Should all starships have prefixes like ISS?

[Maladominus]

Just a quick question to pick on your collective brains,

Does it make sense to formally name EVERY starship with the prefix like ISS or CSS or ISCV?

In our campaign, the original adventure ship the players had was the ISS Norwegian Blue. Back then, the ISS prefix made sense, since it was a ship owned by the Imperial Scout Service (piloted by retired scouts). Hence the formal servicename Imperial Scout Ship Norwegian Blue made sense.

Now, the characters have migrated to a new group ship... and this ship is a civilian design, altho built by Solomani shipyards. This ship is an armed courier, but not directly in service to any navy or government. What would its prefix be? Something like CCV? (Confederation Civilian Vessel). Or should it even have a prefix?

Maybe it should have no prefix, and simply go by its registry name and number, the Rotten Luck, shipyard registry number PR-019.

What is the Traveller naval tradition on this? The reason I ask is because I have also seen the PUBLISHED non-military ships (Approved for Use With Traveller) go with the prefixes like ISCV Leander, and the ZISMV Vlezhdatl, and the ISPMV Fenris.... all thanks to FASA, yeah FASA had given me the impression that all traveller starships (even civilian/private ones) should have prefixes.

 

[parmasson]

Hmmmm I got tired of the letters and just used:

HMS (His Majesty’s Ship) for Imperial vessels
S.S. (Star Ship) for privately owned ships
Never really thought about the higher nobility.

 

[jfetters]

Well, good question here.

Arrival: Vengeance references the "ISS Arrival Vengeance" - presumably Imperial Star Ship.

I want to say I have seen INS and INV in other publications, too, but I can't find any references...

 

[Liam Devlin]

There is also no prefix for known Pirate vessels usually, nor usually such a designator from a known system that might not want the IN looking for them at their world giving comfort to a raider.

I generally use SS for non-military vessels in a pinch. IISS for scout vessels, ISS IN vessels, IMV Imperial Mercenary vessel (non-jump), INV-Imperial Navy Vessel (non-jump battlerider, etc), unless owned by a corporation.

Solomani IMTU use CNS-Confederacy Naval Ship or CNV, CN vessel (as above); Sol-merchies, use CSS.

Of course this gets confusing with Consulate Navy Starship & Vessel of the Zhodani...

 

[kafka47]

For the Imperial Navy, I have always stuck to the convention of IN as a way differentiating from a System or Planetary Navy. I think these call signs are simply a matter of politeness and protocal. As the Mainworld's satellite tracks the transponder, it would also track voice signals from within the ship. One way that the Imperium discourages hijacking would be have a voiceprint stored in the transponder, which should match the intital hail to a Starport.

Also, politeness is also akin to deference, IMTU, in which a lowly Free Trader must give way to a Megacorp liner, who must give way to the Navy Frigate. As communication between two vessels is much quicker potentially than with Traffic Control, these are established customs. Again, it serves the Navy to alert them of suspicious behavoir.

 

[Spinward Scout]

Civilian ships would probably use S.S. if anything. Commercial ships or cargo vessels would probably use something their corporation mandates, tho Japanese ships use the suffix Maru. Here's a shipping accident list that just shows names. I think just the military vessels use the prefix nowadays.

Shipping Accidents

(This could also be used for TNS News Flashes, too)

Dameon

 

[Whipsnade]

Dameon,

Nifty list, thanks!

Very intriguing too... looking over the entries and this caught my eyes: 22 January 1965 in the Bering Sea four Soviet fishing trawlers lost.

Height of the Cold War too...

There's an adventure seed in there...


Have fun,
Bill

 

[kafka47]

Bill,

View it not so much, as the height of the Cold War, but also the last ditch effort for peace. By 1964, Khrushchev was willing to go for massive arms reductions in exchange for cash. East European governments were willing to try something different between capitalism and state socialism. This triggers the coup in 1964, what if someone on those fishing trawlers had something to say...about say, the Core expeditions...to take it into Traveller language.

