• Welcome to the new COTI server. We've moved the Citizens to a new server. Please let us know in the COTI Website issue forum if you find any problems.
  • We, the systems administration staff, apologize for this unexpected outage of the boards. We have resolved the root cause of the problem and there should be no further disruptions.

How exactly does one seize a ship intact?

No I don't. The point was that you can't give a ship away and just go get a new one. I don't get into the nitty gritty of the above BUT, if your the kind of captain who is constantly losing a ship no one is going to underwrite you or finance you.

In any case he still CAN'T risk any serious damage to his ship. As for the "Golden Age"? A pirates life expectancy was LOW.

Hi,

I think we have a different take on piracy, the CT boxed set has a pirate attack on the Beowulf on the front, but I see it as more non-violent, taking cargo rather than the ship.

I see it more confined to frontier areas where you can quickly jump over the border and sell it in a non-imperial port. Once a pirate establishes a reputation for clemency, ships would be more likely to surrender, the problem is establishing the reputation in the first place.

I would add you need some sort of scouting network and if possible to infiltrate the passengers or crew of the target vessel, so you can target valuable ships and get a heads up on what defensive measures the target is taking.

Julius Caesar is a great example of the arm-chair general in RL, but there were probably other young men that tried the same sort of thing and failed and didn't make history.

There were several successful pirates. My favourite is Captain Henry Avery, but I'm probably biased after watching him take to the 52nd century in a starship in Doctor Who.

Kind Regards

David
 
Last edited:
The problem I see is that all those promises of..."We'll set you down on a habitable world if you don't fight", seem to be pretty much hollow phrases full of manure.

Starships are pretty expensive to just laugh off, I see taking players ships as a pretty nasty move for a DM to pull...especially more than once.

If players want to play merchants, repeatedly stealing their cargo is also a nasty DM move...no one wants to be a punching bag...soon they'll just not even bother showing up/posting anymore.

No sane insurance agency/interstellar bank/government will just lay back and take it over and over and over.

Hi,

the only way I see actually taking a starship working is if you are within a jump or 2 of the border and can sell it in the Vargr extents or Sword Worlds (for example). A ship would be very hard to sell at a starport in the Imperium.

If you make sure that there is a reason pirates are operating in certain types of system, the players tend to pick up on it very quickly.

Are cargo's insured? I agree the outcry produces a response from the government, eventually, probably a Tigress or 2 touring affected systems, but a Chrysanthemum is almost as effective.

Kind Regards

David
 
There were several successful pirates. My favourite is Captain Henry Avery, but I'm probably biased after watching him take to the 52nd century in a starship in Doctor Who.

Kind Regards

David

Indeed, the most successful pirate ever. But a 2 year career and one of the largest manhunts ever.

Every was the most notorious pirate of his time; he earned his infamy by becoming one of the few major pirate captains to retire with his loot without being arrested or killed in battle, and also for being the perpetrator of what has been called the most profitable pirate raid in history. Every's career as a pirate lasted only two years

Every eluded capture, vanishing from all records in 1696; his whereabouts and activities after this period are unknown.​
 
Tanks for the Memories

By it's very nature and necessity a Traveller session will have a LOT of Deus ex Machina shenanigans occurring. i.e. the GM is running the campaign, and wants to have his guys and girls come back every Friday or Saturday for a new session. I agree with Carlobrand on that. Now, having some kind of M256 gun co-axially located in a turret could give a nasty surprise. A current circa 2014 A.D. HEAP round will penetrate armor class 66, and a Soviet/Russian Reflex missile fired from an M256 equivalent gun will penetrate armor class 113, according to figures I found on this board and Wikipedia. The current M1/Challenger II/T-80/T-90/Merkava/Leopard II turrets do not require megawatts to operate. The pirates would not take that lying down, of course.
 
... Now, having some kind of M256 gun co-axially located in a turret could give a nasty surprise. A current circa 2014 A.D. HEAP round will penetrate armor class 66, and a Soviet/Russian Reflex missile fired from an M256 equivalent gun will penetrate armor class 113, according to figures I found on this board and Wikipedia. The current M1/Challenger II/T-80/T-90/Merkava/Leopard II turrets do not require megawatts to operate. The pirates would not take that lying down, of course.

