mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Post it all
High Guard 3
- Thread starter robject
- Start date
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Can you explain it in a bit more detail...
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Can you explain it in a bit more detail...
P
Pickles
Guest
Hit Locations! Hit Points! Location Hit Points!
P
Pickles
Guest
Hit Locations! Hit Points! Location Hit Points!
Guys, wait, wait, wait.I'm an OLD FART
(be 52 on Monday)I have to go a bit slow here or I'll get stuff lost.
First, I wonder if maybe we ought to start a new thread or should just keep this one going? (Responses requested)
Summary - please note if you agree or disagree.
1) Bay weapons can be grouped into batteries using the same ratios as turrets for the same weapon type.
2) Revised USP format -call v2.0 or even v3.0 I don't care
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;"> USP v2.0 or 3.0
AA-0000000-0-111111-222222-333333-444-555
777ff 666666-666666-666
group "0000000-0" is tonnage-configuration-jump-acceleration-power-cpu-storage-crew
group "777" is hit points to damage (by 1) USP
group "ff" indicates fibre optic backup
group "111111" is armor-sand-meson screen-dampers-force field-repulsors
group "222222" is laser-energy-paw-meson-disintegrator-missle turrets
group "333333" is laser-energy-paw-meson-disintegrator-missle bays
group "444" is paw-meson-disintegrator spinals
group "666666-666666-666" are computer-based DM to hit for each battery
group "555" is fighter-attack-support smallcraft</pre>[/QUOTE]Most pressing issues:
1) calculation of "hits to damage";
2) adding sandcaster bays;
3) adding repulsor turrets;
4) re-inserting batteries & batteries bearing (we left 'em out
5) Oz's post of 4/12 @ 05:55
Then, we can figure out the next step. Okay?
Guys, wait, wait, wait.I'm an OLD FART
(be 52 on Monday)I have to go a bit slow here or I'll get stuff lost.
First, I wonder if maybe we ought to start a new thread or should just keep this one going? (Responses requested)
Summary - please note if you agree or disagree.
1) Bay weapons can be grouped into batteries using the same ratios as turrets for the same weapon type.
2) Revised USP format -call v2.0 or even v3.0 I don't care
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;"> USP v2.0 or 3.0
AA-0000000-0-111111-222222-333333-444-555
777ff 666666-666666-666
group "0000000-0" is tonnage-configuration-jump-acceleration-power-cpu-storage-crew
group "777" is hit points to damage (by 1) USP
group "ff" indicates fibre optic backup
group "111111" is armor-sand-meson screen-dampers-force field-repulsors
group "222222" is laser-energy-paw-meson-disintegrator-missle turrets
group "333333" is laser-energy-paw-meson-disintegrator-missle bays
group "444" is paw-meson-disintegrator spinals
group "666666-666666-666" are computer-based DM to hit for each battery
group "555" is fighter-attack-support smallcraft</pre>[/QUOTE]Most pressing issues:
1) calculation of "hits to damage";
2) adding sandcaster bays;
3) adding repulsor turrets;
4) re-inserting batteries & batteries bearing (we left 'em out
5) Oz's post of 4/12 @ 05:55
Then, we can figure out the next step. Okay?
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I'd just keep this one going, and then collect everything in a new thread once its been finalised.
1) agree
2) agree
1) agree
2) agree
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I'd just keep this one going, and then collect everything in a new thread once its been finalised.
1) agree
2) agree
1) agree
2) agree
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
Ideally, a weapon would do X dtons of damage per hit (based on EP?) and you would track damage to components based on their tonnage: so a weapon that did 10 dtons of damage to a 100-dton component would reduce the factor of that component by some value based on the ratio of how much component was destroyed (10%) with perhaps a modifier for how "sensitive" to damage that particular component might be.
But such a system would be a lot of work for a fleet-level game like HG (I do have such a suggested system for LBB2 space combat, however) so I think the best we can do is accept that a bigger ship will have bigger drives and so those drives should take more damage before destruction.
