Services and their Weapons
- Thread starter Golan2072
- Start date
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
It is a well thought out design, pity it has to look so utilitarian. Yet somehow it has a functional beauty I find appealling. Just a bit conflicted
Nice job on the wrap btw.
How do you find it to shoot? Any complaints with the squeeze trigger? Do you know (ballpark, offhand) what they sell for? Just curious.
How do you find it to shoot? Any complaints with the squeeze trigger? Do you know (ballpark, offhand) what they sell for? Just curious.
Just out f curiosity, what is the mass of the plasma weapon?
What does the scout do when he's on a TL 3 planet and his weapon breaks down? Doesn't a high tech weapon sort of mark him as an off worlder?
Enquiring minds want to know.
And what is this facination with snub weapons, any way. In CT, at least, they aren't worth spit at more than a few meters range. Personally, I want the action to take place as far away as possible.
Snub pistol range matrix
C S M L VL
HE no +2 -8 no no
HEAP +1 +2 -8 no no
Tranq +1 +2 -8 no no
At anything over 5 meters (the end of short), your chance of hitting is right down the toilet - impossible at 50 meters.
Further aside: Bell was successful using the .275 Rigby (7x57) because he perfected the rear quartering shot. A lot of hunters were killed trying to emulate him. For some time it was believed that his cartridge of choice was the 6.5 Mannlicher, mostly because he favored this rifle, but in 7x57. Most contempraries of Bell (like Stigand or Praetorius) were using large bore guns - typically of .400-500 caliber
What does the scout do when he's on a TL 3 planet and his weapon breaks down? Doesn't a high tech weapon sort of mark him as an off worlder?
Enquiring minds want to know.
And what is this facination with snub weapons, any way. In CT, at least, they aren't worth spit at more than a few meters range. Personally, I want the action to take place as far away as possible.
Snub pistol range matrix
C S M L VL
HE no +2 -8 no no
HEAP +1 +2 -8 no no
Tranq +1 +2 -8 no no
At anything over 5 meters (the end of short), your chance of hitting is right down the toilet - impossible at 50 meters.
Further aside: Bell was successful using the .275 Rigby (7x57) because he perfected the rear quartering shot. A lot of hunters were killed trying to emulate him. For some time it was believed that his cartridge of choice was the 6.5 Mannlicher, mostly because he favored this rifle, but in 7x57. Most contempraries of Bell (like Stigand or Praetorius) were using large bore guns - typically of .400-500 caliber
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
I think Sigg was joking about using a plasma carbine, I was anyway
I don't know the stats.
Scouts trying to blend in (which they do imtu) would as you note not want something that stands out. Hence imtu they favour body pistols, which by the original definition are not so much small undetectable pistols but often small undetectable pistols that are disguised as something banal. It's better than nothing.
Of course if the local culture is everyone walks around armed to the teeth then the Scout will want to do the same.
Scouts trying to blend in (which they do imtu) would as you note not want something that stands out. Hence imtu they favour body pistols, which by the original definition are not so much small undetectable pistols but often small undetectable pistols that are disguised as something banal. It's better than nothing.
Of course if the local culture is everyone walks around armed to the teeth then the Scout will want to do the same.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Nope, no joke.
Well, maybe a little one
The plasma carbine is an extension of the plasma pistol discussion Zparkz and I had a while back...
here's the link.
perfectly possible design with FF&S and the plasma/fusion gun errata.
Well, maybe a little one
The plasma carbine is an extension of the plasma pistol discussion Zparkz and I had a while back...
here's the link.
perfectly possible design with FF&S and the plasma/fusion gun errata.
Unfortunately, Springfield has discontinued the original scout, and has a new version. I paid $300 for the stainless model show here, NIB.Originally posted by far-trader:
It is a well thought out design, pity it has to look so utilitarian. Yet somehow it has a functional beauty I find appealling. Just a bit conflictedNice job on the wrap btw.