Real-world weapons don't necessarily translate well into Traveler-ese. The M256 120mm tank gun, for example, has a kinetic energy penetrator rated with a short-range penetration well in excess of 60cm - depending on the source. It's Striker rating would be something in the 48 to 49 range. Striker, however, gives a TL8 120mm hypervelocity KEAP round a penetration of 39 - which is about half that of the real world 120mm.

(I have not seen a source claiming it could penetrate 320 cm of steel, which is what a rating of 66 translates to.)

The Reflex (aka AT-11 Sniper), meanwhile, is a missile fired through a 125mm gun. It lists in Wikipedia with a penetration of 70-90 cm of steel - Striker ratings about 48 to 51. (That might be off a good bit, but I don't think anyone's claiming 18800 cm of steel, which is what Striker rating of 113 translates to. Striker ratings are - what is that word for when they follow that steep curve?) Without knowing the mass of the Reflex warhead, I can't say exactly what its' Striker equivalent would be, but to mimic the size and range of the missile, I'd ballpark it around a Striker rating of 42.

(It becomes obvious that Striker could use some errata work to bring its weapons in line with modern realities, but it's difficult to do something like that without throwing entirely out of wack most of the Striker-designed vehicles that are out there.)

Nonetheless, a 48 penetration, or even a 42, is quite enough to poke 120mm or 125mm holes in a ship's hull - assuming the target's within a couple or three kilometers. Much more than that, and an alert pirate-pilot can hit his drives and either cause the hit to be taken somewhere other than where you pointed or cause you to miss entirely.

(Actually, I'd suspect that he'd notice the rather daring phallic symbol attached to your turret well before he approached within your effective range, and would direct you to point it elsewhere. Whatever time it took to turn and point the thing back at him would give him warning as well. A person can react in as little as a quarter second, and a Supplement 4 corsair could move a third its length from a standing start in one second. That's not necessarily enough to get away without damage, but it's certainly enough to spoil any thoughts of aiming at a specific point.)

The problem comes after that: one can hardly say that the KEAP round or HEAT missile are going to do more damage than a laser or missile at that range. The good ol' standard 250 MW pulse laser has a hefty penetration of 79, 1000 cm steel, enough to punch through the ship's hull, through the ship, and out the ship's hull on the other side at that range.* The good ol' standard space missile is certainly not going to do worse than its planet-based cousin. Your cannon gets one hit that might maybe have done a bit of damage to the maneuver drive, more likely takes out a weapon or vents a bit of hydrogen, assuming the gamemaster resorts to the Book 5 damage table - during which time he's hitting his drives for all that's left to them. Then, as you say, he does not take it lying down: he rains missiles or lasers down on you from far beyond the effective range of your now-useless cannon.

It is, in other words, a rather expensive but nicely dramatic method of flippin' the hawk off before he kills you.

*(Most of its space combat performance occurs at what would be considered extreme range for that weapon, where the penetration drops to a "mere" 63: 250 cm of steel. It is arguably correct to allow the fellow with the laser to have a -5 bonus on the damage roll if your roleplaying situation has him firing from inside 166 kilometers.)
 
Step one: Longshoremen approach the ship's cargomaster with an offer to help unload the hold. Get told "go away"

Step two: ask for donation to the longshoremen Widows and orphans fund. Get told "Go away".

Step three: Have longshoremen retreat saying "nice ship you have there, it would be a shame if anything happened to anyone aboard it."

Step four: watch for the cargomaster, jump him, break every bone in both hands, bust a few ribs, but make certain that the Cargomaster lives so that he can be put into hospital.

Step five: Make certain that there is a friendly grandfatherly type merchanter about to retire, and have a LOT of really scudsy potential replacements for the now hospitalized cargomaster. This friendly grandfatherly type is of course, a Pirate.

Step six: Inform the target that "I'm retiring and need to get to <fill in planet name here>. I don't want a full time gig, and am willing to work for passage to <fill in name of planet here>. Do everything to IMPRESS the living daylights out of the captain of the target ship - even bake him a few cakes or what have you. NOTHING too expensive or he'll smell a rat.

