BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
Not having a copy of FFW how much area is covered by these 2 Regular BatRons and 6 Regular CruRons?
Fleets, IN organization, and general TO&E.
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BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
This is true. Not all bases are created equal. However, given the resources of a Sector, or even just a SubSector the concept of having just 44 Capital ships in an area as big as the Spinward Marches seems a bit ludicris. Especially given the cold war atmosphere between the Imperium and the OutWorld Coalition.
Now if we average one Capital ship Squadron per Naval base that is the 53 Squadrons. Because while some Naval Bases might have no Capital ship Squadrons, but be a staging area for Merchant Convoys or a homeport for a DesRon, some of those bases are going to have more than one Squadron of Capital ships. (Plus Colonial Fleets of course.) Mora and Rhylanor come immediately to mind.
Taking Glisten Subsector. Using TCS and only using two-three years production, instead of the recommended 10, you still come up with 3 BatRons, 6 Crurons, (And these are 8 ship Squadrons) 18 DesRons, 36 Destroyer Escort Flotillas and numerous Couriers, Fleet Auxillaries, SDBs, a Couple of Fleet Carriers and Fighters and a bunch of other stuff. And Glisten doesn't have nearly the population of Mora, Trin's Veil, Rhylanor or Regina. (Even including the Imperial planets in District 268 and Pax Rulin subsectors, which Glisten is responsible for.)
So I definitely can't see there only being 44 Capital ships in the Spinward Marches Sector Navy. Based on those numbers I would say that 53 4 ship squadrons is a bit small.
Supplement 9 says there are 4 BatRons of Kokkiraks and one of Tigress in the Spinward Marches. (Or something like that. I don't have it in front of me.) It does say one is the most numerous type and the other is the biggest type in the region but it doesn't say that is all there is. That is 5 out of the 11 BatRons I would deploy based on number of bases available. Doesn't seem a stretch to me.
Now if we average one Capital ship Squadron per Naval base that is the 53 Squadrons. Because while some Naval Bases might have no Capital ship Squadrons, but be a staging area for Merchant Convoys or a homeport for a DesRon, some of those bases are going to have more than one Squadron of Capital ships. (Plus Colonial Fleets of course.) Mora and Rhylanor come immediately to mind.
Taking Glisten Subsector. Using TCS and only using two-three years production, instead of the recommended 10, you still come up with 3 BatRons, 6 Crurons, (And these are 8 ship Squadrons) 18 DesRons, 36 Destroyer Escort Flotillas and numerous Couriers, Fleet Auxillaries, SDBs, a Couple of Fleet Carriers and Fighters and a bunch of other stuff. And Glisten doesn't have nearly the population of Mora, Trin's Veil, Rhylanor or Regina. (Even including the Imperial planets in District 268 and Pax Rulin subsectors, which Glisten is responsible for.)
So I definitely can't see there only being 44 Capital ships in the Spinward Marches Sector Navy. Based on those numbers I would say that 53 4 ship squadrons is a bit small.
Supplement 9 says there are 4 BatRons of Kokkiraks and one of Tigress in the Spinward Marches. (Or something like that. I don't have it in front of me.) It does say one is the most numerous type and the other is the biggest type in the region but it doesn't say that is all there is. That is 5 out of the 11 BatRons I would deploy based on number of bases available. Doesn't seem a stretch to me.
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
FFW covers all of Regina subsector, almost all of Jewell, Vilis, and Lanth subsectors, with a substantial chunk of Rhylanor subsector, and a small piece of Aramis subsector. I count 78 Imperial worlds in this space (not including Esalin or the interdicted systems), with 17 naval bases among them.
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
So call it 4? out of 11 Subsectors and 17 out of 53 Naval Bases. Interesting. About 1/3rd of the Spinward Marches. If it were representative and major fleet elements weren't drawn someplace else before the war actually kicked off that would put the Spinward Marches at about half of the Strength I was suggesting.
Or of course the forward SubSectors were left light and the Subsectors to the rear were heavier for a counter offensive. Or these are 8 ship squadrons, advocated by Supp 9, as opposed to the 4 ship squadrons, advocated by FSOTSI and Gateway.
