Simple Task System

[Pickles]

I'm not sold on the benefit of the degrees of success/failure idea yet. I can see the application in combat, like the D20 and Runequest critical hits. Would the outcome of skill use be that variable in a DC system? The task would be graded according to difficulty, so if you succeed at a more difficult task you've already achieved a 'better-than-average' result.

There would have to be a clear benefit to a 'crit' skill roll, or the loss in playing time would be unjustifiable in my life.

 

[Pickles]

I'm not sold on the benefit of the degrees of success/failure idea yet. I can see the application in combat, like the D20 and Runequest critical hits. Would the outcome of skill use be that variable in a DC system? The task would be graded according to difficulty, so if you succeed at a more difficult task you've already achieved a 'better-than-average' result.

There would have to be a clear benefit to a 'crit' skill roll, or the loss in playing time would be unjustifiable in my life.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Well, some tasks are harder than others to get right. It doesn't mean you've done a better job when you succeed. Writing a program is harder than writing a web page in html. Writing the program isn't an above-average success compared to the web page. A high level of success in the program would entail elegant, compact, clean code with an elegant interface, rather than command line inputs and a lot of kludging.

I was unable to find the table in SpaceMaster, and my RoleMaster is unavailable for now. But, that conversion chart had a nice flow to it.

As I was thinking this morning, though.... I think I prefer the CT method of stat modifiers for weapons to a strict "a 10 gives you +2". This is where you get a bonus DM for a rifle at 9, but no bonus until 11 for a body pistol. The reason is that, say your Dexterity, isn't always that important. Driving your grav speeder, Dexterity will often give you advantages. But, maybe you have a task where Dexterity isn't nearly as important as darting through Startown traffic at a high speed (where I think a low Intel would give you a bonus, as well

) - so a 12 would give you +1, but a 10 would give you nothing. And, of course, driving a Grav Tank (just too much mass to turn on a dime) should not get nearly as much of a bonus from Dext as driving that speeder. YMMV.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Well, some tasks are harder than others to get right. It doesn't mean you've done a better job when you succeed. Writing a program is harder than writing a web page in html. Writing the program isn't an above-average success compared to the web page. A high level of success in the program would entail elegant, compact, clean code with an elegant interface, rather than command line inputs and a lot of kludging.

I was unable to find the table in SpaceMaster, and my RoleMaster is unavailable for now. But, that conversion chart had a nice flow to it.

As I was thinking this morning, though.... I think I prefer the CT method of stat modifiers for weapons to a strict "a 10 gives you +2". This is where you get a bonus DM for a rifle at 9, but no bonus until 11 for a body pistol. The reason is that, say your Dexterity, isn't always that important. Driving your grav speeder, Dexterity will often give you advantages. But, maybe you have a task where Dexterity isn't nearly as important as darting through Startown traffic at a high speed (where I think a low Intel would give you a bonus, as well

) - so a 12 would give you +1, but a 10 would give you nothing. And, of course, driving a Grav Tank (just too much mass to turn on a dime) should not get nearly as much of a bonus from Dext as driving that speeder. YMMV.

 

[kaladorn]

Hey, command line can be elegant!

As to Fritz Point:

You are thinking about it the wrong way (IMO). I always hated in CT that I could get no benfit up until a fixed breakpoint, then get benefits as high as +4 in some odd cases immediately. That's crack-pipe logic to my mind.

For your example cases, you have several choices:
1. If an asset isn't important, don't add it.
2. Nothing precludes the asset for the skill being defined as (attribute/2) for instance. (Half as effective)
3. Nothing precludes you making the task higher difficulty.
4. You are arguing about high and low manouverability vehicles as if they have the same task difficulties. This should be more a function of vehicle design IMO.