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
Ideally, a weapon would do X dtons of damage per hit (based on EP?) and you would track damage to components based on their tonnage: so a weapon that did 10 dtons of damage to a 100-dton component would reduce the factor of that component by some value based on the ratio of how much component was destroyed (10%) with perhaps a modifier for how "sensitive" to damage that particular component might be.
But such a system would be a lot of work for a fleet-level game like HG (I do have such a suggested system for LBB2 space combat, however) so I think the best we can do is accept that a bigger ship will have bigger drives and so those drives should take more damage before destruction.
Oz, you didn't vote ! Be a Citizen
Regarding the hits to damage, Oz, you had the idea of pre-calculating them and puting them in the revised USP. I like that concept, and I think Sigg agrees.
Earlier, I promised something more on that subject. Both you and Sigg had something based on the size of the ship. Loosely, I had in mind a basis per ton of component. As an example, have 1 hit good for every 30 tons of component.
So, if Ship 1 has 30 tons of J-drive and 60 tons of maneuver drive, it would take 1 hit to knock out the J-drive and 2 hits to knock out the M-drive. Something along that line.
Oz, you didn't vote ! Be a Citizen
Regarding the hits to damage, Oz, you had the idea of pre-calculating them and puting them in the revised USP. I like that concept, and I think Sigg agrees.
Earlier, I promised something more on that subject. Both you and Sigg had something based on the size of the ship. Loosely, I had in mind a basis per ton of component. As an example, have 1 hit good for every 30 tons of component.
So, if Ship 1 has 30 tons of J-drive and 60 tons of maneuver drive, it would take 1 hit to knock out the J-drive and 2 hits to knock out the M-drive. Something along that line.
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
OK....
I don't think bay weapons need to be able to be grouped into larger batteries; instead why not have 250-dton and 500-dton bays that reach up into the lower spinal mount factors? I suggested this elsewhere as a option.
That said, I won't cry if "grouped" bay weapons are adopted; I just won't use them IMTU.
I like the suggested USP with room for ships to have turret, bay, and spinal weapons of the same type. Something like that is long overdue.
I don't think bay weapons need to be able to be grouped into larger batteries; instead why not have 250-dton and 500-dton bays that reach up into the lower spinal mount factors? I suggested this elsewhere as a option.
That said, I won't cry if "grouped" bay weapons are adopted; I just won't use them IMTU.
I like the suggested USP with room for ships to have turret, bay, and spinal weapons of the same type. Something like that is long overdue.
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
OK....
I don't think bay weapons need to be able to be grouped into larger batteries; instead why not have 250-dton and 500-dton bays that reach up into the lower spinal mount factors? I suggested this elsewhere as a option.
That said, I won't cry if "grouped" bay weapons are adopted; I just won't use them IMTU.
I like the suggested USP with room for ships to have turret, bay, and spinal weapons of the same type. Something like that is long overdue.
I don't think bay weapons need to be able to be grouped into larger batteries; instead why not have 250-dton and 500-dton bays that reach up into the lower spinal mount factors? I suggested this elsewhere as a option.
That said, I won't cry if "grouped" bay weapons are adopted; I just won't use them IMTU.
I like the suggested USP with room for ships to have turret, bay, and spinal weapons of the same type. Something like that is long overdue.
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
By the way, here's my suggested revised Damage Tables for HG, along with the descriptions of the hits.
