How exactly does one seize a ship intact?

[Jebediah]

Hello everyone, new forum member/Traveller player here, and I'm wondering about the act of piracy in the world of Traveller. A huge majority of the ship-to-ship stuff covered in the books is the simple exchanging of fire, with the intent of disabling or destroying the opposing vessel, and that's obviously the opposite of what your average pirate wants to do. They are, after all, after the cargo or ship itself, and therefore every shot they take is one that damages their prize. I get that one deploys boarding crews to fight it out with the enemy crew (or just intimidate them into surrendering, preferably) like historical pirates, but the details just get fuzzy to me.

Could someone please describe for me the steps one takes when combat initiates to approach, board, and claim a ship? Thank you for your time!

 

[aramis]

No small request there.

Simply put - there are a HUGE variety of ways.

Ones I've had pulled on PC's:

• Masquerade as local security forces, and function as a normal inspection right up until they're aboard.
• Use neutron bombs to kill the controls and crew
• demonstrate superior thrust AND firepower, and demand surrender.
• Use the Target program to ensure engine hits.

 

[Carlobrand]

What steps does one see when someone wants to take your wallet? They point a gun at you and depend on your better judgment. Or, they ambush you and knock you silly before you can say or do much.

It's much the same thing, just with spaceships. Display overwhelming strength and demand compliance, or find some way to sneak up and get in the first shot - and then be strong enough that it's also pretty much the last shot.

In most cases, "fighting it out" is no more in the pirate's interest than it is for the guy pointing a gun at you: having you meekly surrender is much safer and much more profitable, so if they can find a way to persuade you to cooperate - for example, agreeing to let you barricade yourself into the bridge and engine room while they have their way with the cargo bay under the watchful eyes of their ship's guns - then everyone gets to walk away alive. Trading shots involves a risk of expensive repairs, and a contested boarding action means the one or more of the few folk in the world they think of as vaguely on their side might just get hurt or killed. Best is to either confront you with such power that you would be a fool to resist or overwhelm you so thoroughly and quickly that there's no real fight, unless the prize is so big that they're willing to take big chances and there's no other way to get it.

 

[Jebediah]

Right, all of that makes sense to me. I'm speaking in the more or less hypothetical sense, if there were enough of an incentive for the target ship to prefer fight/flight over surrender and enough incentive for the raiding ship to attempt a boarding anyway. Subterfuge is always possible, and it's one of the things I considered as an option.

Aramis, thanks for the neutron bomb suggestion. I guess that because I haven't seen them in any of the material I've read, the concept itself slipped my mind, but this is the future and all. And yes, I suppose hitting the engines would always help.

Another more specific question: How exactly do your boarders transfer from their craft to the enemy's in a hot situation? Do they try to dock with an airlock under fire, do they latch on and cut their way in, do they slip on their vacc suits, aim for a spot that doesn't look too explosive, and hope for the best?

 

[Matt123]

... and therefore every shot they take is one that damages their prize.

The bigger concern for pirates is taking damage themselves. Safe harbours that offer repair facilities are not likely to be close.

With that in mind, intimidation is good. If you are the one applying it, use "Shock and Awe", of course those on the receiving end call it "unparalleled brutality". None-the-less building a reputation as a savage pirate helps, but always let those that concede live to tell of your ferocity and your benevolence to those that surrender. Your future victims have to believe, based on your reputation that there is less risk in conceding than fighting.

Based on past analysis, all you really want are their ships boats. Don't bother boarding, just get them to cast the boat adrift. Its much safer and a 20ton launch is worth 14MCr new, maybe 4MCr(?) on the black market. Boarding isn't usually worth the risk just to collect their wallets and baubles.

Good luck in your piracy endeavours. Its usually considered a very short but exciting career choice.

 

[Emperor Valdamir]

"demonstrate superior thrust AND firepower, and demand surrender."