How do you find it to shoot? Any complaints with the squeeze trigger? Do you know (ballpark, offhand) what they sell for? Just curious.
It's definitely something that designed to fit in a small space (originally part oif a pilot's bail out kit). The trigger takes some getting used to, but the odd design wil allow you to shoot the rifle even with a couple of broken fingers. At 50 yards, I can dispatch gophers rather easily, and the shotgun will take care of reasonably sized birds at about half that range.
The wrap is nice because it not only makes a better hand grip, be gives you a few meters of very useful parachute cord. A few people have turned the M6 into a complete grab-and-go survival system.
http://www.oldjimbo.com/survival/v-shrake/m6.html
I tossed the trigger guard because the original didn't have one and it prevents folding the rifle completely - dang lawyers! The original also had a more compact 14 inch barrel length, but unless you want to pay the $200 tax...
IMTU (which is TL12 max):
- Solar Triumvirate Marines use Gauss Rifles (with underbarrel RAM grenade launcher, same stats as LBB4, but not a "rifle grenade" but an underbarrel launcher) as their main firearm, with PGMP-12's and TAC missiles for support; they use cutlasses for training and excersize purposes only, and use bayonets in melee combat instead. Alliance Marines skip the cutlass altogather and go straight to the bayonet. All Marine forces are TL12.
- The Solar Triumvirate Army Infantry uses mostly locally-available (i.e. by world TL) rifles, progressing to Assault Rifles by TL7 and to ACRs by TL9; Gauss Rifles exist in TL12 forces but are used mostly for sniper and marksmanship purposes due to expenses and logistics issues (TL12 world's aren't THAt common IMTU).
- Solar Triumvirate Army Artillery and Cavalry use SMGs as self-defence weapons; by TL7 they switch to Assault Rifles with folding stocks (for easier carrying and stowage, think Galil MAR). Artillery Forward Observers carry Laser Carbines by TL8 and Laser Rifles by TL9 for target designation and self-defence applications.
- Solar Triumvirate Commandoes of all kinds mostly use Gauss Rifles or SMGs (varied by mission), as well as detachable bayonets for close-in work (usable either as a rifle bayonet or a dagger); other weapons are issued to them as the mission demands (anything from knives to suitcase nukes).
- The Solar Triumvirate Navy issues Laser Pistols (they are TL11, right?) to all sailors as their sidearms, as these weapons are useful in Zero-G (no recoil) and vaccuum (great range) as well as in many kinds of atmospheres, and are easily recharged on shipboard (no ammonition needed!); each sailor is also provided with a multi-purpose knife. Laser Carbines and Laser Rifles are also available for Away Mission use.
- The Solar Triumvirate Exploration Service (STES, Scouts-equivalent) issues auto-pistols and Blades to its members as sidearms; Carbines, Shotguns, Machetes and Body Pistols are also available as standard equipment in Scout-ship lockers. Other weapons are issued as the specific mission requires. The key here is relayability and versatility.
- Due to the risk of piracy, and, far more often, privateering-wars between corporations, Merchant (especially corporate) Ships in the Solar Triumvirate are allowed to carry weapons under the following regulaions:
1) All personal slug-throwers (i.e. anything from a body pistol to a Gauss Rifle, but not LMGs or above) are allowed for Merchant ship use, as are all normal melee weapons and personal Lasers (Carbine, Rifle and Pistol).
2) A Merchant vessel is allowed to carry 2 slugthrowers, one laser and three melee weapons per crew member, as well as ten full clips/reloads (or three power packs for lasers) for each weapon; any more requires an Arms Dealer's Lisence.
3) Merchant crews are allowed to carry their weapons onboard their ship and inside the starport, but outside the starport local world regulations (i.e. Law Level) apply.
