CT Only: Homeworld Enlistment

[Condottiere]

It costs peanuts to maintain warships at full readiness, you don't even need to mothball them, just rotate maintenance crews.

Unless, the military industrial complex really has been pressuring procurement.

 

[Supplement Four]

The fleet at Aramis is TL15, the IN base at Aramis is TL15.

You base that on what line? I'd like to read it again. It's been a while.

The whole point of the Traveller Adventure plot is the stealing of a TL15 IN meson gun shipment which is enroute to the Aramis IN base - so yes the IN does ship spares to its bases. The base will also have TL15 maker technology, TL15 computer technology etc.

It's beeing shipped in for assembly. Why wouldn't they manufacture it there instead of ship it from where ever it came from?

 

[mike wightman]

Probably because it is a lot easier to make it at a TL15 factory and then ship it to the Aramis base. I'm not claiming the IN builds capital ships at all of its bases regardless of local world TL. What I am saying is they have TL15 facilities for repair and replacement of damaged capital ships. In addition hulls less than 5000t can likely be assembled at a local yard using the TL15 IN facilities to help - hence General being able to assemble Kinunir class vessels at TL10 Regina.

By extension I fail to see how a type A or B starport can not have stocks of TL15 parts for the civilian craft that come calling for annual maintenance.

But the adventure is very clear on this - the meson guns and their control computers are being shipped to the IN base on Aramis, for use by that base - we don't know if they will be installed as base defence or just kept in a warehouse to repair battle damage on ships that need it.

Mc.Perth has already pointed out the FFW implications of the IN bases on worlds less than TL15 in the war zone detailed by the board game, suffice to say the fleets allocated to the bases are TL15 regardless of local world TL, the bases are capable of refueling, repairing and replacing losses those same fleets and thus need to be TL15 also, again regardless of local world TL.

 

[mike wightman]

You base that on what line? I'd like to read it again. It's been a while.

All Imperial fleets are TL15 in the 1105 era, as evident from FFW and S9. S9 mentions IN base facilities and disposition of fleets - every BB in the BatRons is TL15.

It's beeing shipped in for assembly. Why wouldn't they manufacture it there instead of ship it from where ever it came from?

Because they don't have TL15 manufacturing capabilities at he base capable of building the meson guns and computers from raw materials, so they ship them in as spares for battle damaged ships or as base defence. Either way the base is TL15.

 

[mike wightman]

One last thing of note from the Traveller Adventure - the majority of the ships featured in the adventure are TL15, including the Akerut 5000t merchant that never goes out of the subsector.
How else do you do annual maintainance on a TL15 5000t jump 1 Hercules class transport other than have TL spares and components available at the class B and class A starports within the Aramis subsector?

 

[Supplement Four]

I'm not claiming the IN builds capital ships at all of its bases regardless of local world TL. What I am saying is they have TL15 facilities for repair and replacement of damaged capital ships.

We may or may not be in agreement here. I said something to this effect above. The capital ships seem to be TL 15, if looking at that Supplement (I'm taking your word for it--I haven't dug that book out to view it).

If so, I do think that the Class A's have some TL 15 support facilities, but they are not full blown dry docks. The ships being made at a Class A is at the world TL or the DGP minimum, whichever is higher.

By extension I fail to see how a type A or B starport can not have stocks of TL15 parts for the civilian craft that come calling for annual maintenance.

Cost.

Plus support and infrastructure.

The IN isn't looking to make a profit. In fact, it probably costs an astronomical sum to operate the IN and keep Class A's stocked with parts over the local TL, and the personnel to install the parts.

 

[mike wightman]

Cost of importing parts vs cost of moving your entire merchant fleet to Rhylanor, Trin, Glisten or Mora - that's quite a trip for the jump 1 Hercules class Akerut bulk traders that trade exclusively within the Aramis subsector.

The only thing that makes sense for all those TL15 civilian merchants in the Aramis subsector is for their annual maintenance to be performed at the A and B class starports in the Aramis subsector - and that means importing parts or having TL15 makers in the starports.

In the Aramis subsector there are:
Tukera long liners (1000t) and freighters (3000t), Imperiallines 2000t frontier traders, and the aforementioned Akerut 5000t bulk freighter all of which are TL15.

If I'm correct in my assumptions then all of those ships can receive annual maintenance at class A and B starports within the Aramis subsector. If not then every one of them will have to plan their yearly trade routes around getting to and from the nearest TL15 world. Which is going to be really difficult for a jump 1 merchants whose trade is conducted wholly within the subsector.

 

[Brandon C]

Or that the Akerut was incorrectly designed at TL15.

Honestly, it looks like the significance of local TL was severely degraded over the life of CT to cater to the 3I setting.

 

[mike wightman]

Or that the Akerut was incorrectly designed at TL15.

Nope, it's not an incorrect design.
It is a completely legit LBB2 design as are the others I mentioned.

Honestly, it looks like the significance of local TL was severely degraded over the life of CT to cater to the 3I setting.

There are lots of disconnects and inconsistencies due to the mixing of rules that were never meant to be mixed.

 

[Ulsyus]

If I'm correct in my assumptions then all of those ships can receive annual maintenance at class A and B starports within the Aramis subsector. If not then every one of them will have to plan their yearly trade routes around getting to and from the nearest TL15 world. Which is going to be really difficult for a jump 1 merchants whose trade is conducted wholly within the subsector.

So is the implication that a class A or B starport in any starnation that maintains a navy is rated at the highest TL for that state?

 

[mike wightman]

With some exceptions then yes, that is how I do it.