 

[Liam Devlin]

I note as well at the bottom Bill, the Klyutschevsky (Soviet trawler) 1962, lost, losses unknown as well..

and in 1943, three Japanese submarines in same area..same fate, losses unknown..

More than one seed, it appears there might be a hole lot seeds/ ships have swallowed up into.

I run/duck/hide after lobbing said pun into the mix

 

[Whipsnade]

Gents,

Forgot the topic! D'oh!

IMTU there are many prefixes as there are vessels and worlds in the Imperium. However, a ship's 'real' prefix always appears in any legal documents referring or pertaining to her. So, while many prefixes are used everyday by many different people in many different situations, there are only a certain number of 'legal' or 'real' prefixes.

IMTU these legal prefixes are:

- INS: Imperial navy warships use this for Imperial Naval Ship. All ships in the Imperial navy regardless of jump rating, mission, or type use INS. Even vessels the Imperial navy refers to as 'boats', vessels that cannot jump regardless of size, use INS. This can be confusing to some observers who believe that a dreadnaught, ammunition hauler, monitor, SDB tender, and hospital ship all shouldn't use the same prefix. The fact that some observers become confused by this doesn't discomfort the Imperial Navy one whit.

(The prefix HIMS, for His/Her Imperial Majesty's Ship, had been used up until the mid-600s. However, too many opportunistic supporters of too many Barracks Emperors and too many wannabe Barracks Emperors clapped that prefix on whatever ships they had and then flew off to 'requisition supplies' (i.e. extort support) from too many people who didn't want to be bothered. After Arbellatra became Regent, the reformed Imperial Navy began using INS instead of HIMS at her order in order to distance itself from the 'personal' navies of the Barracks Emperors.)

- INAS: Imperial naval auxiliaries, sector naval reserve forces like MANS, and those planetary forces currently 'imperialized' use this for Imperial naval auxiliary vessel. As with INS, this prefix covers all vessels regardless of mission, type, or jump rating. Again, this can be confusing to some observers especially when the 'auxiliary' vessel they're stalking turns out to be a heavily armed CA on loan from some planetary navy and, again, the Imperial Navy couldn't care less.

- ISV: The IISS uses this for Imperial scout vessel. All vessels, jump capable or not, owned by the Scouts use this prefix whether they be an X-boat, shuttle, long range surveyor, recon pinnace, heavy transport, or lowly scout/courier. Even those vessels on detached duty carry the ISV prefix.

- IMV: Every jump capable civilian vessel registered in the Imperium uses this for Imperial merchant vessel. The ship in question could be a courier, a lab ship, a low berth liner, yacht, or some other that never carried a gram of cargo. It doesn't matter. On legal documentation, they are all 'merchant' craft. Corporations, foundations, NGOs, noble houses, and others can use prefix after prefix to highlight the special nature of their vessel. On Imperial legal documents, they're still all 'merchants'.

- IMS: A catch-all that covers all vessels owned by the various Imperial ministries and agencies uses this for Imperial ministries ships. This includes the many vessels used by the Imperium's Unified Army. (Yes, the Army has a navy.) The IMS registry is also where quite a number of 'odd' vessels and 'odder' missions find themselves. Or at least it seems like that to certain observers.

- SS: Used for Space ship. One group of vessels generally left out of all this are non-Imperial owned, non-jump capable vessels which are not subject to 'imperialization'(1). Planetary governments are free to use whatever prefixes they choose, but these vessels are referred to in Imperial legal documents by SS.

Hope all this nonsense helps.


Have fun,
Bill

1 - IMTU all purely planetary naval forces ranging from monitors to SDBs are theorectically available for 'imperialization'. The treaty provisions that allow them to exist also allow them to be drawn into service by the Imperium.