This is what was historically the case in the Golden Age of piracy... Most merchant ships didn't even try to fight, as they stood little chance of winning. Instead they would surrender, the pirates would take the cargo and usually offer to recruit any merchant sailors who wished to join (many were slaves or 'pressed' crew for whom the freedom of piracy was alluring), and then they would leave. Pirates generally would not attack the merchant crew as long as they complied.

On the other hand, if a merchantman DID try to fight back, then the pirates would show no mercy. That created their reputation.... Cooperate and you wont be harmed. Fail to cooperate and you will die.

 

[Vladika]

Why bother being a pirate in the "traditional" sense? Easier, safer, and more profitable to be a merchant and divert your own cargo claiming "pirate" oh my, we had no choice.

And that is exactly what some of you are proposing once you cut to the chase.

1) What shipper is going to use your services if you just "hand it over"?
2) What insurer is going to underwrite a policy?
3) What finance company is going to extend credit on you future ship or other needs?
4) What are the authorities, and the courts, going to think of your conduct?
5) There goes your mail contract, and likely your subsidized route and ship.

Once the pirate has you helpless who knows what will happen in the far reaches of space?

1) Maybe you find it acceptable to risk being "spaced" so there are no witnesses.
2) Maybe you think it's OK to risk the rape of the women in your passengers and crew.
3) Maybe the possibility of slavery, and staying alive, is better than being dead.
4) Maybe someone will ransom you...

The life of a "Golden Age" pirate was SHORT! Even carriers of Letters of Marque were occasionally whacked by their patron kings and queens.

Why spend the credits on armament you don't intend to use?

As mentioned before, a pirate has to consider the risk of damage to his own ship before committing to a fight. Even if you are outgunned he has to weigh the risks.

1) Will the damage I take cause me to get caught?
2) Can I risk not being able to make battle repairs?
3) Will I be able to refuel after repairs?
4) Will the navy happen by while I'm crippled?
5) How much will permanent repairs cost vs the worth of the booty?
6) Will my sorry ass get killed in the fight?

And this "the best thing for a pirate to take is the ships small craft"?

1) Like they aren't serial numbered and registered just like a ship?
2) Don't they too have transponders?
3) Don't they need annual repairs at ship or boatyards where owners report those numbers?
4) Doesn't the local cop check the "vin" numbers and check his "stolen" property list?

I'll bet you can sell a ship:

1) On the Vargr side of the border.
2) Possibly in the Sword Worlds as well.
3) Depending on the mood of the Zho's...
4) To another aspiring pirate.
5) Your local "chop shop".
6) To a smuggler or blockade runner.
7) A slaver who can then afford to ditch a ship and attempt escape.
8) Then all those independent worlds. Even if they can't repair it, they buy it cheap and run it ragged.

 

[CosmicGamer]

Why bother being a pirate

I think it boils down to because it's fun gaming for some.

Topics regarding navy response, ease of selling stolen ships, risk/reward and so on are discussed in many other threads and you might find more answers and discussion regarding your thoughts there.

Here are just a few links

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=17150&highlight=piracy

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=3908&highlight=piracy

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=18008&highlight=piracy

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=15403&highlight=piracy

I'll comment on the following sense the small craft option is not something I've noticed discussed as much in the past.

And this "the best thing for a pirate to take is the ships small craft"?
1) Like they aren't serial numbered and registered just like a ship?
2) Don't they too have transponders?
3) Don't they need annual repairs at ship or boatyards where owners report those numbers?
4) Doesn't the local cop check the "vin" numbers and check his "stolen" property list?

1 and 2) A very YTU decision
2) If a transponder exists, see discussions regarding ship transponders in other piracy threads - opinions vary.
3) May vary between Traveller versions but silly as it seams, the version I play has routine maintenance rules detailed for ships 100t + but nothing for small craft or vehicles or computers or guns or.... Result being it is up to the GM to decide if a small craft needs annual maintenance and if so, if it needs to be done at a ship or boatyard.
4) A very YTU decision and perhaps also a very "depends on the system your in" issue. Something that could be fun for some to role play; trying to sell a small craft on the black market somewhere.