In my long night type setting though because there is no monolithic star empire to maintain trade and knowledge transfer then jumping to a system that is TL5 means you can expect to find only TL5.

Which makes it pretty difficult to explain how a class A staport exists...

(it is theoretically possible using the system design in LBB3)

 

[Brandon C]

Nope, it's not an incorrect design.
It is a completely legit LBB2 design as are the others I mentioned.

The problem here is that, except for computers and maximum drive performance, all starship components were the same regardless of TL. This doesn't mean LBB2 ships are all TL15, it means it is a very simple design system.

Insisting that all starships are TL15, regardless of the TL of the world they were built* on, stretches believability too much.

* Making a distinction between built and assembled as standard practice is too big a dodge for me

 

[Brandon C]

Which makes it pretty difficult to explain how a class A staport exists...

(it is theoretically possible using the system design in LBB3)

This is why TL should determine starport and not the other way around.

 

[mike wightman]

The problem here is that, except for computers and maximum drive performance, all starship components were the same regardless of TL. This doesn't mean LBB2 ships are all TL15, it means it is a very simple design system.

Who said every ship is TL15? Every ship I have mentioned in the Traveller Adventure as TL 15 is TL 15 because of the drives that are installed on the ship.
It's the drives and the computer that determine LBB:2/3 ship TL.
The scout is TL9 because its drives are, the x boat is TL10 because its drives are, the Hercules is TL15 because its drives are - that's the way it works in Classic Traveller (CT only thread header).

Insisting that all starships are TL15, regardless of the TL of the world they were built* on, stretches believability too much.

I agree, and that is not what I am claiming. Civilian ships run from TL9 to TL15 depending on the drives and computer installed, as per LBB:2/3 rules

* Making a distinction between built and assembled as standard practice is too big a dodge for me

Many real world aircraft and ships are assembled rather than built. The modules/components call they what you will can be manufactured in completely different countries and then assembled in another.

 

[mike wightman]

This is why TL should determine starport and not the other way around.

I agree up to a point. If you want a setting that makes sense then you have to go through your random data and fudge stuff.
But as it is in setting every IN base is TL 15 while the world TL doesn't matter to the IN, and it makes sense for every type A and B starport to have access to TL15 spares as a result, and to explain how a class B or A starport can perform annual maintenance on any civilian ship of TL9-15 regardless of world TL.

A setting trope that has evolved over the last few years is the idea that the Imperium has a Starport Authority, and that starports are the property of the Imperium and or may even be the fiefs of the Imperial nobility.
Making every A and B starport TL15 puts the Imperial nobility above the TL8 natives.

Just look at Regina, TL10, and yet the Duke maintains household troops, vehicles etc at TL15.

 

[McPerth]

The AHLs were retired for the second time post FFW, which is probably what you are thinking of from MT canon. During the CT era the AHL were still in service in the SM and fought in the FFW

Here you go:

In 1048, all 55 surviving examples still in Imperial Naval service were retired
from active duty...
A total of 28 hulls were ultimately converted and redesignated
as frontier cruisers...
The 28 ships converted were redesignated as frontier cruisers in recognition of
their anticipated role as the local core of the first line of defense on the frontiers of the Imperium. Initially, all 28 ships were paired to form 14 cruiser divisions (Cru- Divs 117 to 128, inclusive), but CruDivs 118, 119, and 127 were soon broken up to provide individual ships for moderate threat regions.

Well, those AHL are refited with TL15 components (IIRC their computer and spinal were refited), but, aside from this, are those frontier cruisers specified to be IN or they may well be subsector/reserve ones (I don't have my AHL Handy to look for it, if specified)?

So how did that happen? Mike, does this go back to your suggestion that Class A ports would all be TL15?

I'd not say any Class A starport, but I'm quite sure any Imperial Naval Base has large stores of TL15 components to allow them to service the IN squadrons.

As for the rest of the starports, as I use it (so considere that to be an IMTU note) they use to have (unless the referee decides against for plot reasons) spares for any standard design (that includes any IDP ship), while custoum ones might have some problems (usually small delays and/or price increase) to be maintained or repaired in a lower TL one.

 

[mike wightman]

They are regular IN CruDivs which make up the CruRon counters in FFW.

A veteran of both the Fourth and Fifth Frontier wars (1082-1084
and 1107-11 10 respectively), Vengeance served with distinction
among the auxiliary forces in the Fourth, and with the first-line forces
of CruRon 501 in the Flfth Frontier War, present at the Battle of
Rhylanor. At the end of hostilities In 1110, the crulser was assigned
lesser duties and then mothballed at the Trin Inactive Ships Facility
in 1114 (along with the Marches' four other remaining Lightnings).

CruRon 501 is one of the jump 5 cruiser counters in the FFW boardgame, along with CruRons 502-504.

 

[Supplement Four]

Honestly, it looks like the significance of local TL was severely degraded over the life of CT to cater to the 3I setting.

I think this as well.

 

[aramis]

Or that the Akerut was incorrectly designed at TL15.

Honestly, it looks like the significance of local TL was severely degraded over the life of CT to cater to the 3I setting.

The Akerut Lines' Hercules class, being a Bk2 design, uses the drive letter restrictions for TL found in Bk 3 on the big two-page technology table. Any drive higher than U is TL15; it has a W drive or two...

 

[Supplement Four]

This is interesting...

S11 states that Naval Bases on the surface of a world are capable of building 1,000 ton hulls or less. Bigger hulls require an orbital starport.

I've seen some planetary qualifications for a highport somewhere, but I'm not sure what I saw it.