull that is too small.
It has no crew accommodations, you need to add Crew Stations. There is space since the cargo hold is large.
The power plant is too small to support ground scale fusion guns. It certainly does not have power enough for Agility 1. Note that Agility is only used in space combat, so not much use for a ground oriented craft.
I can't get even close to the cost or mass of the craft, so something seems off...
Note that you have selected much less armour than I used on my craft. That is perhaps appropriate for a Hind, but it will be vulnerable to medium weapons that my version shrugged off.
Bugger.
The avionics is likely my fault, I'll check that. I'd noticed the number of panels, though.
I was under the impression it did that automatically. Plainly, that isn't the case. Thanks.
Good point on agility. Huh. Yeah, looking at the MT charts in the Ref's Manual, no kidding, they're HUNGRY
...interesting...
I added what I thought was a +1 armour modifier. Guess not
OK, have to update the copy of LibreOffice Calc, (I'll do the entire damn L.O. suite while I'm at it), and then I'll have another go with the spreadsheet
TTFN
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
I added what I thought was a +1 armour modifier. Guess not
Quite, it has armour 43, which is armour DM +1 in space combat.
My version used armour 70 (DM +10 in space).
The ground combat system uses the armour value directly and compares it with weapon penetration.
Armour 70 stops everything but the heaviest fusion guns and space weapons. Armour 40 is only proof against infantry weapons such as FGMPs. Even current anti-tank weapons could probably penetrate.
Thanks to my maths problems (it's called Dyscalculia, and I make no apologies for it. I'm cursed with it), this is going to revert to a CT Book 5 design, using High Guard Ship v3.
Code:
Ship: ZN Number
Class: Hind-D
Type: Assault gig
Architect: Roger Stenning
Tech Level: 14
USP
GS-0104511-130000-20002-0 MCr 13.660 20 Tons
Bat Bear 1 1 1 Crew: 18
Bat 1 1 1 TL: 14
Cargo: 0.400 Crew Sections: 1 of 18 Fuel: 1 EP: 1 Agility: 0 Pulse Lasers
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops
Architects Fee: MCr 0.137 Cost in Quantity: MCr 10.928
Detailed Description
(High Guard Design)
HULL
20.000 tons standard, 280.000 cubic meters, Needle/Wedge Configuration
CREW
1 Pilot, 1 Gunner, 16 Troops
ENGINEERING
Jump-0, 4G Manoeuvre, Power plant-5, 1.000 EP, Agility 0
AVIONICS
Bridge, Model/1 Computer
HARDPOINTS
1 Hardpoint
ARMAMENT
1 Triple Mixed Turret with: 1 Pulse Laser (Factor-2), 1 Missile Rack (Factor-2).
DEFENCES
1 Sandcaster in the Mixed Turret, organised into 1 Battery (Factor-3),
Armoured Hull (Factor-1)
CRAFT
None
FUEL
0.036 Tons Fuel (0 parsecs jump and 1 days endurance)
On Board Fuel Scoops, No Fuel Purification Plant
MISCELLANEOUS
18 Acceleration Couches, 0.400 Ton Cargo
USER DEFINED COMPONENTS
None
COST
MCr 13.797 Singly (incl. Architects fees of MCr 0.137), MCr 10.928 in Quantity
CONSTRUCTION TIME
11 Weeks Singly, 9 Weeks in QuantityAnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
Nice and cheap, but with almost no armour, agility, or computer it’s more of a victim than an assault heli.
I would ditch the bridge and replace it with maximum armour, it’s the same tonnage. It gives it some survivability.
Don’t forget some collapsible tanks to give it some extra utility.
Note: less than one Dton fuel is not allowed in HG.
The bridge contains two seats for the crew, you only need 16 couches for the troops.
I would ditch the bridge and replace it with maximum armour, it’s the same tonnage. It gives it some survivability.
Don’t forget some collapsible tanks to give it some extra utility.
Note: less than one Dton fuel is not allowed in HG.
The bridge contains two seats for the crew, you only need 16 couches for the troops.
This was a Q&D job, refinements/alterations to follow. I may wind up increasing the tonnage to 25 or 30 tons, or downsizing it a bit to 10 tons to a more Hind-like size, rather than a Chinook
We'll see.I'd seen that; what would it do to the pilot and gunner cockpit?
Not just yet; I want to get the firm aspects up first, I can fiddle with dismountables later
Yeah, that's a PITA, and no mistake. No real way around it in HG, sadly. I'll just have to live with it.
I might reduce that further. The specs for the Hind-D give room for what we in the UK call a Section (2 x 4-man fire teams). I may reduce it to that. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-24#Specifications_(Mi-24)
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
Without a bridge the crew needs an acceleration couch each.