I wish it was more complete.
Does the game start on Day one of the war?
Thanks OZ. Something to think about.
Or of course the forward SubSectors were left light and the Subsectors to the rear were heavier for a counter offensive. Or these are 8 ship squadrons, advocated by Supp 9, as opposed to the 4 ship squadrons, advocated by FSOTSI and Gateway.
I wish it was more complete.
Does the game start on Day one of the war?
Thanks OZ. Something to think about.
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
Yes, the game starts with Day One, and even has special rules for the Zhodani surprise attack.
I believe that the squadrons in the game are 8-ship squadrons as the game was created during the time of CT and Supp. #9. I seem to recall someone doing an analysis of FFW units to determine the type and number of ships in each counter, but I can't remember where. Does anyone else?
I believe that the squadrons in the game are 8-ship squadrons as the game was created during the time of CT and Supp. #9. I seem to recall someone doing an analysis of FFW units to determine the type and number of ships in each counter, but I can't remember where. Does anyone else?
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
OK FSOTSI and the Rebellion Sourcebook, specify 5 types of Squadrons that make up a numbered fleet. BatRons, CruRons, AssaultRons, ScoutRons and TankRons. Further it states that there are 2-10 Squadrons per Numbered Fleet. Generally 1 numbered Fleet per Subsector. (Corridor and Capital being the stated exceptions.) It also states that each Naval Base is home to a Squadron. So according to that there are 53 Squadrons in the Spinward Marches fleet. (Plus the reserve fleet.)
Now that makes sense in a practical sense but contradicts what it says in the Gateway Sourcebook. THough in the Ley Sector there are only 12 Naval Bases and 1 Depot.
Any of the authors notice this?
Now that makes sense in a practical sense but contradicts what it says in the Gateway Sourcebook. THough in the Ley Sector there are only 12 Naval Bases and 1 Depot.
Any of the authors notice this?
Interesting to note that canon provides the following classes of ships:
Battleships
Battleriders
Battletenders
Carriers
Cruisers
Destroyers
Escorts
Scouts/Couriers
Tankers
Troop Transports
Others which obviously MUST exist to support other elements of the setting:
Supply ships
- BatRons can be BB's, BR/BT's, or possibly also CV's, but many players call the last of these CarRons.
- AssRons (Assault Squadrons) are Troop Transports
- CruRons are Cruisers
- TankRons are Tankers
- ScoutRons are Scout Service vessels; mostly non-significant ships, basically jump-capable fighters for big battle purposes, and lame at that!
FSotSI says that all have resupply vessels attached. It specifically includes escorts in the BatRon, but not the CruRons. CruRons have a nummber of auxillaries, but dose not mention escorts. AssaultRons and TankRons are usually mono-typical organizations, each comprised of matching vessels. Scoutrons are not even deplyed as such.
Now, there are three potential models for Destroyers and Escorts:
1) included in the extant squadron types (Pretty Much what FSotSI says)
2) Attached but separate 'Rons
3) Independant 'Rons
Now, IMTU, I've always assumed each batron (Rider or BB based) has a desron and two esrons attached, each of 2x and 3x the number of ships as the BatRon, even tho this is NOT the model presented; I use option 2. I assume either 1/2 DesRon, or 1 DesRon, and 1 EsRon per CruRon, again, same sizes; using the designations from CT.
Now, that being said, IT APPEARS that model 1 is the OTU, but FSotSI is not a terifically credible source (the ships themselves are broken badly).
ISTR that the CT LD supps mention DesRons. Perhaps Independant DesRons are phasing out in the 1110's???
Likewise, it would be interesting to consider the effects of the various DesRons and EsRons of ships not covered.
as RS would say, "Food for Thought."
Battleships
Battleriders
Battletenders
Carriers
Cruisers
Destroyers
Escorts
Scouts/Couriers
Tankers
Troop Transports
Others which obviously MUST exist to support other elements of the setting:
Supply ships
- BatRons can be BB's, BR/BT's, or possibly also CV's, but many players call the last of these CarRons.