NEW DAMAGE CHARTS FOR HIGH GUARD
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Die Surface Explosion Die Radiation Die Interior Explosion
(2D) Damage Table (2D) Damage Table (2D) Damage Table
2 Critical 2 Critical 2 Critical
3 Interior Explosion 3 Crew-2 3 Critical
4 Interior Explosion 4 Computer-4 4 Critical
5 Maneuver-2 5 Crew-1 5 Crew-1
6 Fuel-3 6 Computer-3 6 Computer-2
7 Weapon-3 7 Crew-1 7 Screens-3
8 Maneuver-1 8 Screens-2 8 Jump-2
9 Fuel-2 9 Computer-2 9 Power Plant-2
10 Weapon-2 10 Weapon-4 10 Crew-1
11 Maneuver-1 11 Computer-2 11 Computer-1
12 Fuel-1 12 Weapon-3 12 Screens-2
13 Interior Explosion 13 Screens-1 13 Jump-1
14 Weapon-1 14 Weapon-2 14 Power Plant-1
15 Weapon-1 15 Computer-1 15 Computer-1
16 Fuel-1 16 Weapon-2 16 Screens-1
17 Weapon-1 17 Weapon-1 17 Jump-1
18 Weapon-1 18 Screens-1 18 Power Plant-1
19 Fuel-1 19 Weapon-1 19 Screens-1
20 Weapon-1 20 Weapon-1 20 Jump-1
21 Weapon-1 21 Weapon-1 21 Power Plant-1
22 No Effect 22+ No Effect 22+ No Effect
Die Critical Hit Result
2 Ship Vaporized
3 Jump Drive Disabled
4 Maneuver Drive Disabled
5 One Screen Disabled
6 Frozen Watch/Ship's Troops Dead
7 Bridge Hit
8 Hanger/Boat Deck Destroyed
9 Computer Destroyed
10 Power Plant Disabled
11 Spinal Mount/Fire Control Out
12 Fuel Tanks Shattered</pre>[/QUOTE]EXPLANATION OF DAMAGE RESULTS (where different from regular High Guard)
</font>
The big change in the Surface Explosion Damage Table is moving one of the "Interior Explosion" results up to die roll "13". As the HG rules were written even an unarmored ship would never take "Interior Explosion" damage from bay or turret weapons, except for nuclear missiles. This way even a ship with factor-5 armor might take such damage from a single beam laser, and nuclear missiles can get "Interior Explosions" on ships with up to factor-11 armor.
On the Radiation Damage Table I replaced some Weapon-n hits with Screens-n hits of the same factor. I did this because I can't see why Weapons can be damaged by radiation but Screens cannot. I can accept that drives can't be damaged by hostile radiation (drives are fusion-powered and so hardened against effects of radiation) but I think Screens should be. These hits also make Radiation damage a little more damaging since almost all warships use /fib computers.
The only change on the Interior Explosion Damage Table is the replacement of the "Fuel Tanks Shattered" hit with a "Crew-1" hit. I've always felt that the effect of the "Fuel Tanks Shattered" hit was so devastating that it belonged on the Critical Hit Table.
The Critical Hit Table is much changed. I moved things around to reflect my own opinions of how likely such devastating hits should be; it should be much harder to completely knock out a ship's Jump drive or Power Plant with just one hit.
The change in how to handle Weapon-n hits is intended to make smaller ships more fragile compared to the battlewagons. Under strict HG, a small ship with lots of factor-3 batteries could take more weapons damage than a dreadnought full of factor-9 missile bays.