As to exceptional successes:
You can ignore them where they don't matter. Let us say I am sculpting. How successful I am matters. Let us say I am racing to beat the clock on something. Maybe if I make an exceptional success, for each level, I can subtract 10% from the time the task would normally take. In short, you pay attention to exc success where it matters (combat, crafting, timed things) and you ignore it where you don't think it will matter. It has a zero impact on game speed because where it is not required, you ignore it. Where it is required, you get the benefit from the *same roll* you made to resolve the skill.

 

[kaladorn]

Hey, command line can be elegant!

As to Fritz Point:

You are thinking about it the wrong way (IMO). I always hated in CT that I could get no benfit up until a fixed breakpoint, then get benefits as high as +4 in some odd cases immediately. That's crack-pipe logic to my mind.

For your example cases, you have several choices:
1. If an asset isn't important, don't add it.
2. Nothing precludes the asset for the skill being defined as (attribute/2) for instance. (Half as effective)
3. Nothing precludes you making the task higher difficulty.
4. You are arguing about high and low manouverability vehicles as if they have the same task difficulties. This should be more a function of vehicle design IMO.

As to exceptional successes:
You can ignore them where they don't matter. Let us say I am sculpting. How successful I am matters. Let us say I am racing to beat the clock on something. Maybe if I make an exceptional success, for each level, I can subtract 10% from the time the task would normally take. In short, you pay attention to exc success where it matters (combat, crafting, timed things) and you ignore it where you don't think it will matter. It has a zero impact on game speed because where it is not required, you ignore it. Where it is required, you get the benefit from the *same roll* you made to resolve the skill.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Actually, kaladorn, I think we are saying almost the same thing. I am saying that simply assigning a +2 to a 10 stat doesn't do justice to the resolution of tasks. Some tasks your stat will matter more than others. So, a Dext of 10 might reasonably affect driving that speeder. A dex of 10 just isn't going to help that much driving a G-carrier - it's a pig. So, tasks with the speeder would get bonuses from Dex, while driving the G-carrier wouldn't (of course, you might get a bonus from Endurance...).

I think you are saying that to reflect that, you would change the task difficulty. IMO, they are both hard, but they take different advantages for success. Most people with a rudimentary Grav Vehicle skill and a really high Dex could zing through traffic in a speeder - look at the morons on the road around you every day. But, only skill can make a difference with the G-carrier (I am assuming it handles less nimbly due to mass/inertia). (Yeah, your #1 & 2 almost says the above - I am just not sure about making the bonus fixed, then modifying it, rather than giving a unique bonus for each thing.)

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Actually, kaladorn, I think we are saying almost the same thing. I am saying that simply assigning a +2 to a 10 stat doesn't do justice to the resolution of tasks. Some tasks your stat will matter more than others. So, a Dext of 10 might reasonably affect driving that speeder. A dex of 10 just isn't going to help that much driving a G-carrier - it's a pig. So, tasks with the speeder would get bonuses from Dex, while driving the G-carrier wouldn't (of course, you might get a bonus from Endurance...).

I think you are saying that to reflect that, you would change the task difficulty. IMO, they are both hard, but they take different advantages for success. Most people with a rudimentary Grav Vehicle skill and a really high Dex could zing through traffic in a speeder - look at the morons on the road around you every day. But, only skill can make a difference with the G-carrier (I am assuming it handles less nimbly due to mass/inertia). (Yeah, your #1 & 2 almost says the above - I am just not sure about making the bonus fixed, then modifying it, rather than giving a unique bonus for each thing.)

 

[flykiller]

...giving a unique bonus for each thing.

'dbe a lot of unique bonuses.

 

[flykiller]

...giving a unique bonus for each thing.

'dbe a lot of unique bonuses.

 

[Takei]

The reason I like the blanket stat bonus is that it keeps things simple. Otherwise, as Flykiller said, you end up with a lot of unique applications of the same skill.

 

[Takei]

The reason I like the blanket stat bonus is that it keeps things simple. Otherwise, as Flykiller said, you end up with a lot of unique applications of the same skill.