- AssRons (Assault Squadrons) are Troop Transports
- CruRons are Cruisers
- TankRons are Tankers
- ScoutRons are Scout Service vessels; mostly non-significant ships, basically jump-capable fighters for big battle purposes, and lame at that!
FSotSI says that all have resupply vessels attached. It specifically includes escorts in the BatRon, but not the CruRons. CruRons have a nummber of auxillaries, but dose not mention escorts. AssaultRons and TankRons are usually mono-typical organizations, each comprised of matching vessels. Scoutrons are not even deplyed as such.
Now, there are three potential models for Destroyers and Escorts:
1) included in the extant squadron types (Pretty Much what FSotSI says)
2) Attached but separate 'Rons
3) Independant 'Rons
Now, IMTU, I've always assumed each batron (Rider or BB based) has a desron and two esrons attached, each of 2x and 3x the number of ships as the BatRon, even tho this is NOT the model presented; I use option 2. I assume either 1/2 DesRon, or 1 DesRon, and 1 EsRon per CruRon, again, same sizes; using the designations from CT.
Now, that being said, IT APPEARS that model 1 is the OTU, but FSotSI is not a terifically credible source (the ships themselves are broken badly).
ISTR that the CT LD supps mention DesRons. Perhaps Independant DesRons are phasing out in the 1110's???
Likewise, it would be interesting to consider the effects of the various DesRons and EsRons of ships not covered.
as RS would say, "Food for Thought."
Depends on the number of numbered fleets in the sector. Ignoring the reserve fleets, the Imperium has an average of 62.5 combat vessels (cruisers and up) per numbered fleet. (Note, this number is based on the average of 1000 ships per sector mentioned in Rebellion Sourcebook. I've chosen to interpret that as 1000 ships per ideal sector of 16 subsectors; other interpretations are possible).
The standard size of a squadron is 4-8 ships (plus support vessels, but as auxiliaries is specifically not included in the 1000 ship figure, we can ignore them). So an average fleet would have roughly 8-16 squadrons. I can't find the file with my notes about the proportions of BatRons to CruRons, but I remember I based them on the proportion of BatRon to CruRons in the 5FW boardgame.
[Comments about Gateway's figures deleted again...
]Hans
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
CT Supplement 9 specifically mentioned that the new Midu Agashaam class DD was being deployed in "oversized squadrons of ten to twenty vessels" which tells us that escorts are normally deployed in squadrons, which normally have fewer than 10 ships each (probably 8 ships each, just like the big boys).
I have always thought (and said somewhere else before) that a "BatRon" as seen in FFW comprises the Battle Squadron itself, plus a number of escort squadrons, plus any other support ships as needed. In casual usage, referring to a "BatRon" includes the escorts and supports.
I have always thought (and said somewhere else before) that a "BatRon" as seen in FFW comprises the Battle Squadron itself, plus a number of escort squadrons, plus any other support ships as needed. In casual usage, referring to a "BatRon" includes the escorts and supports.
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
FSOTSI and The Rebellion SOurcebook don't specify that other Squadron types don't exist it says there are 5 major Squadron types. Most Navies count Capital ships and leave escorts and others as also rans. In Traveller, given the cost disparity between a 30+Kton Light Cruiser or larger and a 5KTon Destroyer one would think you would have lots of Destroyers and lighter craft running around but in the grand scheme of things the small ships don't amount to much. Each of the 5 Major Squadron Types is talking about ships greater than 30Ktons.
In MTU I agree the escorts have a role and a place. Especially given the preponderance of small Merchantmen and for that matter small Corsairs, Destroyers, Destroyer Escorts, Corvettes, and Close Escorts exist in large numbers. Generally, per "Squadron" of the larger ship types, 2 Destroyer Flotillas (And Fleet Escorts are lumped into this group.) 4 Destroyer Escort Flotillas (in the 1000 Ton range) and 4 Corvette Flotillas (In the less than 1000 Ton range) are built.