In addition,
a) Have all the similar options as one would for the ship. Chopping it up for valuable parts, ransom, taking it across the border and so on - things discussed in depth elsewhere.
b) A small craft can be hidden inside another ship or even a large cargo container. Trying to get a ship to piracy market would likely draw more scrutiny.

 

[Vladika]

Topics regarding navy response, ease of selling stolen ships, risk/reward and so on are discussed in many other threads and you might find more answers and discussion regarding your thoughts there.

Here are just a few links

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=17150&highlight=piracy

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=3908&highlight=piracy

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=18008&highlight=piracy

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=15403&highlight=piracy

Thanks for both the dialog and the links. I look forward to reading them.

 

[aramis]

Right, all of that makes sense to me. I'm speaking in the more or less hypothetical sense, if there were enough of an incentive for the target ship to prefer fight/flight over surrender and enough incentive for the raiding ship to attempt a boarding anyway. Subterfuge is always possible, and it's one of the things I considered as an option.

Aramis, thanks for the neutron bomb suggestion. I guess that because I haven't seen them in any of the material I've read, the concept itself slipped my mind, but this is the future and all. And yes, I suppose hitting the engines would always help.

Another more specific question: How exactly do your boarders transfer from their craft to the enemy's in a hot situation? Do they try to dock with an airlock under fire, do they latch on and cut their way in, do they slip on their vacc suits, aim for a spot that doesn't look too explosive, and hope for the best?

They're easily adapted using Special Supplement 3: Missiles. Reduced explosion, increased radiation. Only good if the cargo is able to survive a radiation blast.

Since my players are usually the ones being boarded - it varies.

A customs inspection usually is lock-to-lock, so that method is commonly the same.

A threaten and storm is load up on the combat and/or battledress armor, chain the ships together, and go through an airlock.

The true professional privateer tosses a jump net around the target vessel, and jumps with it. They can then talk the crew off with promises of food and survival.

 

[Vladika]

The true professional privateer tosses a jump net around the target vessel, and jumps with it. They can then talk the crew off with promises of food and survival.

Curious; what if ship A attempts jump while in the net of ship B? Also, can you jump out of a net while in jump? (Maybe there'll be enough on this for a separate thread?)

 

[McPerth]

Curious; what if ship A attempts jump while in the net of ship B? Also, can you jump out of a net while in jump? (Maybe there'll be enough on this for a separate thread?)

In few words, you have a big mess...

Remember that if you're catched in the jump net, probably you're inside the 10 diameters of the other ship, and (assuming it's larger than yours, as if it's not it's unlikely to be able to jump with the catch) you're in a big trouble trying to jump in this conditions...

 

[Vladika]

In few words, you have a big mess...

Remember that if you're catched in the jump net, probably you're inside the 10 diameters of the other ship, and (assuming it's larger than yours, as if it's not it's unlikely to be able to jump with the catch) you're in a big trouble trying to jump in this conditions...

But, other considerations aside, CAN you jump while in jump space? Particularly if yours wasn't the ship that initiated the jump.

 

[flykiller]

CAN you jump while in jump space?

dude. it's a game. you can do whatever you want. make it up.

ruling 1) yes. you jump out of jump space into normal space.
ruling 1a) yes. you jump out of jump space into another universe.
ruling 1a1) naviation is possible enabling choice of destination universe.
ruling 1a2) navigation is impossible and destination is a random universe.
ruling 1a3) time navigation is possible and you jump out into normal space at another time.
ruling 2) yes. it's simply another jump.
ruling 2a) naviation is possible enabling choice of destination (in normal space).
ruling 2b) navigation is impossible and destination is random (in normal space).
ruling 3) unknown. several ships have stated an intention to jump while in jump space. they never are heard from again. no-one knows what happens.

 

[McPerth]

But, other considerations aside, CAN you jump while in jump space? Particularly if yours wasn't the ship that initiated the jump.

IIRC this was discussed in a Challenge as a way to (teoretically) achieve greater jumps, but usually ended with missjump at best...

 

[rancke]

dude. it's a game. you can do whatever you want. make it up.