Step seven: Sneak aboard some of the following:
Bio-cultures designed to make people sick
Sedatives
Fast Drug
Fast Counter-agent
Doctored Fast Drug (works for 24 hours only).

Step eight: Make certain that you have 2 "patsies" (otherwise known as normal passengers). Make certain that you get a bunch of trained crew to take over the ship once it is yours. These will all be passengers.

Step nine: Infect two passengers with bio-culture - via food. Feed bioculture to Chief engineer as well.

Step 10: Infect self with weakened bioculture so as to make it look like the plague is affecting both passengers and crew. All of this takes place during the Jump phase.

Step 11: infect captain but leave Navigator free. Place Engineer in Low Berth to save his life. Offer to place captain in fast drug state to slow down metabolism of disease - have counter agent to bring captain up to speed if an emergency develops.

Step 12: Indicate the disease has gone too far for the primary instigator - the temporary ship's purser/steward/cargohandler. Make certain that ALL of the vac-suits are infected and suggest to surviving navigator "Get into a vac suit to isolate yourself from the disease, you should have sufficient air bottles for remainder of voyage". Navigator is likely to follow protocols regarding a plague ship, right down to turning off the anti-hijack program so that the rescuers can take sick crew off ship and/or render aid to those too sick to take care of themselves.

Step 13: As a back up plan, have memory cores for the ship's computer on hand to swap out with the original memory cores for the ship. This way, all software required to run the ship is installed on the core without needing to know the passwords, security arrangements etc currently resident on the ship's primary system.

This plan depends upon the ship having multiple jumps to go through in order to get to where the ship captain wants to go and then return to get the hospitalized original purser/steward/cargo master. The point this "ambush" is pulled requires that the starport be a class C or worse to have any real decent chance of success.

Note that the "temporary" steward will have access to the food, is not likely to be trusted with bridge access, and will also have access to the passengers. Those passengers who are not part of the plan, can be neutralized through drugs or biocultures. The crew can be given doctored food and/or drinks. They can also be given sedatives and/or stimulants to make the crew less than alert or feeling hyper and sick.

Of course, this plan won't work with a doctor or med-tech aboard, but then again, you make your plans accordingly
 
Now that I think about it, I did go linearly with the damage potential; that may not be correct. I based it on the assumption that Trav armor rating 40 == 336 mm Hard steel, and then how much damage the M256 and Reflex are capable of. I ran the Excel spreadsheet down and went "Wow!" when looking at the numbers.
 
Steps 12 & 13.

Step 12: I don't know what kind of TU you run Hal, but the last thing the Navigator is going to do is disable the Anti-Hijack Program, I would have such a Navigator put in chains for trial when and if we live to see a spaceport or hospital ship tried for dereliction of duty.

You never make it easy to board a plague ship, you make it about as impossible as you can. Your duty as a Sophont is prevent, not encourage the spread of a pathogen. Thus you are required to broadcast the fact that you have a contagion on board, all information regarding that contagion along with the current manifests and medical data for the infected. You are to lock down the ship and separate individuals as much as possible and when and if rescue comes comply with all legal orders. Not doing so can lead to potential fatalities and no one wants that. Not to mention the fines and confiscations.

Step 13: Exactly how do you plan on switching out the most secure component of the ship, its CPU/Memory cores or possibly even Brain in a Jar?

EDIT: Also, best make sure this rube crewed ship of yours does not have the Frontier smarts to have an auto-doc or proper infirmary to heal up in while we make sure that the folks that put our cargomaster in the aforementioned med section get a dose of their own medicine, in fact perhaps riffing on DREDD 3D literally dose them, with Slow Drug. That my friends is called a mini-adventure. :devil: The Hunt for the Stupids: The Cargomaster's Revenge!

Oh and before the Ref asks or thinks we are the Stupids we wear local clothes and gloves and masks, hell prosthetics if we got someone with the skills or knowledges. The plan is not having identity confirmed but swimming in the back of their heads next time they beat down an offworlder. They need to learn to play nice with Travellers and stick to robbing the local bank.
 
Last edited:
Step 12: I don't know what kind of fool's TU you run Hal, but the last thing the Navigator is going to do is disable the Anti-Hijack Program, I would have such a Navigator put in chains for trial when and if we live to see a spaceport or hospital ship tried for dereliction of duty.

