No, my contention is that a Traveller writer got the idea of low berths from E.C. Tubb's Dumarest of Terra books.
Hans
Starship Accommodations
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Hans
I would interject here that the ship's life support is set to acclimatize the passengers and crew to the planet's conditions that they are going to. The low berth folks do not get the benefit of this week's worth of adjustment and on some worlds they go to sleep in Death valley -150 ft below sea level, and wake up in alpine conditions with the chance of fatal altitude sickness.
Kind of depends on the starport. A halfway decent starport will have controlled environments for short-term visitors and immigration procedures that address acclimatization needs for immigrants. If you're taking a trip to a world with a poor starport - well, that's yet another way to improve the gene pool.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Acclimatization may be in a very limited section, since the ship may just dock at Up starport, and the crew wouldn't be that keen of having to adjust to a different atmosphere fortnightly, which they may not be exposed to.
One of the easiest ways to "have your cake and eat it to" is to simply factor in TL. In the Dumarest saga for instance Low Berths were originally designed for the transportation of livestock, and this is implied to be at least a portion of the reason that the mortality rate is so high (just re-read Winds of Gath this past weekend).
Even if we don't posit that this was the case in the OTU (or semi-OTU) we can certainly take the MT/DGP version of reality where as TL increases the technology changes (and improves) and with that the mortality rate decreases. Plus, say in MgT we can also posit all of the modifiers to rolls that come from careful and slow task resolution rather than standard or speedy resolution.
If there is only one thing that I like about T5 (and I'll admit that there is more than one) it is that there is finally some actual guideline for how things function across tech levels (from prototypes at -3 TL to their ultimate developments at TL +4).
D.
Even if we don't posit that this was the case in the OTU (or semi-OTU) we can certainly take the MT/DGP version of reality where as TL increases the technology changes (and improves) and with that the mortality rate decreases. Plus, say in MgT we can also posit all of the modifiers to rolls that come from careful and slow task resolution rather than standard or speedy resolution.
If there is only one thing that I like about T5 (and I'll admit that there is more than one) it is that there is finally some actual guideline for how things function across tech levels (from prototypes at -3 TL to their ultimate developments at TL +4).
D.
I keep hearing that Dumarest bit about low berths and livestock transport, and I will confess that I haven't had an opportunity to read Dumarest, having leaned more toward Asimov and Clark as a youth. Anyway, it got me wondering: is the problem that humans aren't well suited for that form of travel, or is it that low berths are risky regardless of species?
Low berths run an unpleasant 8+% mortaility rate under the classic rules. Cattle traders haven't seen that level of mortality since before the mid 19th century, and there wasn't much shipment of livestock before then - aside from having it walk from A to B - for precisely that reason. It doesn't seem like trader's be eager to entertain that level of loss, even allowing that the thing at least arrives edible even if dead; having it dead before it hits the killing floor adds complications and costs, including the possibility that local law may not permit an already dead animal to be sold for human consumption.
The same Book-2 rules have meat running at 1500 Cr per dTon, with a range of 40-300% of that value depending on the shipping and receiving worlds: typical rates are purchase prices of around 1200 and sale prices of around 1800. That's volume, but classic treats volume and mass identically and then calls the remainder packing peanuts, or some such thing. Not a whole lotta profit margin there - well, not any for living stock, when you think about it; the stock likely to get shipped by low berth is the stock whose value is sufficient that the trader would not be eager to entertain high mortality rates.
I ramble. Anyway, the point is, I'm wondering what the actual mortality rate was for the Dumarest berths, whether it was anything close to the 8+% of the Traveller world or was closer to the 2-3% of the late 19th century cattle drive era.
I've always assumed that low berths designed for cattle worked just fine -- for cattle.
Hans
Exactly, and that the high mortality rate was because it was being essentially jury-rigged for use with humans. That is certainly the implication in the Dumarest novels - hardscrabble Free Traders looking for another income stream from equally hardscrabble travellers...
It is clear in the Dumarest novels that travelling low is for the crazy and the desperate - though in those novels it is also more "travelling cool" rather "travelling frozen". Part of the reason why it is so dangerous is because the traveller's metabolism only slows down "so much" and they wake up emaciated and weak (that's actually a bit of a plot-point in the first novel).
It might also be safer for cattle that have been "fattened up" - or this may also just be part of the "designed for the wrong metabolism". I seem to recall that later plot points in the series imply a safer form of suspended animation for humans (it's just not low berths on a starship).
D.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
The other side of the coin is Aliens, and I guess Avatar. In Aliens it seems automated and mostly risk free (unless you happen to have unsolicited guests onboard), and in Avatar you seem to have medics, and it appears routine.
Vladika
SOC-14 1K
It sure it does! Otherwise, why would an owner ship a cargo valuable enough to send through space and then accept a significant mortality rate? Better to ship processed hamburger if it didn't work.
I'm with you. It has to make sense.
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Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
I can see a market for steak, extra rare.
BlackBat242
SOC-14 1K
Neither point (all human-capable low berths being jury-rigged, nor "wake up emaciated and weak") is part of Traveller "low berths" - unless I missed something somewhere.
Since "low berth" tech has been around for centuries (or even millennia), they would have been refined and modified some to work with humanati (and aslan, droyne, etc), wouldn't they have been - and thus not be so deadly? Or is the technology itself inherently dangerous in total?
Making some progress toward low berths.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/h...state-of-suspended-animation-for-surgery.html
So far, it only buys you an hour or so, but that's still quite remarkable.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/h...state-of-suspended-animation-for-surgery.html
So far, it only buys you an hour or so, but that's still quite remarkable.
Nope, as far as I know you didn't.
Personally I would have tended to make the argument that as Tech improved safety improved, certainly for the OTO. At the moment, as I create a newer Proto-T, IMTU setting, I kind of tempted to just leave it that deadly and run with it using the "inherently dangerous" argument (but I'll admit that I probably won't).
D.
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in the last century rich people had their own private rail cars. they would hook up with any train going in their direction and travel the country in their own mini-home, for business or pleasure.
like tenders and battle riders, no reason you couldn't have such cargo "trains" which could also hook up the ultra-rich with their j0/m6 yachts.
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
I would think some sort of non-jump ship that fits in many cargo ship's holds would be a better way to go with that. You just pay for cargo space and away you go in private luxury. No need to interact with the other passengers or the merchant's crew.
Let's say I have a 40 ton "yacht" that is maneuver 1 (I'm not in an particular rush to get anywhere) that is very posh in terms of living aboard. Let's assume it takes 50 tons of cargo space accounting for its shape, etc. That's, at the standard cargo rate, 50,000 cr for a jump. That's the same as 5 high passages!
Very reasonable if I'm a well off traveler...
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
You could clamp it on a car ferry variant.
So no cargo or hangar space required.
So no cargo or hangar space required.