However when it really counts, when the fecal matter impacts the oscillating propeller, what really counts is how many ships in the "carry a Spinal Mount size" range are available. Any ship in that range whether it has a Spinal or not in MTU are Capital ships or Capital Auxillaries. (And the difference is the Spinal because Carriers in MTU are classified as Auxillaries.)
A similar situation in Earth History occurred several times. For example during the Interwar period there were limitations on how many Battleships each country could produce and there were limits on what constituted a Cruiser. But nobody really cared how many Destroyers anyone had. (And AirCraft Carriers were largely ignored.) During WWII, in the Pacific it got to the point where the only ship that counted was the Aircraft Carrier. Everything else was a sideshow or in support of Carrier operations. During the Cold War the ships that counted were Carriers and Nuclear Subs, especially Ballistic Missile Nuclear Subs.
Technology changes how we look at ships. But the ships that generally get looked at are the ones that make a difference in a Fleet engagement or the ones that make up a significant cost to the enemy's war effort.
In MTU I agree the escorts have a role and a place. Especially given the preponderance of small Merchantmen and for that matter small Corsairs, Destroyers, Destroyer Escorts, Corvettes, and Close Escorts exist in large numbers. Generally, per "Squadron" of the larger ship types, 2 Destroyer Flotillas (And Fleet Escorts are lumped into this group.) 4 Destroyer Escort Flotillas (in the 1000 Ton range) and 4 Corvette Flotillas (In the less than 1000 Ton range) are built.
However when it really counts, when the fecal matter impacts the oscillating propeller, what really counts is how many ships in the "carry a Spinal Mount size" range are available. Any ship in that range whether it has a Spinal or not in MTU are Capital ships or Capital Auxillaries. (And the difference is the Spinal because Carriers in MTU are classified as Auxillaries.)
A similar situation in Earth History occurred several times. For example during the Interwar period there were limitations on how many Battleships each country could produce and there were limits on what constituted a Cruiser. But nobody really cared how many Destroyers anyone had. (And AirCraft Carriers were largely ignored.) During WWII, in the Pacific it got to the point where the only ship that counted was the Aircraft Carrier. Everything else was a sideshow or in support of Carrier operations. During the Cold War the ships that counted were Carriers and Nuclear Subs, especially Ballistic Missile Nuclear Subs.
Technology changes how we look at ships. But the ships that generally get looked at are the ones that make a difference in a Fleet engagement or the ones that make up a significant cost to the enemy's war effort.
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
FSOTSI calls a Squadron based around a Carrier a CruRon(Carrier). (And it has one Fleet Carrier.)
Interesting to note that the addition of bay mesons to a battle can TRULY disrupt effective fire, especially if said fire is against non- or poorly- meson screened targets.
Those DesRons and EsRons robably (if even only 1 desron per Batron) probably add a considerable ammount of system-attrition.
Those DesRons and EsRons robably (if even only 1 desron per Batron) probably add a considerable ammount of system-attrition.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
The only trouble with that is meson bays have a hard time hitting anything with a high agility
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
Meson bays also use a large number of energy points (speaking in CT/HG terms), which most smaller ships can't afford. But from what Bhoins said earlier, in T20 meson bays are the way to go.
I'm curious, in T20 is it much harder to hit (and penetrate) a target with a meson bay than it is using a spinal meson weapon? It should be, as Sigg said it should be very difficult for a meson bay to hit a high-Agility target, and it should be near impossible to penetrate even a weak meson screen without a serious computer advantage.
Sigg: I think that we have enough to do some serious battle testing. Between your proposed damage rule and my ideas about meson screens and spinal meson "turrets" big ships should be much more viable. Now for some testing to see just how much more viable.
As a test/joke, I decided to see how far I could go with spinal meson "turrets" and designed a 100,000 battle rider at TL15. I put in a factor-T for a spinal mount and still had room for 10 factor-J "turrets." And this ship had Agility-6, Armor-15, and backups for everything. It was a little light in secondary weapons, though. Now to design a battle tender to carry it....
