How exactly does one seize a ship intact?

[aramis]

IIRC this was discussed in a Challenge as a way to (teoretically) achieve greater jumps, but usually ended with missjump at best...

I recall that as well, but not where.

In general, the privateer will demand the PP be off, and as I understand it, in the OTU, a Jump requires a working powerplant, with the exception of certain specialized drives (see also X-Boats).

 

[Carlobrand]

...The true professional privateer tosses a jump net around the target vessel, and jumps with it. They can then talk the crew off with promises of food and survival.

If ship A can net ship B, then ship B is no longer capable of maneuver. That's letting someone get awful close AND giving them plenty of time to act, neither of which a ship is going to tolerate while it has drives and a crew willing to use them. I can't see someone trying some sort of net-on-the-run trick without high probability of damage to the net, and even then I'd be hard-pressed to rule that you can close the net to create a proper field in that kind of fast-paced circumstance. Ergo, either ship B is already crippled or their crew is already cowed, and you're just jumping someplace where you can negotiate without having the law stick its nose in your business.

Same thing with a boarding on the run. If the target is actively maneuvering, odds of landing some space-suited soul on it without sailing on past or going splat with the velocity are about as good as trying to land on the back of a moving semi from a plane flying in the wrong direction. Target's not likely to tolerate someone trying to dock a boat to him either. Target has to be stopped, either willingly or by force, before someone'd have any shot at boarding (which is the High Guard rule as well).

Stopping you doesn't disarm you. If you've got weapons and the will and power to use them, he'd best knock those out as well. I'm not going to give the same to hit roll for targeting a boat matching course with you a hundred yards off as I would for a boat evading your fire at 10,000 kilometers: that daring feller isn't just going to get hit - he's going to get carved like a Christmas turkey. Only thing likely to stop that is him pointing enough guns back your way that you'd share the boat's fate if you tried it. And, men in suits dropping toward you make for dandy skeet-shooting; heck, even the sandcaster's an offensive weapon against that kind of soft target. (Which is also High Guard rules: target must be incapable of offensive fire.)

Short of someone coming up with rules for some heavily armored lamprey-like craft that can absorb fire while outmaneuvering the target to clamp ahold of him without inadvertently smashing a whopping big hole in his hull, boarding comes down to the target being unwilling or unable to stop someone from coming into contact with his hull.

 

[aramis]

If ship A can net ship B, then ship B is no longer capable of maneuver. That's letting someone get awful close AND giving them plenty of time to act, neither of which a ship is going to tolerate while it has drives and a crew willing to use them. I can't see someone trying some sort of net-on-the-run trick without high probability of damage to the net, and even then I'd be hard-pressed to rule that you can close the net to create a proper field in that kind of fast-paced circumstance. Ergo, either ship B is already crippled or their crew is already cowed, and you're just jumping someplace where you can negotiate without having the law stick its nose in your business.

Bingo!

The professional demands a PP shutdown & vent. And failing that shoots out the power plant.

The timing is critical - if they are not cold before approach, you ensure that they are, or you abandon the field. You don't risk even closing to point blank unless the target is compliant or incapacitated.

The reason for the jump net is to remove the target from the field immediately after capitulation and before boarding. Ideally, you have friends at the far end, as well - and you claim you do even if you don't - so that the capture is less likely to fight back in boarding action.

 

[Vladika]

Bingo!

The professional demands a PP shutdown & vent. And failing that shoots out the power plant.

The timing is critical - if they are not cold before approach, you ensure that they are, or you abandon the field. You don't risk even closing to point blank unless the target is compliant or incapacitated.

The reason for the jump net is to remove the target from the field immediately after capitulation and before boarding. Ideally, you have friends at the far end, as well - and you claim you do even if you don't - so that the capture is less likely to fight back in boarding action.

And just what stops me from firing a missile, point blank, impossible to miss, right where I want it to go, while this clown is adjusting his eye-patch?

The pirate can't, and knows he can't, take significant damage.

If he doesn't disable your ship, in advance, he's so terminally stupid as to have a very short career.

I dare say I can find a way to fire a missile with a cold PP.

 

[rancke]

And just what stops me from firing a missile, point blank, impossible to miss, right where I want it to go, while this clown is adjusting his eye-patch?

Assuming the pirate has gotten within shooting range of you in the first place, self-preservation should do it. We already established that he was bigger and better armed than you IIRC. As we know from the various ship combat systems (which emulate "reality" so closely), a missile won't assure you of an instant kill. And anything less will result in your destruction, as per SOP for pirates for thousands of years.


Hans

 

[Condottiere]

You could attach a battery to train the turret and launch a missile for a couple of turns, but operating the targetting computer and attached sensors may require more juice.