 

[Whipsnade]

Kafka & Liam,

Interesting thoughts! It seems our minds work somewhat alike and I do mean that as a compliment.

Nasty patch of sea up there, both the Gulf and the Straits. The North Atlantic gets most of the press, rightfully so, but that area can get pretty ⌧ing nasty awfully ⌧ing quick.

We operated up there a lot stooging around Petropovlosk with our ELINT suite. One three day storm did over 1 million USD damage topside, even tore the ship's bell loose, and that was on a 598-footer. We 'broke' our sonar dome during one trip. One day it's so rough they can't cook (coffee and toast for BL&D) and I'm having troubles with pump suction, the next day the sea is a mill pond. On July 4th I had a 34 degF seawater inlet temp too...

Whatever happened to the poor SOBs, it wasn't anything I'd wish on anyone.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[Liam Devlin]

TY Bill!

To say nothing of all the missing aircraft up thataways as well (before WW2 and after).
Sorry for the brief hijack, we return you now to this thread!

 

[kafka47]

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:

Whatever happened to the poor SOBs, it wasn't anything I'd wish on anyone.

And there you have it, there is your gimmick. An Imperial Navy frigate is tasked to explore the remanants of what seemed to be a Zhodani Merchant in the Abyss Region (District 268 gets too much press). Parts of the ship were found however careful reconstruction of the ships log indicated a lifeboat was launched. The ISS survey satelite picked up no transponders near the crash site. The logs reveal that the Merchant Ship was indeed carrying a high ranking Zhodani noble...

 

[Maladominus]

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:

- IMV: Every jump capable civilian vessel registered in the Imperium uses this for Imperial merchant vessel. The ship in question could be a courier, a lab ship, a low berth liner, yacht, or some other that never carried a gram of cargo. It doesn't matter. On legal documentation, they are all 'merchant' craft. Corporations, foundations, NGOs, noble houses, and others can use prefix after prefix to highlight the special nature of their vessel. On Imperial legal documents, they're still all 'merchants'.

OK, I like this!

And since my campaign is more SolomaniRim-themed, I am inclined to take this Imperial example and use the CMV designation for non-military ships, Confederation Merchant Vessel.

The Solo Confederation is, after all, simply a seccessionist state that splintered off the Imperium back in 871. Hence, the Confederation would still retain many of the old naval traditions of the Third Imperium.


The only caveat I would add is: in the Solomani Confederation, a starship that is legally registered under a Solomani member-state (e.g. a starship flying the colors of the Estados Unidos Grande de Quesada, the Spanish-speaking pocket empire inside the Confederation, mentioned in Solomani&Aslan), would be allowed to use the individual member-state's prefix designations. Other than that, the rest of the Solomani worlds that are marked generically as 'Solomani Confederation member world', the ships registered with those planets will be "Confederalized" in terms of starship prefixes.

So possible prefixes might be CMV, CNV, and maybe CSV (Confederation Security Vessel, SolSec operated police ships!).

SPV may be a special designation for Solomani Party Vessels.

Thanks all for the feedback.

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by Maladominus:
OK, I like this!

Maladominus,

Thanks! Please use as much or as little as you want. Change whatever you want too. Nothing - I repeat nothing - I post ever has any kind of 'copyright' on it.

I came up with these prefixes years ago because I wanted the information they contained to be vague. I didn't want the players saying Oh, the prefix is ICSVWABFMGFT(1)? We'll give that one a pass.

You'll notice all my prefixes cover a wide range of ships. INS? Is it a 400KdTons dreadnought or a 400dTon patrol cruiser? INAS? That doesn't always mean tanker, does it? ISV? Could be a Donosev, could be on of those AHLs. IMV? Is it a free trader or a megacorp, megaton container hauler? IMS? Does that ministry even have ships?

Nice and vague all the way around.