NEW DAMAGE CHARTS FOR HIGH GUARD
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Die Surface Explosion Die Radiation Die Interior Explosion
(2D) Damage Table (2D) Damage Table (2D) Damage Table
2 Critical 2 Critical 2 Critical
3 Interior Explosion 3 Crew-2 3 Critical
4 Interior Explosion 4 Computer-4 4 Critical
5 Maneuver-2 5 Crew-1 5 Crew-1
6 Fuel-3 6 Computer-3 6 Computer-2
7 Weapon-3 7 Crew-1 7 Screens-3
8 Maneuver-1 8 Screens-2 8 Jump-2
9 Fuel-2 9 Computer-2 9 Power Plant-2
10 Weapon-2 10 Weapon-4 10 Crew-1
11 Maneuver-1 11 Computer-2 11 Computer-1
12 Fuel-1 12 Weapon-3 12 Screens-2
13 Interior Explosion 13 Screens-1 13 Jump-1
14 Weapon-1 14 Weapon-2 14 Power Plant-1
15 Weapon-1 15 Computer-1 15 Computer-1
16 Fuel-1 16 Weapon-2 16 Screens-1
17 Weapon-1 17 Weapon-1 17 Jump-1
18 Weapon-1 18 Screens-1 18 Power Plant-1
19 Fuel-1 19 Weapon-1 19 Screens-1
20 Weapon-1 20 Weapon-1 20 Jump-1
21 Weapon-1 21 Weapon-1 21 Power Plant-1
22 No Effect 22+ No Effect 22+ No Effect
Die Critical Hit Result
2 Ship Vaporized
3 Jump Drive Disabled
4 Maneuver Drive Disabled
5 One Screen Disabled
6 Frozen Watch/Ship's Troops Dead
7 Bridge Hit
8 Hanger/Boat Deck Destroyed
9 Computer Destroyed
10 Power Plant Disabled
11 Spinal Mount/Fire Control Out
12 Fuel Tanks Shattered</pre>[/QUOTE]EXPLANATION OF DAMAGE RESULTS (where different from regular High Guard)
</font>
- Crew-1: One crew unit (including one damage control party) killed. If all crew units are killed the ship is completely helpless; unable to jump or maneuver (Agility-0), fire any weapons, use any screens or launch/retrieve any other craft.</font>
- Fuel-n: One hit is taken to the fuel tanks per "n".</font>
- Jump-n: One hit taken to the jump drive per "n".</font>
- Power Plant-n: One hit taken to the power plant per "n".</font>
- Maneuver-n: One hit taken to the maneuver drive per "n".</font>
- Weapon-n: One factor of spinal mount weaponry, or nine factors of other weaponry, is lost per "n". This can mean the lost of several small batteries of bay/turret weapons, even weapons of different types. If possible all weapon batteries lost to a single die roll should be the same type. The firing player chooses which weapons are lost but damage must be divided up as evenly as possible between all weapons actually present on the target.</font>
- Bridge Hit: One hit is taken to the ship's bridge. If all bridges are destroyed, the ship may not maneuver or jump, is treated as Agility-0 and all weapons fire as if the computer is half its actual factor (rounded down).</font>
The big change in the Surface Explosion Damage Table is moving one of the "Interior Explosion" results up to die roll "13". As the HG rules were written even an unarmored ship would never take "Interior Explosion" damage from bay or turret weapons, except for nuclear missiles. This way even a ship with factor-5 armor might take such damage from a single beam laser, and nuclear missiles can get "Interior Explosions" on ships with up to factor-11 armor.
On the Radiation Damage Table I replaced some Weapon-n hits with Screens-n hits of the same factor. I did this because I can't see why Weapons can be damaged by radiation but Screens cannot. I can accept that drives can't be damaged by hostile radiation (drives are fusion-powered and so hardened against effects of radiation) but I think Screens should be. These hits also make Radiation damage a little more damaging since almost all warships use /fib computers.
The only change on the Interior Explosion Damage Table is the replacement of the "Fuel Tanks Shattered" hit with a "Crew-1" hit. I've always felt that the effect of the "Fuel Tanks Shattered" hit was so devastating that it belonged on the Critical Hit Table.
The Critical Hit Table is much changed. I moved things around to reflect my own opinions of how likely such devastating hits should be; it should be much harder to completely knock out a ship's Jump drive or Power Plant with just one hit.
The change in how to handle Weapon-n hits is intended to make smaller ships more fragile compared to the battlewagons. Under strict HG, a small ship with lots of factor-3 batteries could take more weapons damage than a dreadnought full of factor-9 missile bays.
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
By the way, here's my suggested revised Damage Tables for HG, along with the descriptions of the hits.