Or go to the airlock, wait until they're at point blank range and fire a man portable smart missile.

 

[Vladika]

I'm just not in the "oh my, let's give up" group. I'm not letting criminals into my home or on my ship. Who knows what they will or won't do?

A police officer is trained to NEVER give up his gun. I suggest no US Soldier current serving in certain places today would ever surrender to the people they are up against.

I've stated my reasons earlier in this thread, and certainly respect others in their reasons differing from mine.

I might suggest though, if PCs acted that way it would be a short playing session.

 

[aramis]

I'm just not in the "oh my, let's give up" group. I'm not letting criminals into my home or on my ship. Who knows what they will or won't do?

You're also probably not in the "will survive a competent pirate/privateer attack" group. Don't feel bad - most people with military training will try to resist, and most of them WILL die.

Professional privateers remain alive by doing three key things:

1. Avoiding targets they don't outgun
2. Having a reputation for living up to their threats and promises
3. Not taking too big a risk.

Your missile scenario is easily dealt with - "dump your missile racks towards the star" as part of the conditions. If it reloads, they blow you to hell. If you restart the PP, blow you to hell. If you roll it out of view (so as to reload manually) and keep it there, blow you up.

Can't miss range is considerably longer than "can't be intercepted range" - but "Missile Rack Status Can't be hidden" range is longer than "can't be intercepted" range as well. And, a single missile isn't going to be a pirate killer. Under Bk2, a 400-600Td corsair will be sorely inconvenienced at best. Under HG, its almost laughable.

Under TNE, a missile is going to hurt it, but probably not take it out of action, and it will get even.

Also - keep in mind: A privateer or police corvette is 400-1000 tons, and preys upon 200 ton ships, and carries more troops than the ship has crew and passengers.

 

[Patron Zero]

..... Short of someone coming up with rules for some heavily armored lamprey-like craft that can absorb fire while outmaneuvering the target to clamp ahold of him without inadvertently smashing a whopping big hole in his hull, boarding comes down to the target being unwilling or unable to stop someone from coming into contact with his hull.

My thoughts would be a more stealthy unmanned vehicle (read drone) that could be 'seeded' along the 'space-lanes' frequented by merchant ships. Essentially the drone lies in wait and when a ship garners it's notice the chase is on.

 

[SpaceBadger]

If you can get hold of a copy of GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces (which paradoxically includes the Imperial Marines) there is some very good stuff about Marine boarding procedures under various situations, and also some anti-boarding tricks.


EDIT: Apparently out of print, but still available as PDF from e23.

 

[McPerth]

IIRC this was discussed in a Challenge as a way to (teoretically) achieve greater jumps, but usually ended with missjump at best...

I recall that as well, but not where.

IIRC Project Farstar, Challege 33.

The reason for the jump net is to remove the target from the field immediately after capitulation and before boarding. Ideally, you have friends at the far end, as well - and you claim you do even if you don't - so that the capture is less likely to fight back in boarding action.

And that arises to me another question: can EVA boarding opperations be undertaken inside the jump bouble created by the net?

I asume its borders don't follow the ship's shape, but the net's one...

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Ah, Jump EVAs.

IIRC Project Farstar, Challege 33.

And that arises to me another question: can EVA boarding opperations be undertaken inside the jump bouble created by the net?

I asume its borders don't follow the ship's shape, but the net's one...

Don't see why not. I allowed as part of a back story for a PC, his involved a catastrophic accident while in Jump and nessitated his doing an EVA. As long as they remain inside the soft, pale Cherekov blue barrier, then they are mostly fine. Mostly.

In Boothe's case it bumped him from latent psionic to active, as well his now lucky red VaccSuit has a melted section of the heel that was malformed and destroyed. So, it is not without its dangers but it can be done. If anything from normalspace enters jumpspace it is destroyed in the most twisted and mind bendingly horrific fashion and is not recoverable. Which makes disposing of evidence so much more efficient in J-space.

 

[Dagrill]

Could someone please describe for me the steps one takes when combat initiates to approach, board, and claim a ship? Thank you for your time!

Hi,

If you are not using Mongoose Traveller (MgT), take a look at the free Pirates of Drinax downloads on the Mongoose website.

The inference is you pick on targets you know you outgun & you don't need to board, the target dumps say 20 tons of cargo and you scoop it up.

There are rules for stripping a capture as well if the target does resist.

Kind Regards

David

 

[Carlobrand]

And just what stops me from firing a missile, point blank, impossible to miss, right where I want it to go, while this clown is adjusting his eye-patch?

The pirate can't, and knows he can't, take significant damage.

If he doesn't disable your ship, in advance, he's so terminally stupid as to have a very short career.