I'm curious, in T20 is it much harder to hit (and penetrate) a target with a meson bay than it is using a spinal meson weapon? It should be, as Sigg said it should be very difficult for a meson bay to hit a high-Agility target, and it should be near impossible to penetrate even a weak meson screen without a serious computer advantage.
Sigg: I think that we have enough to do some serious battle testing. Between your proposed damage rule and my ideas about meson screens and spinal meson "turrets" big ships should be much more viable. Now for some testing to see just how much more viable.
As a test/joke, I decided to see how far I could go with spinal meson "turrets" and designed a 100,000 battle rider at TL15. I put in a factor-T for a spinal mount and still had room for 10 factor-J "turrets." And this ship had Agility-6, Armor-15, and backups for everything. It was a little light in secondary weapons, though. Now to design a battle tender to carry it....
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
How about a new thread which collects together all of the High Guard variants that have come up?
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
In T20 Starship combat the to hit roll is generally a given, especially for larger factored weapons. The to hit proceedures are simply Take the weapon factor, add it to the gunnery skill, (modified by any appropiate feats) add it to the Computer model number, (If your sensor operator can make his roll, if not there is no penality.) plus your commander's Intel/Wisdom bonus (whichever is higher) or 1/3rd his leadership skill roll plus a D20. You roll this against the Targets Armor Class. Which can't be higher, at TL 15, than 32. And the only way to get 32 is a small craft, with an agility of 6 and 15 points of armor. A ship, between 10 KTons and 99.999 KTons can't, at TL-15, be higher than 29, Bigger ships can't be higher than 27. Now against a Meson weapon the Armor doesn't count but your Meson Screen does. So a ship with a factor 9 meson screen will be AC 26 (If you can fit a factor 9 meson screen into a fighter), 23 or 21. (Same size ranges.) (-6 to +5 depending on configuration.)
The average gunner, according to the THB, has an 11 point gunnery skill. So a factor 9 Meson Bay a gunnery skill of 11 and a Leader with a leadership skill of 10 means you are rolling 23+ a D20 (Possibly plus your Computer model number. If your squadron commander has Fleet Tactics and you are in communication with the flag ship, plus his wis/int bonus.)
So shooting at a dispersed structure 75KTon Cruiser with a Factor 9 Meson screen and an agility of 6, you would need to roll a 5 to hit on a D20. If you roll a 15 or better then it is a Critical Threat, you then reroll to hit and if you roll a regular hit again it is a Critical hit. This is important because the normal hit is going to do 9D20 of damage + 9D12 of Radiation damage. YOu subtract one dice for each level of meson screen, starting from the lowest die until you are left with one die, then any remaining screen value is subtracted from the score on the highest die. (In this case -1 from the highest die.) Further, reading the Rules, it says that a Nuclear damper reduces the Radiation damage. So you will roll 9 D12, take the highest one, subtract 10, assuming factor 9 Nuclear dampers, and that is how many points of Radiation damage you do. Plus 9D20, take the highest die and subtract 1 and that is how much structural damage you do. If either of those hits does damage you also roll on the internal damage tables. (Once for each.)
Now on a Crit, Armor is ignored for reducing damage. (And Meson Screens are considered Armor against a Meson hit.) Further damage is multiplied by the Crit Multiplier. (In the case of a Meson weapon the crit multiplier is x10) Or 9D20 x10. + 9D12 x 10. Though whether Radiation damage is multiplied and or counts against the structure of the ship is unclear in the THB.
Now Spinal mounts A is 24 +D20, B is 25 +D20 and C is 26+ D20. A Factor D Meson Spinal to hit roll is 27 +D20. But a 1 is always a miss. (And against any capital ship that means anything bigger than C hits on a roll of 2+ regardless of screen and configuration) Spinal Mesons do a flat 16D20 (+16D12 Radiation) damage and critical threat is 5 points less or 10+ on the die followed by a to hit roll of 2+ and the damage destroys everything under 500,000 tons without including the Radiation damage, and renders anything under 8,000,000 tons a drifting but repairable hulk. (Again that is ignoring the radiation damage.)