- Solar Triumvirate Marines use Gauss Rifles (with underbarrel RAM grenade launcher, same stats as LBB4, but not a "rifle grenade" but an underbarrel launcher) as their main firearm, with PGMP-12's and TAC missiles for support; they use cutlasses for training and excersize purposes only, and use bayonets in melee combat instead. Alliance Marines skip the cutlass altogather and go straight to the bayonet. All Marine forces are TL12.
- The Solar Triumvirate Army Infantry uses mostly locally-available (i.e. by world TL) rifles, progressing to Assault Rifles by TL7 and to ACRs by TL9; Gauss Rifles exist in TL12 forces but are used mostly for sniper and marksmanship purposes due to expenses and logistics issues (TL12 world's aren't THAt common IMTU).
- Solar Triumvirate Army Artillery and Cavalry use SMGs as self-defence weapons; by TL7 they switch to Assault Rifles with folding stocks (for easier carrying and stowage, think Galil MAR). Artillery Forward Observers carry Laser Carbines by TL8 and Laser Rifles by TL9 for target designation and self-defence applications.
- Solar Triumvirate Commandoes of all kinds mostly use Gauss Rifles or SMGs (varied by mission), as well as detachable bayonets for close-in work (usable either as a rifle bayonet or a dagger); other weapons are issued to them as the mission demands (anything from knives to suitcase nukes).
- The Solar Triumvirate Navy issues Laser Pistols (they are TL11, right?) to all sailors as their sidearms, as these weapons are useful in Zero-G (no recoil) and vaccuum (great range) as well as in many kinds of atmospheres, and are easily recharged on shipboard (no ammonition needed!); each sailor is also provided with a multi-purpose knife. Laser Carbines and Laser Rifles are also available for Away Mission use.
- The Solar Triumvirate Exploration Service (STES, Scouts-equivalent) issues auto-pistols and Blades to its members as sidearms; Carbines, Shotguns, Machetes and Body Pistols are also available as standard equipment in Scout-ship lockers. Other weapons are issued as the specific mission requires. The key here is relayability and versatility.
- Due to the risk of piracy, and, far more often, privateering-wars between corporations, Merchant (especially corporate) Ships in the Solar Triumvirate are allowed to carry weapons under the following regulaions:
1) All personal slug-throwers (i.e. anything from a body pistol to a Gauss Rifle, but not LMGs or above) are allowed for Merchant ship use, as are all normal melee weapons and personal Lasers (Carbine, Rifle and Pistol).
2) A Merchant vessel is allowed to carry 2 slugthrowers, one laser and three melee weapons per crew member, as well as ten full clips/reloads (or three power packs for lasers) for each weapon; any more requires an Arms Dealer's Lisence.
3) Merchant crews are allowed to carry their weapons onboard their ship and inside the starport, but outside the starport local world regulations (i.e. Law Level) apply.
Interesting about Bell and the quartering shot. That is also considered a highly lethal shot by bow hunters. I was under the impresssion that the 6.5 Mannlicher with RN FMJ bullets were used for brain shots during the early 20th century, by several hunters less distinguished than Bell.
We liked the snub machine gun because under our Stryker rules it was good out to 10-15 m, which covered most lines of sight inside a 100-500 dton starship. And the effects of the HEAP and Tranq were to useful to ignore.
We liked the snub machine gun because under our Stryker rules it was good out to 10-15 m, which covered most lines of sight inside a 100-500 dton starship. And the effects of the HEAP and Tranq were to useful to ignore.
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Just a question (not a snipe at your stuff, 2-4601), but why would anybody above TL-8 use a laser for designation? The disadvantages (a seeker can't distinguish which end is which, the bad guys know they are being designated if they have the right tech, battlefield impediments) outweigh the advantages when compared to a GPS-like targetting system. And, you don't have to have a whole lot of satellites to get the capability.
As long as you have technological superiority, GPS-like systems are fine. But they do rely on some sort of emitter for positioning data, just like LORAN. Those emitters can be targeted.
At higher TL, smart systems will probably be able to locate targets without designators, using anything from simple passive detectors to optical recognition - show the kill vehicle the target and tell it "sick 'em".