I dare say I can find a way to fire a missile with a cold PP.

Whether you can find a way to fire something other than that shoulder-fired self-guided number that Condotierre mentioned would be a matter of some debate. Certainly you could not do it with the traditional ship systems. MT requires a lock-on, which ain't happening without active sensors that need power and that he would detect immediately. MT also says the missile turret draws a megawatt of power for its own needs - wow, that's a lot for something that just spits missiles out. Book 5 doesn't say, but the Errata 07 entry for Book 5 says NO weapons including missiles and sandcasters can fire when the power plant is down.

Twilight's Peak gives us crewmen pulling missiles out of a downed ship and rigging them to fire from a hilltop at a hostile ship, so it's clearly possible to rig some sort of ambush. Whether it's worthwhile though is another question. Even at 6G the transit's not instant: if he's careful he'll have a sandcaster or laser ready to deal with missile surprises. If you get past that, High Guard/MT says you might get lucky and knock out a weapon or do some damage to the drive, but you aren't going to take him out of the fight with one salvo, and then it's his turn. One presumes that if you are resorting to ambush, he already holds the combat advantage; a missile ambush, even if successful, is not likely to tip that scale enough to save you from his revenge. And, you're still trying to rev up your power plant while he's having his revenge.

If you can get hold of a copy of GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces (which paradoxically includes the Imperial Marines) there is some very good stuff about Marine boarding procedures under various situations, and also some anti-boarding tricks.


EDIT: Apparently out of print, but still available as PDF from e23.

Ooh, I scored that one at the used book store a few months back! The basics aren't terribly different from High Guard: the target must be unable to maneuver and there must be one approach where point defense weapons are destroyed. After that, it's mostly colorful details.

 

[Dagrill]

Why bother being a pirate in the "traditional" sense? Easier, safer, and more profitable to be a merchant and divert your own cargo claiming "pirate" oh my, we had no choice.
1) What shipper is going to use your services if you just "hand it over"?
2) What insurer is going to underwrite a policy?
3) What finance company is going to extend credit on you future ship or other needs?4) What are the authorities, and the courts, going to think of your conduct?
5) There goes your mail contract, and likely your subsidized route and ship.
of space?.

Do you really have your players spend time looking at insurance?
How much do they pay?
With regard to finance I just use the standard 1/240 of amount borrowed, do you give your players options?

Regards

David

 

[selunatic2397]

The problem I see is that all those promises of..."We'll set you down on a habitable world if you don't fight", seem to be pretty much hollow phrases full of manure.

Just where are they "putting you down"?

Is it inhabited?

Does it have regular shipping setting down so you can go get the evil pirates yet another ship to steal when you settle with your insurance agency?

Are the players, much less random NPC's going to be playing "Caruso-Robinson Family On Planet Promising A Slow Death" ?

Does the legal authorities sanction this happening regularly or do they take it seriously?

Do those "Independant" worlds get off like Somalia with their "Pirates", or do they get punative/crippling sanctions from the real interstellar governments?

Just how do the evil space pirates spread their reputation for sparing crews who surrender if they let them take their ships?

Insurance agencies will probably not say, "Oh well, it was just good old captain stinky pinky, hahahahahahahahaha aint he just a joker!"

Starships are pretty expensive to just laugh off, I see taking players ships as a pretty nasty move for a DM to pull...especially more than once.

No one wants to have their characters working tables at a bar to get the cash to get to the next world's adventure...without starships we're just playing a poor version of shadowrun without magic/cyberwear.

If players want to play merchants, repeatedly stealing their cargo is also a nasty DM move...no one wants to be a punching bag...soon they'll just not even bother showing up/posting anymore.

No sane insurance agency/interstellar bank/government will just lay back and take it over and over and over.

For a DM to use this pirate attack with multiple groups...word does spread fast...I got into a bad habit in a D&D game of taking out the players mounts while they were in a dungeon...20 years later even new gamers know and trash talk me about it.

 

[Vladika]

Do you really have your players spend time looking at insurance?
How much do they pay?
With regard to finance I just use the standard 1/240 of amount borrowed, do you give your players options?

Regards

David

No I don't. The point was that you can't give a ship away and just go get a new one. I don't get into the nitty gritty of the above BUT, if your the kind of captain who is constantly losing a ship no one is going to underwrite you or finance you.

There is an interesting story about Julius Ceaser and pirates. Before he was anything but a grown rich kid he was taken by pirates while a ships passenger. They decided to ransom him for a certain amount and he was insulted by the low figure. He tripled it IIRC and the pirates swore to kill him if it wasn't paid in short order. It was paid and Julius released.

Now Julius, never one to be a pansy, talked the local roman governor out of three navy ships, tracked the pirates down, and executed them. This was AFTER telling the pirates, before his release, exactly what he was going to do. I guess back then men were men?