We already know that we can do whatever we want. And what some of us want is to discuss how things work in our common frame of reference, the OTU.


Hans

 

[McPerth]

Hello everyone, new forum member/Traveller player here, and I'm wondering about the act of piracy in the world of Traveller.

First of all, wellcome to the board. Enjoy it and don't be afraid of asking questions, many great minds would try to help you (and many times they will end in greater meses :devil.

A huge majority of the ship-to-ship stuff covered in the books is the simple exchanging of fire, with the intent of disabling or destroying the opposing vessel, and that's obviously the opposite of what your average pirate wants to do. They are, after all, after the cargo or ship itself, and therefore every shot they take is one that damages their prize. I get that one deploys boarding crews to fight it out with the enemy crew (or just intimidate them into surrendering, preferably) like historical pirates, but the details just get fuzzy to me.

I guess the best way to capture an intact ship is simply being quite more large and powerful and by outright intimidation:

Here's Jolly Roger (800 dton armed pirate ship). Captain Hook speaking to the free trader near us. Our weapons are locked on you, but we'd like to have your ship intact, avoiding murders if posible. Comply and you'll be released alive and well on some habitable planet, resist or try to jump and we'll have to content ourselves with some blood spilled junk to be sold as scrap. I guess we al lwin with the first option, which one do you choose?​

Could someone please describe for me the steps one takes when combat initiates to approach, board, and claim a ship? Thank you for your time!

Even EVA operations can be tryed to reach the ship t obe boarded (as in MT:Assignment Vigilante), but they are quite risky.

Again in MT, even a simple sandcaster has pen 20 and does 10 damage points up to medium distance (50 m), whith penetration halved up to very long (500 m). Even Battledress tropos are vulnerable to it (as for other space rated weapons, any hit means "start CharGen again".

In MgT, this same sandcaster makes 1 damage point at adjacent range (in space terms, that means up to 1 km), that is multiplied by 50 for being spaceship rated vs personnel...

 

[Condottiere]

Piracy is most probably a non-viable business model within the borders of the Imperium.

Having said that, I presume you want to recreate the golden age of piracy on the Spanish main, with the requisite adrenalin driven, cannon-pounding, boarding action, followed by dining, wining, wenching and chorusing over dead men's chests.

If the group is looking forward to that, then just have the campaign play out in some ambiguous border area; I believe there may be one or two published works that address that.

NOBODY expects the Pirates! Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the bottomline .... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again.

NOBODY expects the Pirates! Amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as: fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, an almost fanatical devotion to the bottomline, and nice red uniforms - Oh damn!

 

[Matt123]

1) What shipper is going to use your services if you just "hand it over"?
2) What insurer is going to underwrite a policy?
3) What finance company is going to extend credit on you future ship or other needs?
4) What are the authorities, and the courts, going to think of your conduct?
5) There goes your mail contract, and likely your subsidized route and ship.

Insurers are in the business of insuring, not guarding. Courts are in the business of judging criminals and the authorities (one or two branches at least) are in the business of catching them.

Everybody recognises merchants are in the business of merchanting, not fighting pirates, risking lives and assets.

Each works within their specialisation.

Why spend the credits on armament you don't intend to use?

It ups the barrier for entry as a pirate.

And this "the best thing for a pirate to take is the ships small craft"?

1) Like they aren't serial numbered and registered just like a ship?
2) Don't they too have transponders?
3) Don't they need annual repairs at ship or boatyards where owners report those numbers?
4) Doesn't the local cop check the "vin" numbers and check his "stolen" property list?

yes x4
Doesn't stop criminals today though. For the criminally inventive, there will be ways to sort this and markets that are not concerned.

 

[Patron Zero]

There is always the more direct approach such as attaching a device to a ship's hull while said ship is docked in port, orbital or dirt-side but likely less seen-discovered while in hard vacuum.

Said device, let's call it a lamprey, would transmit a coded signal acting as a 'beacon' of sorts for pirates to follow or simply be pre-programmed to disable the target vessel before a jump by different means, subtle or dramatic.