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Starship Accommodations

Neither point (all human-capable low berths being jury-rigged, nor "wake up emaciated and weak") is part of Traveller "low berths" - unless I missed something somewhere.

Since "low berth" tech has been around for centuries (or even millennia), they would have been refined and modified some to work with humanati (and aslan, droyne, etc), wouldn't they have been - and thus not be so deadly? Or is the technology itself inherently dangerous in total?

Since basically you are slowing down a being's metabolism to a significant degree, it may be a case like anesthesia today, with different people having different responses. Some people's bodies might simply not be able to handle the slowing down, and therefore die.
 
Since basically you are slowing down a being's metabolism to a significant degree, it may be a case like anesthesia today, with different people having different responses. Some people's bodies might simply not be able to handle the slowing down, and therefore die.

I have failures do damage rather then kill, and so the elderly and the very young are highly vulnerable to 'freezer burn'.

An issue of course with the fatally injured thrown into an emergency unit- the skill of the person doing the low berth procedure counts. Of course one would expect the thawing out would occur at a major facility or hospital ship, but still things may break badly.
 
in the last century rich people had their own private rail cars. they would hook up with any train going in their direction and travel the country in their own mini-home, for business or pleasure.

like tenders and battle riders, no reason you couldn't have such cargo "trains" which could also hook up the ultra-rich with their j0/m6 yachts.

This is very niche, I think. People with private cars used those not so much because they couldn't afford an engine, but by the fact that they had no real access to the railways in general. In contrast, we have private boats, private planes, etc. Fully capable vessels, rather than a carried vessel.

Not a lot of built out cargo containers.

Rather, I see a combination of high end suites on standard ships, along with privately owned jump capable ships. Any kind of "luxury-rider" would have to be on a purpose built hauler, as you don't want to just toss a yacht in to the hold. The people will want to leave their accommodations and linger and preen with the other well to do, rather than remain isolated for the journey.
 
This is very niche, I think. People with private cars used those not so much because they couldn't afford an engine, but by the fact that they had no real access to the railways in general. In contrast, we have private boats, private planes, etc. Fully capable vessels, rather than a carried vessel.

Hmm, can't speak to European practice, but in the US the economics and motivation were a bit different.

First, they were high tech comfort wagons, often having amenities years if not decades before general travel did, and often brought along their own servants and chefs.

Secondly, it allowed them to maintain distance from the hoi polloi in coach and Pullman class service.

Third, they had much more generous individual space and comfort for their bedrooms, drawing rooms, etc. that commercial cars would not have.

Fourth, it was a status symbol that was much more practical then a yacht as to speed and possible destinations. The ultra rich often had both.

But fifth, and perhaps most important yet likely surprising, they were common among the rail set because they rode free.

Most private car travel was by rail moguls who got courtesy hauling of his railroad's business car by a fellow rail baron's road, and the favor was returned. Or just as likely, the car was owned by an important customer/potential customer and so got a courtesy trip as a sales tool.

The end of private railcars occurred when the same sort of railing against privilege such as the three martini lunch, made a rule that all private cars being hauled had to buy 18 Pullman tickets to pay for their trip, no gratis.

The cars were laid up and largely gone in a generation, decades before Amtrak.
 
Depends on the transport technology, access and infrastructure.

So if you can afford it, and it's permitted, wouldn't you take a helicopter from your estate commuting directly to your place of work?

In Traveller, interstellar travelling times are a hard week for each jump, not a half day hop over the Pacific.
 
Depends on the transport technology, access and infrastructure.

So if you can afford it, and it's permitted, wouldn't you take a helicopter from your estate commuting directly to your place of work?

In Traveller, interstellar travelling times are a hard week for each jump, not a half day hop over the Pacific.

Hmm, that presents an interesting picture, one-half million helicopters converging on the Chicago Loop, or downtown San Francisco, or New York, or Washington, D.C., or London in the United Kingdom.
 
Hmm, that presents an interesting picture, one-half million helicopters converging on the Chicago Loop, or downtown San Francisco, or New York, or Washington, D.C., or London in the United Kingdom.

The air/raft transportation net literally presents such issues.

Do you have 3-D alt 'space streets' ala Fifth Element, Back to the Future II or Futurama? Some sort of super air traffic control? Everything remote controlled in heavy areas?

tumblr_lvyksiFol61r82noto1_500.jpg
 
A Little Bit of Threadmancy...

Regarding some of the things mentioned earlier in the thread with limiting passengers to a certain number per stateroom and how the Imperium might deal with this, I can only tell you that IMTU, it is a safety issue. Think about how the Cruise Ship Industry changed after the Titanic with lifeboats. So IMTU, you cannot have more passengers to a stateroom than you have Emergency Rescue Ball capacity.
 
Life support is the obvious chokepoint, but presumably that supports the two per storeroom model since there is no additional requirement attached to building a ship crewed to that capacity. One presumes the builder would also supply ERBs to fit that capacity, as it would be difficult to convince, say, a newlywed couple to sleep in separate rooms and equally awkward to explain why one of the two died because they had to dash for the neighboring room rather than have such a basic piece of safety equipment close at hand for both.

