K'Kree Starship Design questions...

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

What Lords, are the difference associated with K'Kree Naval Architecture? I know about the flattened Sphere configuration, but are bridge and accomodations values different? Is, for example a K'Kree "Cabin" or "Stateroom" 8 dtons instead of four? do they have different internal conventions at work from normal Starship Construction? Facts and Speculation is indeed welcome...

 

[mike wightman]

Well, for a start they are big. They are built in multiples of 1000t. Each K'kree on board has to be provided with at least a 48t minimum of open space, unless they have the enclosure skill in which case they can get away with half of that.
When drawing up deck plans all open spaces should be combined into one large open space where possible, including the bridge controls.
There is an example of a K'kree deck plan in a Challenge magazine IIRC.
Hope this helps.
Mike.

 

[aramis]

Most are single deck for hab, and a "Subdeck" for drives, LS, all the other machinery. And that single deck is ONE room, with no real walls. Tall consoles, in some areas, but no real walls. Central support pillar, too.

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

I thought I had seen some representations of the K'kree ships having a hexagonally-celled central dome, did you gentlemen see that as well?

Also, any input as to what a acceleration couch control seat would look like, or do they even use furniture of that sort?

Also, an "organic" and "in tune with nature" type design philosophy was mentioned, i think in an earlier post last year... does that sound familiar?

 

[mike wightman]

Yep, holographic ceiling and walls giving the illusion of rolling prairies (complete with Dulinor Class Combine Harvesters

) and real "grass" flooring.

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

what about a series of concentric hull "shells"? would that not facilitate all sorts of K'Kree doings, as they would sort of run around on the open decks ala running around on the outside of a spheroid shape... that and a holographic ceiling...

did I see somewhere that the K'Kree have a larger/more finite life support requirements?

 

[Andrew Boulton]

There are 3 main problems:

1. K'kree are bigger than humans, so life support, workstations, etc need to be bigger.

http://www.downport.com/~bard/bard/sara/sara7012.html suggests

K'kree Accomodations: 672 kL; 48 tons; 0.012 MW; MCr 1.
K'kree Airlocks: 36 kL; 2.4 tons; 0.012 MW; MCr 0.06; 20 square meters.
K'kree Workstations (TL13): 168/84 kL; 0.2 tons; MCr 0.002.

2. K'kree are claustrophobic, so ships tend to be pretty open-plan inside, with high ceilings and holographic displays of rolling countryside.

3. K'kree get lonely, so they like to travel in herds. For every crew member you can probably add one or two family members, except on military or really big civilian ships.

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

Human Airlocks in t20 are 3 tons, why is the K'Kree version smaller?

 

[aramis]

Baron, You're confusing Mass-Tons (Megagrams) with displacement tons (14kiloLiters)

And the figures from that web site don't jive with what I remember of AS2: K'Kree.

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

so what would the displacement of a K'Kree airlock? Also, what about freshers?

 

[aramis]

672KL=48 Td
36KL=~2.6Td
168Kl=12Td
84KL=6Td

MT, TNE, T4 all use kiloliters for volume measurements as a general design rule. MT assumed a TonDisplacementH2 (Td) of 13.5KL, the others assumed 14KL.
CT used Tons of 14KL, but design in displacement tons only.
GT is actually built around cubic yards...
T20 uses dtons, like CT, of 14KL.

The above data is apparently for FF&S (TNE/T4) since MT doesn't use workstations, so I converted usig 14KL=1Td

 

[aramis]

Also, for HG, note that K'Kree TL 9-10 PP are still x4 for size, not the x3 that HG says.
AS2 also says MCr1 for a 48Td accomodation, this is per person.
Crew requirements differ slightly as well.
•1 pilot
•1 navigator
•1 egnineer per 100 Td drives
•1 technician per engineer; usually a sevant of the engineer.
•1 gunner per gun, remote fired, usually drawn from bodyguards of other crewmembers
•1 medic (Med2+) per 25 K'Kree OR
•1 medic (Medical 2+) plus 3 servants (Medical 1) per 50 K'Kree

Note that accomodations per crewman will be for usually 3-18 K'Kree, as you must count servants and wives (but not children).

 

[mike wightman]

Challenge 28 has full details and deck plan(s) for a 6000t K'kree merchant ship. The article is entitled K'kree Starships: A Human Perspective.
The ship is a Xeekr'kir! Class Merchant. 3552dt are given over to accomodating the crew of 6 plus family members etc up to a total of 74 individuals (including the crew). It has jump 2, power plant 2 and maneuver 1. 34dt of cargo can be carried plus 48dt per individual not carried. It has 12 hardpoints and 24dt set aside for fire control.