The only caveat I would add is: in the Solomani Confederation, a starship that is legally registered under a Solomani member-state (e.g. a starship flying the colors of the Estados Unidos Grande de Quesada, the Spanish-speaking pocket empire inside the Confederation, mentioned in Solomani&Aslan), would be allowed to use their own designations.

Nice! That's something that a player would know depending on his prior service, right? Adam the ex-merchie would know it but Bob the ex-army guy wouldn't. Let's your players inhabit the part a little better.

Thanks all for the feedback.

No problem. Glad my nonsense was of some use.


Have fun,
Bill

1 - ICSVWABFMGFT for "Imperial civilian science vessel with a big ⌧ing meson gun for terraforming"

 

[kafka47]

You'll notice all my prefixes cover a wide range of ships. INS? Is it a 400KdTons dreadnought or a 400dTon patrol cruiser? INAS? That doesn't always mean tanker, does it? ISV? Could be a Donosev, could be on of those AHLs. IMV? Is it a free trader or a megacorp, megaton container hauler? IMS? Does that ministry even have ships?

Again, this is where protocol comes in. If they are looking for another ship to stand down, it could said that the proper call sign would "INS Cruiser Relentless" or a survey ship being "ISS Survey Ship Columbus" responding to a distress call.

The Megacorps and the nobility are somewhat the exception to this. Megacorps insert their name directly into the hail to traffic control, eg. Naasirka Swanways, requesting permission to approach berth 312 would have priority over FT Scrum (the player's ship). Nobles have the benefit of not needing any call sign, therefore, "This is the Flying Empress, requesting berthing coordinates."

A ship not responding to a hail would be in breech of the Commercial Code of the Imperium if communication gear is in working order and everything is alright with the crew.

This makes the job difficult for pirates, privateers, and smugglers, so it is important that they have some sort of base that is outside the law. Such as approaching the mainworld from the Darkside (when it is on the other side of the sun and using stellar objects to mask their prescence and prey upon those who venture too far from the Starlanes...those who buy lesser quality or rigged flight plans...)

 

[aramis]

I use prefixes IMTU.

HIMS: His Imperial Majesty's Ship. Used for ships of the Imperial House, both military (Huscarles) and Civil.
H_GS: His _____ian Grace's Ship: Household vessels of Dukes and Archdukes.
H_IGS: His ______ian Imperial Grace's ship. Archducal household vessels.

INS: Imperial Naval Ship
INV: Imperial Naval Vessel (Non-starships and named larger small craft)

IPS: Imperial Prison Ship.

__NS, __NV: Sector (2 letter) or subsector (3 letter) abbreviation on paper, name of region said.

ISS: Imperial Scout Ship.
ISV: Imperial Scout Vessel

IRS: Imperial Research Ship

IS/IV: Imperial Ship/Imperial Vessel. Used for all other official craft.

CCS: Civilian Combat Starship.
CCV: Civilian Combat Vessel.
MV: Merchant Vessel
MS: Merchant Ship. May be registered under SS instead.

RS: Research Ship

SS: Starship. Generic.

No prefix: non imperial.

 

[Hemdian]

IMTU prefix codes or words are used by convention in the Imperium to indicate something about ownership:

INS - Imperial Navy Ship

ISS - Imperial Scout Ship

SS - Starship (civilian, jump capable)

Planetary navies typically specify the navy (eg. "Efatian Navy warship Komar")

etc.

Meanwhile the Zhodani use a suffix (eg. "This is the Stedlasav of the Zhodani Consulate") for all official vessels (naval and otherwise).

Regards PLST

 

[Spinward Scout]

Nobles have the benefit of not needing any call sign

Hmmm, that would seem to be a little confusing, maybe. How about something like "Starport Control, this Sir Dameon Toth's yacht, the So-And-So..." I would think that unless it's a high ranking Noble, Starport Control would still require them to have some kind of identifying code.

P.S. Sorry about derailing the thread for a bit, but glad you liked the list. I had to reread the thing to realize just how useful it could be.