Interesting Magnus. I'll keep this short and sweet.

You get what you give. You no longer exist for me.

Added Comment:

Interesting - an abusive Moderator who can't be placed on ignore. Not only does it sadden me that you are in fact, abusive, but that you are also a moderator. That does not bode well for the well being of this forum.
 
Last edited:
Interesting indeed.

Interesting Magnus. I'll keep this short and sweet.

You get what you give. You no longer exist for me.
Funny thing here is no where did I give you non-existence. What I gave was a rather minor comment on the intelligence of letting a pathogen get easy access to more infection vectors.

Now, perhaps you find the term "[REDACATED] TU" harsh on your feelings, but it wasn't meant to. It does seem to me to be an accurate description of a space traveling society that does not isolate and discourage the spread of pathogens. It is not a personal attack, it is a perhaps overly aggressive invitation to explain why a society should set a plague ship to be readily opened by just any Sophont that happens upon it. Seems like a mighty quick way to spread something that might wipe out entire populations, so I for one would like to know how you justify such a dangerous action as disabling anti-hijack features?

[REDACTED] as it was kinda dickish and I figure I better cool my jets a bit.

Either way, I am surprised at your reaction, but terribly dismayed. Nor did I make you non-existent. *sighs* Ah, the Internet, home to the over-reaction. :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
And another thing...

And Hal, if you would, on Step 13 how do you pull the Computer Cores in Jump? With no computer you have no functioning components.

"Library offline, local network offline. Auxillery Computer functions offline. Hardpoints locked and offline, Weapons offline, Defenses offline. Gunnery offline. PowerPlant offline, Jump Drive offline, Manuever Drive offline, Life Support offline. Engineering offline. All component processes and their children have been killed. You may now shut down the Sophont Interface System and the Computer will initiate Core Shutdown. Continue: Yes, No, Abort, Retry?" :devil:
 
Last edited:
Why do people keep thinking I am a Mod?

Interesting Magnus. I'll keep this short and sweet.

You get what you give. You no longer exist for me.

Added Comment:

Interesting - an abusive Moderator who can't be placed on ignore. Not only does it sadden me that you are in fact, abusive, but that you are also a moderator. That does not bode well for the well being of this forum.
Look, calling into question a society that opens up plague ships willy-nilly got me a nice Yellow Card because of my choice for describing your TU as inferred by your plan and mention of protocols that have a crew member of a plague ship disengage the various anti-hijack systems. Fine, I will eat that. Under protest, but I will eat it, I did use the word after all. But I do take some offense at being characterized as an "abusive Mod".

I am not at the time of this posting any sort of Mod outside my little Play by Post Subforum and I think I have done a right fair job of not abusing my limited powers therein. However, you can ask my players if you wish independent confirmation.

Dude, I got no issues with you personally, my inter-personal squabbles are well known. Me v. Supp4 and Hans. :devil: But even there I don't have that big an issue with them out here in the Commons (the Pit can be another matter, there it is a bit more personal as politics often are). Hell, for all my harping on Supp4 for his T5 hating I still would happily game with him?her?it? Funny, I just realized I pretty much have no idea who Supp4 is in meatspace. *shrugs* Either way, no matter, point is I don't bear that kind of malice towards people I barely know.

Now, plans for pirates, well as a firm supporter of the Imperial Navy and the ages old laws and traditions of "All Pirates Must Hang!", them I bear malice aforethought and look to stop them before they come to fruition. I am all sorts of good guy, loyal Noble and stuff.

Look, I am sorry if I hurt your feeling. It wasn't my intention. I was hasty in my choice of words, but it seemed to fit. Still not sure what word to use, perhaps "dangerous TU"? I think such a place might qualify as "scary TU" as well. Would one of these terms cause less offense and get you to come back and debate this? Please?

And just so you know this is not some sort of mandated apology. The Mandate was to delete the Insulting Term, which after logging my protest, I did quickly. There was nothing further, you might of liked it short and short, missing a lot of the sweet. :)
 
And Hal, if you would, on Step 13 how do you pull the Computer Cores in Jump? With no computer you have no functioning components.