Notable features:

central support "tree" which controls all of the artificial habitation control systems;

occasional mist and rainfall;

waste removal bacteria;

the smell (see above);

an engineering sub-deck containing all of the drives and an immobile master engineering robot plus 4 slave robots.

The humans who wrote the article said they had to pitch tents in the grass to provide shelter to sleep in and they had to wear filter masks for most of the trip until used to the aromas.

Hope this helps.

Mike

 

[mike wightman]

The airlock/entrance ramp takes up ~24dt according to the deck plan. Allowing for 1.5 times normal ceiling height I would say 36dt in total or 12 times human normal size, just like their accomodation requirements. And just in case you missed it, K'kree don't use freshers! That's what the grass, soil and bacteria are for.

 

[marginaleye]

Oh, gee...
So not only are the K'kree insufferably arrogant bastards, they're also barnyard-filthy, too. What a wonderfully charismatic bunch. I bet the ecological maintenance engineers of non-K'kree artifical habitats (space stations, bases on airless worlds, and so forth) just love it when K'kree show up, spreading their alien bacteria all over the place with their filthy feet, mucking up (literally!) the local artifical micro-ecology.

Is there anything we could do to make the K'kree less charismatic than they already are? Maybe they eat babies, too. Oh, wait... never mind.

 

[vutpakdi]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:

The humans who wrote the article said they had to pitch tents in the grass to provide shelter to sleep in and they had to wear filter masks for most of the trip until used to the aromas.

In the late 1800's to the turn of the century, a significant number of cases of respiratory problems in major cities were attributed to the quantities of dried, powdered horse manure in the air. One of the arguments for going towards vehicles equipped with internal combustion engines and other non-horse powered vehicles was to *improve* the quality of the air.

All of that said, it seems that the K'Kree would still be a bit more fastidious than the article states. Either pooping a specific area or having a robot or family member gathering up waste to take to a particular area for breakdown (using natural means, so, to some degree, it'd still stink).

Ron

 

[mike wightman]

All of that said, it seems that the K'Kree would still be a bit more fastidious than the article states.

I can't believe that this has become a topic for discussion , but here goes.
The article mentions the special odour emitters designed to produce all the native smells of Kirur, plus the body odours of a plains herd of thousands.
As to the waste problem it says the grass and bacteria have been genetically engineered to break the waste down much faster than normal. Many Imperial world are fearful of the environmental impact this airborne bacteria would have if it got loose from the ship and so isolate K'kree ships. It is stressed that this fear is unfounded, the bacteria can only live thanks to its symbiotic relationship with the grass.

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

I think all of the concepts outlined above are spot on, and very helpful! Many Thanks, Lords!

Most lower-order mammals have a dedicated "midden pile" to poop in/on, while most Herbivores are very "fire and forget" in almost every Circumstance... poo is important in factoring in a balanced microecosystem, of course...

The Pheromone Ejectors also make very good sense , and fit the concept to a teee...

what about the drones? Are they like Fighter- Sized robots? Do they use a launch tube system for them? ... I also saw somewhere that they have some sort of battledress rig too, or is that a full on War robot? ...

 

[marginaleye]

Setting the whole issue of K'kree shipboard micro-ecology and waste-processing technologies aside for a moment, a more serious question: How did these guys ever get to be a serious starfaring power? Given their extraordinarily restrictive claustrophobia, it ought to be all but impossible for them to get a decent warship aloft. They're too paranoid and/or arrogant to delegate shipboard tasks to sophisticated warbots, or to non-claustrophobic slave-races, too. This might not be a problem if they had no spacefaring enemies, but that's just not the case. As I see it, only the disorganization of the Vargr and the cautious pacifism of the Hivers keep the K'kree from being handed defeat after crushing, humiliating defeat. The outcome of any Trillion Credit Squadron campaign in which one side is obliged to build its ships as the K'kree do, and the other is not, seems pretty certain. Do the K'kree just have absurdly large naval budgets, churning out great fleets of easily defeated warships? I honestly don't get it. Their inability to build decent tanks, and their fondness for sticking together in huge groups as infantry, probably makes them cannon-fodder on the ground, too.

As I see it, the K'kree would make great villains for, say, a Tech Level 3 planet (in which they could play a role akin to that of the nomadic horsemen of central Asia, only without the horses), but for technological warfare, the unrestrained savagery of "militant herbivores" doesn't seem like very much of an advantage.

 

[flykiller]

How did these guys ever get to be a serious starfaring power?

hatred. drugs. unity and centralized planning. manifest destiny. aggressive fear of carnivores. seventy sloe-eyed virgin harems in _this_ life. better sensors and tactics. economic, political, ecological, and philosophical pre-assault preparation. massive reproduction to replace losses. luck and timing. badly organized enemies. hiver assistance.