IMTU satellite navigation and positioning systems like GPS are the first to be shot down by an invading force. Most interstellar armies rely on other ways to target enemies at all distances. Laser designation are one. Robots with preprogrammed maps and target identifications and priority.
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Well, you don't have to use satellites - you DO have some ships in orbit, don't you? If not, you can still use map and visual ID. Laser designation, though, is a high risk occupation.
(Remember Murphy's Law about tracers? It applies to laser designators, as well. We were required to bring in aircraft from directly behind us if we were lasing a target so they wouldn't accidentally bomb us instead.)
(Remember Murphy's Law about tracers? It applies to laser designators, as well. We were required to bring in aircraft from directly behind us if we were lasing a target so they wouldn't accidentally bomb us instead.)
One of the interesting features of the Traveller laser is certainly it's flexibility. As you correcty observed, CT notes that not only can the laser rifle/carbine be used as a weapon, it can also illuminate targets. For that matter, it could also potentially be used as a cutting tool. Depending on how you treat laser weapons IYTU, they could be very handy indeed - never mind the fact that they have no recoil, essentially zero time of flight and don't require sighting adjustmenst for wind and distance.
N.I.C.E. Labs
SOC-12
For me, I see a lot of the weapon choices being dictated by the jobs and the situations they find themselves in.
For example, it's been noted that merchants use pretty much whatever they want. IMTU, they tend to stick to low-velocity/low-penetration weapons. Snub pistols and shotguns are great for repelling boarders, especially when all you have to do is puncture a spacesuit. What they certainly don't want is some crewman with a F**k-em up 15 fusion gun blowing out a viewport or frying some vital piece of equipment. Likewise, naval troops doing customs inspections and the like will go for 'softer' weapons so as not to cause undue damage.
Army and marines of course tend to be past the point of courtesies like that so for them I tend to arm them with the versatile ACR. Gauss weapons are also good for the standup fights. Lasers will most likely be issued to specialists.
Scouts will want to go with things that are simple and/or multifunctional. A laser might be a bit high tech for most situations, but a shotgun can't provide emergency power to your vacc suit if the energy cells suddenly fail
Still, lasers aren't that great in exotic atmospheres, which scouts tend to find themselves in, so a good stout slug thrower will be the weapon of choice, with perhaps something more exotic as backup.
For example, it's been noted that merchants use pretty much whatever they want. IMTU, they tend to stick to low-velocity/low-penetration weapons. Snub pistols and shotguns are great for repelling boarders, especially when all you have to do is puncture a spacesuit. What they certainly don't want is some crewman with a F**k-em up 15 fusion gun blowing out a viewport or frying some vital piece of equipment. Likewise, naval troops doing customs inspections and the like will go for 'softer' weapons so as not to cause undue damage.
Army and marines of course tend to be past the point of courtesies like that so for them I tend to arm them with the versatile ACR. Gauss weapons are also good for the standup fights. Lasers will most likely be issued to specialists.
Scouts will want to go with things that are simple and/or multifunctional. A laser might be a bit high tech for most situations, but a shotgun can't provide emergency power to your vacc suit if the energy cells suddenly fail
Still, lasers aren't that great in exotic atmospheres, which scouts tend to find themselves in, so a good stout slug thrower will be the weapon of choice, with perhaps something more exotic as backup.Paraphrasing Jeff Cooper, 'A pistol is a marginal weapon which is used in an emergency until you can fight you way to a rifle.'
'"When a man with a .45 meets a man with a rifle ... the man with the pistol will be a dead man." Fist full of dollars
"Pistols are not very good at doing even what they have been designed to do. They do not have the stopping power to halt someone quickly. A pistol is really something to use for fighting your way to a rifle." US border patrol web page.
Well, I hope my opponents are into 'cool' and all carry pistols. I'm going to pick them off at 500 meters.