Back to the future:

Captain Jackleg let's me and the good crew go and, not much later the following coversation is held with an IN officer...'Yes Captain Daring Do, it was an 800dt, 2 decker, cylinder hull, maneuver at least 3 and looked like J2. About 90 meters long and wide with oversize cargo doors opening forward on the ventral surface. 8 triple turrets, missiles and lasers from what we saw...' Yeah, that pirate is looking at a long and prosperous career.

Now back to my missile. IF I need all that power I'll use a jump capacitor or backup batteries. IF that net is in range to surround my ship I could, without doubt, hit him anywhere a felt like it.

Also, if this pirate isn't using the POS CT Corsair (which isn't really any better armed than a Beowulf) and is running around with this mythical 800-1000dt ship, how does piracy pay for that custom ship if a "ships boat, resale 4mCr" is the expected haul? If he's a Privateer, well...Isn't the IN looking pretty hard for him? In either case I'd think they would be. (If piracy is rampant, and they aren't using the POS, why am I not upgraded?) There is ONE instant of a pirate taking an East India-man. ONE and that was by a renegade British Letter of Marque holder who THOUGHT he could get away with it. He was wrong.

In any case he still CAN'T risk any serious damage to his ship. As for the "Golden Age"? A pirates life expectancy was LOW.

A sensible "Professional" Pirate is going to go after easier prey. Something on the order of the "SS Limp D***".

 

[Carlobrand]

...

Now back to my missile. IF I need all that power I'll use a jump capacitor or backup batteries. IF that net is in range to surround my ship I could, without doubt, hit him anywhere a felt like it.
...

And he would hit you back. And he would keep hitting you until he was certain your ship was an utter cripple. And then he would make sure you were very, very dead. And he would make sure your passengers and your crew were very, very dead right along with you. He might let one person live to tell the tale. He would make an example of you, to keep others from having bright ideas. Congratulations: you just got your entire ship's complement killed.

Piracy is the great and never-ending debate in Traveller - how the heck can an Imperium that spends trillions of credits on a single squadron of battlewagons, that can sally forth to war with dozens of such squadrons, not have enough smaller patrol craft to patrol every nook and cranny of the space lanes well enough to extinguish piracy? How can a space economy even function if there's a chance for investors to lose whole multimillion credit ships?

No, no sensible DM is going to pull that card often, and if he does, he's going to pull it very carefully - taking some choice bits of cargo and leaving the player with his ship and a hard lesson in why this backwater Class-D port sees so little merchant traffic. As you point out, the realities of the world we envision are moot if the players don't want to play in it, so there are limits if we want to have players. The DM will mouth some rationalization about the Imperium not caring about backwater ports so long as the pirates aren't TOO successful, or maybe some other popular theory; won't matter as long as you didn't get hurt too much - space pirates are a staple of sci fi, just like mysterious mind powers, however big a stretch of logic they might be.

But, that's not the question here. The question here is: what do you do when your gamemaster tells you the man is pointing nine laser canon at you and saying, "Stand and deliver"? The answer maybe depends on whether you're a scout with only your own life in your hands, or a merchant captain with a wholly inadequate arsenal of weapons to respond with and the lives of three other crew, six awake passengers and 20 passengers in cold sleep to consider.

 

[CosmicGamer]

Piracy is the great and never-ending debate in Traveller

And that's why I pointed to a few of the other threads on this topic earlier instead of rehashing old discussions.

how the heck can an Imperium that spends trillions of credits

Why the assumption that this is occurring within the OTU Imperium? What if one steps into a ATU or just outside the 3I where there are several independent worlds - who might themselves support piracy to one degree or another for a variety of reasons?

I don't believe the OP referenced the setting or location the theoretic piracy is occurring. I believe the OP was just trying to figure out what would and wouldn't work for ship to ship piracy. How to catch them, stop them, board them and such. I hope I have that right? Something more like you say here

But, that's not the question here. The question here is: what do you do when your gamemaster tells you the man is pointing nine laser canon at you and saying, "Stand and deliver"?

What's the range to jump, our speed and vector, their speed and vector, our acceleration, theirs, range, weapons and damage at this and other ranges, and so on.

 

[Condottiere]

1. Julius Caesar & The Pirates - Possibly a tad exaggerated in the interests of self-promotion.

2. Britannia rules the waves - It was in the interest of Empire and it's trade policies to ensure safe navigation, and it had an instrument that was anxious to be employed, and the political will to intervene almost anywhere where those interests lay or were adjoining.

3. You want to keep crews occupied and give junior officers the possibility to gain experience, and piracy suppression provides both in a low risk environment.