NEW DAMAGE CHARTS FOR HIGH GUARD
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Die Surface Explosion Die Radiation Die Interior Explosion
(2D) Damage Table (2D) Damage Table (2D) Damage Table
2 Critical 2 Critical 2 Critical
3 Interior Explosion 3 Crew-2 3 Critical
4 Interior Explosion 4 Computer-4 4 Critical
5 Maneuver-2 5 Crew-1 5 Crew-1
6 Fuel-3 6 Computer-3 6 Computer-2
7 Weapon-3 7 Crew-1 7 Screens-3
8 Maneuver-1 8 Screens-2 8 Jump-2
9 Fuel-2 9 Computer-2 9 Power Plant-2
10 Weapon-2 10 Weapon-4 10 Crew-1
11 Maneuver-1 11 Computer-2 11 Computer-1
12 Fuel-1 12 Weapon-3 12 Screens-2
13 Interior Explosion 13 Screens-1 13 Jump-1
14 Weapon-1 14 Weapon-2 14 Power Plant-1
15 Weapon-1 15 Computer-1 15 Computer-1
16 Fuel-1 16 Weapon-2 16 Screens-1
17 Weapon-1 17 Weapon-1 17 Jump-1
18 Weapon-1 18 Screens-1 18 Power Plant-1
19 Fuel-1 19 Weapon-1 19 Screens-1
20 Weapon-1 20 Weapon-1 20 Jump-1
21 Weapon-1 21 Weapon-1 21 Power Plant-1
22 No Effect 22+ No Effect 22+ No Effect
Die Critical Hit Result
2 Ship Vaporized
3 Jump Drive Disabled
4 Maneuver Drive Disabled
5 One Screen Disabled
6 Frozen Watch/Ship's Troops Dead
7 Bridge Hit
8 Hanger/Boat Deck Destroyed
9 Computer Destroyed
10 Power Plant Disabled
11 Spinal Mount/Fire Control Out
12 Fuel Tanks Shattered</pre>[/QUOTE]EXPLANATION OF DAMAGE RESULTS (where different from regular High Guard)
</font>
The big change in the Surface Explosion Damage Table is moving one of the "Interior Explosion" results up to die roll "13". As the HG rules were written even an unarmored ship would never take "Interior Explosion" damage from bay or turret weapons, except for nuclear missiles. This way even a ship with factor-5 armor might take such damage from a single beam laser, and nuclear missiles can get "Interior Explosions" on ships with up to factor-11 armor.
On the Radiation Damage Table I replaced some Weapon-n hits with Screens-n hits of the same factor. I did this because I can't see why Weapons can be damaged by radiation but Screens cannot. I can accept that drives can't be damaged by hostile radiation (drives are fusion-powered and so hardened against effects of radiation) but I think Screens should be. These hits also make Radiation damage a little more damaging since almost all warships use /fib computers.
The only change on the Interior Explosion Damage Table is the replacement of the "Fuel Tanks Shattered" hit with a "Crew-1" hit. I've always felt that the effect of the "Fuel Tanks Shattered" hit was so devastating that it belonged on the Critical Hit Table.
The Critical Hit Table is much changed. I moved things around to reflect my own opinions of how likely such devastating hits should be; it should be much harder to completely knock out a ship's Jump drive or Power Plant with just one hit.
The change in how to handle Weapon-n hits is intended to make smaller ships more fragile compared to the battlewagons. Under strict HG, a small ship with lots of factor-3 batteries could take more weapons damage than a dreadnought full of factor-9 missile bays.