I suspect the one-per-room standard exists because passengers simply won't accept being roomed with a stranger after spending 8-10,000 credits for the room. That's why IMTU I allow for special fares for couples sharing a room and allow for haggling to fill empty suites with double-occupancy discount fares.
 
I suspect the one-per-room standard exists because passengers simply won't accept being roomed with a stranger after spending 8-10,000 credits for the room. That's why IMTU I allow for special fares for couples sharing a room and allow for haggling to fill empty suites with double-occupancy discount fares.

Careful that way leads to supersaver fares and only peanuts for MidPassage!
 
However, I do allow "economy passage" fares (5,000cr) for double occupancy of standard staterooms, and for smaller single-occupancy rooms specified for "EP" fares. Note that EP does not provide the services of a steward... the passengers are provided pre-packaged "heat&serve" meals, a warming oven, basic utensils, and cooled/heated water. The common room also has 2 cubic feet of cold food storage space per "econo" passenger.

The standard stateroom, as shown on standard deck plans takes up 3dt (6x1.5m squares) for the actual "4dt" stateroom - I have ships with purpose-built "3dt" staterooms which take up 2dt (4x1.5m squares) for the actual stateroom.

These small staterooms are what is commonly found on "combination" starships - those that are primarily cargo vessels, but which also have a small number of excess staterooms for carrying passengers. Aboard these ships, there are none of the amenities of dedicated passenger vessels - or even of ships like the Empress Merava class Far Traders.
 
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Per CT Book 2, "Each occupied stateroom on a starship involves an overhead cost of Cr2000 per trip (two weeks) made." You need a steward for every 8 high-passage passengers at a cost of roughly Cr1500/trip, but mid-passage passengers receive no steward's services. There'll be a medic at a cost of Cr1000/trip, but most ships only need one. This represents a base cost for getting a person from A to B without low-berthing them (not factoring in such things as the cost of the ship, etc.). Your profit should stay at least the same when double-occ'ing a passenger stateroom. So,

if a couple wants to share a stateroom, or a parent wants to bring a minor over a certain age, I'd charge Cr. 2500 for the privilege to cover added overhead and services.

If I haven't filled my rooms, or someone comes up wanting to haggle, I'd offer a double occ. mid-passage stateroom at Cr. 5000 per person. (I'll yield a bit for the medic to keep it a nice round number.)

Steward services are not included in the mid-passage package. This means no "first class accommodations and cuisine". In other words, no cooked meals unless they want to pay for it. The rooms have a microwave and a little hotel-room size refrigerator and are stocked with snack-level fare - because I offer that to high-passage passengers and it's not worth my trouble to empty the fridge for someone that's bringing me Cr 6000 in profit - and if they want to come out of their room and buy a meal, I charge Cr100 for lunch and dinner, and Cr50 for breakfast.

I leave some room for bargaining. I don't consider these fares to be Imperial Law, just the norms, and players struggling to keep up with payments might want to offer under-the-table inducements to fill a room. Doing it above-board could get tricky unless you're the only ship in port, because other captains don't like that sort of thing even if they do it under the table themselves, and - a bribe or two later - you're the subject of a rather intensive "routine" stem-to-stern inspection that turns up a rather surprising number of very minor infractions that nonetheless end up costing you a bit.

Careful that way leads to supersaver fares and only peanuts for MidPassage!

What a coincidence! That's one of the snack-level fare items I offer in the stateroom!
 
Don't forget the 'hidden' cost of baggage. Classically 1 ton for the mid passages and 1 ton per high passage. So really high passages are 9000 Cr- not so profitable compared to mid passage.
 
Hundred kilogrammes of what I assume is volume, not someone placing your luggage on the counter scale.

A first class passenger can probably take along a smallish beach buggy.
 
Don't forget the 'hidden' cost of baggage. Classically 1 ton for the mid passages and 1 ton per high passage. So really high passages are 9000 Cr- not so profitable compared to mid passage.

That's one ton mass, no? "There is a baggage allowance of up to 1,000
kilograms." I know CT early on tries to equate the dTon and the mass ton but most people put that aside, and later versions abandon it as well. So, the passenger's one ton mass of property might occupy maybe four to six kiloliters or so, assuming roughly the density of typical luggage. You could probably call it 2 passengers' luggage per dTon and be in the right ballpark. And, I'm guessing that's carved out of the stateroom allotment since it doesn't show up in cargo calculations, so it's not costing you any more cargo space than the stateroom allotment's already taken.

A tidbit from "Airplane Design, Part III":
https://books.google.com/books?id=_...EIODAD#v=onepage&q=density of luggage&f=false

Book 2 says 100 kg for mid passage luggage, which gives you an opportunity to make a bit of extra money by filling that extra space with a wee bit of cargo. Maybe buy 900 kg of Barry Manilow CDs 'cause your next stop has this odd Barry Manilow cult going.
 
Hmm, alright, reviewing LBB2 both versions and TTB, most references to baggage is 1000kg/100kg/10kg, but there ARE a few references to High Passage as 1 ton. I remember those. Some versions have only kg.

Small car 1000kg 1 ton, works.

On heavy commodities, that would be 1-3 cubic meters for 1000kg.

1000kg luggage is usually going to be less dense then commodities, so I could see a 6-7 cubic meter space.

But may still be obligated to have the space set aside, thus impacting available cargo sales.
 
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