A Normal hit (Which happens 47.5% of the time) is going to do your highest 7D20 out of 16 dice damage plus your highest D12-2 out of 16D12 radiation damage. (With the same assumptions of Meson screen 9 Nuclear Dampers 9.)
That is a snapshot of how T20 amd Meson weapons works. Mounting multiple Spinals is definitely overkill. 6 Factor 9 Meson Bays is likely to vaporize anything you might want to shoot at and 3 factor 9 meson bays are likely to bring even a Tigress to less than 0 SI. 2 Spinal Mesons is likely to kill anything you might want to shoot at. (If one Crits and the other doesn't you still vaporize a Tigress ignoring your radiation damage.)
For starship design, T20 is equivalent to HG. If you design a ship in HG it basically directly ports to T20. Combat on the other hand is obviously different.
The average gunner, according to the THB, has an 11 point gunnery skill. So a factor 9 Meson Bay a gunnery skill of 11 and a Leader with a leadership skill of 10 means you are rolling 23+ a D20 (Possibly plus your Computer model number. If your squadron commander has Fleet Tactics and you are in communication with the flag ship, plus his wis/int bonus.)
So shooting at a dispersed structure 75KTon Cruiser with a Factor 9 Meson screen and an agility of 6, you would need to roll a 5 to hit on a D20. If you roll a 15 or better then it is a Critical Threat, you then reroll to hit and if you roll a regular hit again it is a Critical hit. This is important because the normal hit is going to do 9D20 of damage + 9D12 of Radiation damage. YOu subtract one dice for each level of meson screen, starting from the lowest die until you are left with one die, then any remaining screen value is subtracted from the score on the highest die. (In this case -1 from the highest die.) Further, reading the Rules, it says that a Nuclear damper reduces the Radiation damage. So you will roll 9 D12, take the highest one, subtract 10, assuming factor 9 Nuclear dampers, and that is how many points of Radiation damage you do. Plus 9D20, take the highest die and subtract 1 and that is how much structural damage you do. If either of those hits does damage you also roll on the internal damage tables. (Once for each.)
Now on a Crit, Armor is ignored for reducing damage. (And Meson Screens are considered Armor against a Meson hit.) Further damage is multiplied by the Crit Multiplier. (In the case of a Meson weapon the crit multiplier is x10) Or 9D20 x10. + 9D12 x 10. Though whether Radiation damage is multiplied and or counts against the structure of the ship is unclear in the THB.
Now Spinal mounts A is 24 +D20, B is 25 +D20 and C is 26+ D20. A Factor D Meson Spinal to hit roll is 27 +D20. But a 1 is always a miss. (And against any capital ship that means anything bigger than C hits on a roll of 2+ regardless of screen and configuration) Spinal Mesons do a flat 16D20 (+16D12 Radiation) damage and critical threat is 5 points less or 10+ on the die followed by a to hit roll of 2+ and the damage destroys everything under 500,000 tons without including the Radiation damage, and renders anything under 8,000,000 tons a drifting but repairable hulk. (Again that is ignoring the radiation damage.)
A Normal hit (Which happens 47.5% of the time) is going to do your highest 7D20 out of 16 dice damage plus your highest D12-2 out of 16D12 radiation damage. (With the same assumptions of Meson screen 9 Nuclear Dampers 9.)
That is a snapshot of how T20 amd Meson weapons works. Mounting multiple Spinals is definitely overkill. 6 Factor 9 Meson Bays is likely to vaporize anything you might want to shoot at and 3 factor 9 meson bays are likely to bring even a Tigress to less than 0 SI. 2 Spinal Mesons is likely to kill anything you might want to shoot at. (If one Crits and the other doesn't you still vaporize a Tigress ignoring your radiation damage.)
For starship design, T20 is equivalent to HG. If you design a ship in HG it basically directly ports to T20. Combat on the other hand is obviously different.
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
<my mind boggles . . .>
Bhoins,
There isn't anything simple about that.
I do have some question, though.