NEW DAMAGE CHARTS FOR HIGH GUARD
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Die Surface Explosion Die Radiation Die Interior Explosion
(2D) Damage Table (2D) Damage Table (2D) Damage Table
2 Critical 2 Critical 2 Critical
3 Interior Explosion 3 Crew-2 3 Critical
4 Interior Explosion 4 Computer-4 4 Critical
5 Maneuver-2 5 Crew-1 5 Crew-1
6 Fuel-3 6 Computer-3 6 Computer-2
7 Weapon-3 7 Crew-1 7 Screens-3
8 Maneuver-1 8 Screens-2 8 Jump-2
9 Fuel-2 9 Computer-2 9 Power Plant-2
10 Weapon-2 10 Weapon-4 10 Crew-1
11 Maneuver-1 11 Computer-2 11 Computer-1
12 Fuel-1 12 Weapon-3 12 Screens-2
13 Interior Explosion 13 Screens-1 13 Jump-1
14 Weapon-1 14 Weapon-2 14 Power Plant-1
15 Weapon-1 15 Computer-1 15 Computer-1
16 Fuel-1 16 Weapon-2 16 Screens-1
17 Weapon-1 17 Weapon-1 17 Jump-1
18 Weapon-1 18 Screens-1 18 Power Plant-1
19 Fuel-1 19 Weapon-1 19 Screens-1
20 Weapon-1 20 Weapon-1 20 Jump-1
21 Weapon-1 21 Weapon-1 21 Power Plant-1
22 No Effect 22+ No Effect 22+ No Effect
Die Critical Hit Result
2 Ship Vaporized
3 Jump Drive Disabled
4 Maneuver Drive Disabled
5 One Screen Disabled
6 Frozen Watch/Ship's Troops Dead
7 Bridge Hit
8 Hanger/Boat Deck Destroyed
9 Computer Destroyed
10 Power Plant Disabled
11 Spinal Mount/Fire Control Out
12 Fuel Tanks Shattered</pre>[/QUOTE]EXPLANATION OF DAMAGE RESULTS (where different from regular High Guard)
</font>
- Crew-1: One crew unit (including one damage control party) killed. If all crew units are killed the ship is completely helpless; unable to jump or maneuver (Agility-0), fire any weapons, use any screens or launch/retrieve any other craft.</font>
- Fuel-n: One hit is taken to the fuel tanks per "n".</font>
- Jump-n: One hit taken to the jump drive per "n".</font>
- Power Plant-n: One hit taken to the power plant per "n".</font>
- Maneuver-n: One hit taken to the maneuver drive per "n".</font>
- Weapon-n: One factor of spinal mount weaponry, or nine factors of other weaponry, is lost per "n". This can mean the lost of several small batteries of bay/turret weapons, even weapons of different types. If possible all weapon batteries lost to a single die roll should be the same type. The firing player chooses which weapons are lost but damage must be divided up as evenly as possible between all weapons actually present on the target.</font>
- Bridge Hit: One hit is taken to the ship's bridge. If all bridges are destroyed, the ship may not maneuver or jump, is treated as Agility-0 and all weapons fire as if the computer is half its actual factor (rounded down).</font>
The big change in the Surface Explosion Damage Table is moving one of the "Interior Explosion" results up to die roll "13". As the HG rules were written even an unarmored ship would never take "Interior Explosion" damage from bay or turret weapons, except for nuclear missiles. This way even a ship with factor-5 armor might take such damage from a single beam laser, and nuclear missiles can get "Interior Explosions" on ships with up to factor-11 armor.
On the Radiation Damage Table I replaced some Weapon-n hits with Screens-n hits of the same factor. I did this because I can't see why Weapons can be damaged by radiation but Screens cannot. I can accept that drives can't be damaged by hostile radiation (drives are fusion-powered and so hardened against effects of radiation) but I think Screens should be. These hits also make Radiation damage a little more damaging since almost all warships use /fib computers.
The only change on the Interior Explosion Damage Table is the replacement of the "Fuel Tanks Shattered" hit with a "Crew-1" hit. I've always felt that the effect of the "Fuel Tanks Shattered" hit was so devastating that it belonged on the Critical Hit Table.
The Critical Hit Table is much changed. I moved things around to reflect my own opinions of how likely such devastating hits should be; it should be much harder to completely knock out a ship's Jump drive or Power Plant with just one hit.
The change in how to handle Weapon-n hits is intended to make smaller ships more fragile compared to the battlewagons. Under strict HG, a small ship with lots of factor-3 batteries could take more weapons damage than a dreadnought full of factor-9 missile bays.