"Library offline, local network offline. Auxillery Computer functions offline. Hardpoints locked and offline, Weapons offline, Defenses offline. Gunnery offline. PowerPlant offline, Jump Drive offline, Manuever Drive offline, Life Support offline. Engineering offline. All component processes and their children have been killed. You may now shut down the Sophont Interface System and the Computer will initiate Core Shutdown. Continue: Yes, No, Abort, Retry?" :devil:
And what kind of a [term you might use] TU do you run where one single failure, the computer, can take out every single system in a ship? No backups or manual systems?

Second, I'm certainly no expert on all the vast supplemental rules of all the different versions of Traveller, but from what I do know, the game mechanics, not the TU, are such that while certain software will help aid in maneuver or gunnery or whatnot, there is no specific requirement for a computer for these systems to operate.
 
A fool's TU obvisously. :)

And what kind of a [term you might use] TU do you run where one single failure, the computer, can take out every single system in a ship? No backups or manual systems?

Second, I'm certainly no expert on all the vast supplemental rules of all the different versions of Traveller, but from what I do know, the game mechanics, not the TU, are such that while certain software will help aid in maneuver or gunnery or whatnot, there is no specific requirement for a computer for these systems to operate.
Yes, that does seem to be smidge foolish, but them is the rules I have always used due to the way computers work in most versions I have messed with. Now, in truth looking at the T5 rules, you can have multiple computers on board and isolated, but old CT wherein I learned my Travellers' lore it seemed pretty plain that the Ship's Computer was the sole machine running all the ship's systems and software.

I will admit, I am keen on the newest computer rules, but by most versions there is only one Ship's Computer. Now, if Hal is using High Guard then my question is not so obnoxious as HG allows for a back up computer which would allow one computer to be shutdown without endangering the ship. Still have the issue of getting past the security systems, but at least you won't kill the ship if you do manage it.
 
And what kind of a [term you might use] TU do you run where one single failure, the computer, can take out every single system in a ship? No backups or manual systems?
At the very least the life support system would be a completely independent system.

(IMTU, that is).

Several of C.J. Cherryh's books feature merchant spacers, and they are all exceedingly paranoid about getting their ships hijacked. They have elaborate precautions that would delight or appall your average player depending on what side of the hijacking he was on. One security feature is a computer system that is effectively impossible to hack, requiring a ship's officer to give up the access code before someone else can use the ship.


Hans
 
To use a statement written by a writer now sadly deceased...

"Young man," Harkaman reproved, "the conversation was between Lord Trask and myself. And when somebody makes a statement you don't understand, don't tell him he's crazy. Ask him what he means.
What do you mean, Lord Trask?"

Had a certain someone said "Why would anyone want to do something that foolish." I would have smiled and taken that as an invitation to explain myself rather than be told I was being an idiot. That it came as it did without warning, was akin to taking a warm or hot shower only to have a certain mischievous kid turn the hot water valve off. Not that my kid did that to me... ;)

That having been said, I would not take it upon myself to tell another individual "You're running a fool traveller universe." While I may not agree with someone's interpretations of the game, or agree with one game system's rendition of the rules and claim that anyone who utilizes a system I don't like is an idiot/fool/jerk/(you all may easily get my drift here) - I don't think it helps to place people on the defensive about how they want to run their campaigns. I wouldn't like it done to me (obviously) and I certainly wouldn't feel good about doing it to someone else.

So, nuff said on the personal stuff.
 
Step one: ...

In other words, organized crime. I'd quibble with a number of details - Magnus's observations are spot on - but the central idea is that people working together with adequate intelligence-gathering, a well-thought-out plan (this one needs a little tweaking, but the broad concept of running some sort of a grift or swindle is a good one), and the right people bought off or intimidated can accomplish quite a lot. Unstated but assumed is that these longshoreman have means to act with relative impunity - officials bribed to look the other way, maybe, or a larger criminal heirarchy with the resources and means to obstruct justice by other methods - and that they have means to extract value from their prize once it's in hand. Organized crime is really the only way for any sort of piracy to work for any length of time.

And, it sets its own limits. Organized crime that profits from the occasional tramp freighter who's captain won't pay his insurance will tend to get overlooked; organized crime that starts affecting the profit margins of the powerful - that tends to attract unhealthy attention.
 
Back
Top