Ok, there are 9d20. One dice is subtracted per each level of meson screen. Nine levels of meson screen would apear, to me, to reduce that to 1d20. This makes it seem like meson bays do relatively little damage, even with a crit., vs. meson screen nine.
italics added by me
Is there an explanation for why nuclear dampers don't work the same way as meson screens by subtracting one die per screen level (as opposed to screen level + 1 subtracted from the largest radiation damage dice)?
This does not apear to be the same damage reduction for nuclear dampers as described above (screen level + 1 subtracted from the largest radiation damage dice).Can you clarify this for me?
T20 Armor:
Roll the full damage. Remove 1 die of damage (the lowest, to be specific) per level of armor, until only one die remains (which is by definition the highest), and left over armor becomms a straight dm-1 on that, per level left.
Both Meson Screens and Dampers affect the radiation.
In short, meson guns do hideous amounts of damage. And if you get a screens-1 crit, ouch.
Roll the full damage. Remove 1 die of damage (the lowest, to be specific) per level of armor, until only one die remains (which is by definition the highest), and left over armor becomms a straight dm-1 on that, per level left.
Both Meson Screens and Dampers affect the radiation.
In short, meson guns do hideous amounts of damage. And if you get a screens-1 crit, ouch.
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
OK Not simple until you get used to it.
To make it easier to understand unless it is a ship that is difficult to hit with a high Agility, a Meson Screen 9 and a HG difficult to pen Hull config then hits are virtually guaranteed.
THe Radiation damage is decreeased by both the Meson Screen and the Nuclear Damper. 1 die per point of screen then when you are left with one die one point from that die for each remaining point of screen. Dice are removed from lowest to highest. When it comes to radiation damage both screens reduce the damage so it is reduced (when maxed out) by a factor of 18.
Here is the big difference. A Crit ignores armor so isn't reduced by the screens. On a Meson weapon it is then multiplied by 10. So it is 90D20 + 90D12 reduced by nothing! (And against a typical target it is more than 33% chance to score a crit with a bay and about 52.5% chance to score a crit with a spinal.) Even a 50T Meson Bay factor 4 is going to average (On a crit) 420 points of SI normal damage and 260 of radiation damage. A 7000 Ton ship is 425 points of SI. (4D20x10)
Does that help clarify it?
Bhoins,
There isn't anything simple about that.
I do have some question, though.
italics added by me
This does not apear to be the same damage reduction for nuclear dampers as described above (screen level + 1 subtracted from the largest radiation damage dice).
Can you clarify this for me? </font>[/QUOTE]
To make it easier to understand unless it is a ship that is difficult to hit with a high Agility, a Meson Screen 9 and a HG difficult to pen Hull config then hits are virtually guaranteed.
THe Radiation damage is decreeased by both the Meson Screen and the Nuclear Damper. 1 die per point of screen then when you are left with one die one point from that die for each remaining point of screen. Dice are removed from lowest to highest. When it comes to radiation damage both screens reduce the damage so it is reduced (when maxed out) by a factor of 18.
Here is the big difference. A Crit ignores armor so isn't reduced by the screens. On a Meson weapon it is then multiplied by 10. So it is 90D20 + 90D12 reduced by nothing! (And against a typical target it is more than 33% chance to score a crit with a bay and about 52.5% chance to score a crit with a spinal.) Even a 50T Meson Bay factor 4 is going to average (On a crit) 420 points of SI normal damage and 260 of radiation damage. A 7000 Ton ship is 425 points of SI. (4D20x10)
Does that help clarify it?
<my mind boggles . . .>
Bhoins,
There isn't anything simple about that.
I do have some question, though.
Ok, there are 9d20. One dice is subtracted per each level of meson screen. Nine levels of meson screen would apear, to me, to reduce that to 1d20. This makes it seem like meson bays do relatively little damage, even with a crit., vs. meson screen nine.
italics added by me
Is there an explanation for why nuclear dampers don't work the same way as meson screens by subtracting one die per screen level (as opposed to screen level + 1 subtracted from the largest radiation damage dice)?
This does not apear to be the same damage reduction for nuclear dampers as described above (screen level + 1 subtracted from the largest radiation damage dice).Can you clarify this for me? </font>[/QUOTE]
