T5 Worldbuild Take 1

[Lycanorukke]

Also how much heat does the world gain from tidal heating?

Depending on the distance it could be from hundered of degrees (Io), just enough for liquid water (Europa), to very little (Callisto).

With an atmosphere (dense in this case), the internal heat would be trapped and boost local temperatures.

 

[aramis]

Okay, Vangon would be in thermal equilibrium, at whatever the orbit temperature is. Orbit temp is based on albedo, and distance.

No, it might not be. Neither Jupiter nor Saturn have yet cooled to equilibrium.

 

[Drakon]

No, it might not be. Neither Jupiter nor Saturn have yet cooled to equilibrium.

Right, right. We have two sources here. The first is the heat from the planet itself. The second is the reflected heat from Vangon.

Assuming a Class II, and water vapor clouds, that is an albedo of .81, (compared to Jupiter's 0.343 and Saturn's 0.342). I need to think on this. If I had a means of modeling these heats relative to solar luminosity, I have the formulas to work this out.

 

[aramis]

Right, right. We have two sources here. The first is the heat from the planet itself. The second is the reflected heat from Vangon.

Assuming a Class II, and water vapor clouds, that is an albedo of .81, (compared to Jupiter's 0.343 and Saturn's 0.342). I need to think on this. If I had a means of modeling these heats relative to solar luminosity, I have the formulas to work this out.

For pedantic clarity: Not just reflected "heat" (IR) - reflected light- all absorbed wavelengths of light result in heat energy which then converts (eventually) to IR via blackbody radiation.

It's also worth noting that Earth isn't at energy equilibrium yet, either. (If it were, the core would be the same temperature as the mean surface temperature.) No world with radioactives will be until the radioactives have all decayed, but it may not be significant in many cases (Venus, Mercury).

 

[Drakon]

Hill Sphere, Roche limits

Something that occured to me was how stable the Vangon/Lemish orbits were. To compute that, one needs to compute the Hill Sphere, and the Roche Limits for the system.

The Hill Sphere is the gravitational boundary between Vangon and Ishan, the main star. A satellite too close to this Hill Sphere limit, would be pulled away. A planet within the Roche limit of Vangon would be ripped apart by tidal forces. There are two limits computed, one for a rigid body and one for a fluid object. Lemish more closely resembles a rigid object.

Since Vangon is a single jovian mass, I have been using the values for Jupiter for density. I came up with these values

Hill Sphere = 2,597,900 km.
Roche rigid =56,803.43 km
Roche fluid = 110,000 km

With Lemish at about 270,000 km from Vangon's center, Lemish is well within the boundary limits. Any sulphur rings might extend out to Lemish's orbit, but would be a navigation hazzard.

 

[Drakon]

1) I did not include the various equations I used earlier.

Hill Sphere radius =a(1-e)(m2/3*m1)^1/3
where a=semimajor axis
e= eccentricity of the orbit
m2= mass of secondary
m1= mass of primary

Roche Limit rigid
d=1.26 Rm1*(pm1/pm2)^1/3
where R=radius of mass 1
pm1 =density of primary
pm2 = density of secondary

Roche Limit Fluid
d=2.44 (pm1/pm2)^1/3

2) I computed the black body radiation from Vangon that Lemish receives:
Tplanet=Tsun(Rsun*(((1-albedo)/Emiss)^1/2)/2D)
Assuming Vangon is at thermic equlibrium (which we feel is inaccurate. Vangon may be warmer than equilibrium due to factors mentioned earlier) Lemish is 32.57035613 warmer than it would be otherwise.

Combined with the effective temperture computed earlier allowing for the 3.924987415 daily eclipse, give a final temperture of 271.2253646.
Earth normal temperture is 288 degrees, so this works out great!

 

[Drakon]

Government models

I have been wracking my brains trying to work out how you create a civil service bureacracy with unlimited invasion of privacy that does not quickly devolve into a miserable police state. Governments are really good at two things, killing people and writing checks. And it can only the second because it threatens the first. This is very attractive to more primal instincts that are common in all sophants who end up at the top of their habitat's food chains.

I believe I have found a model in the adminstration of Hong Kong under British rule. A lot of this idea is based on a few articles such as http://www.fee.org/the_freeman/detail/freedom-works-the-case-of-hong-kong/#ixzz2WRBnREdR

According to the article, while the administration did have socialized medicine, and corruption problems, economically the government left the people alone. I especially liked this line from the article.

(Milton) Friedman gave Cowperthwaite a great deal of the credit for Hong Kong’s success, citing approvingly Cowperthwaite’s refusal to collect most economic statistics on the grounds that “f I let them compute those statistics, they’ll want to use them for planning.”

The laissez-faire atttitude ran counter to the times, the policies of either Great Britain or America under the Johnson adminstration at the time,and was bred from what the british felt were hostility of the new immigrants to british rule. The british learned not to be too bossy or controlling and Hong Kong created a lot of very rich people.

I think it will work as a model for Lemish's government, but I need to do more research.

 

[rancke]

I have been wracking my brains trying to work out how you create a civil service bureacracy with unlimited invasion of privacy that does not quickly devolve into a miserable police state.

How about a transparent society with a mechanism for removing civil servants that are caught abusing their power?

EDIT: Note that the transparent society is just a theory. There's no evidence that it would work. But this is science fiction. Who's to say that it won't work?


Hans

 

[Drakon]

How about a transparent society with a mechanism for removing civil servants that are caught abusing their power?


Hans

Had not heard of this before, let me look. Thanks.

One way or the other there has to be a strong Inspector General or Internal Affairs bureau of some kind. Some means of watching the watchers.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Ah, the joys of the OPR.

Had not heard of this before, let me look. Thanks.

One way or the other there has to be a strong Inspector General or Internal Affairs bureau of some kind. Some means of watching the watchers.

I being the cheesy wanker I am would just straight up lift some variant of the Federal agencies' Office of Professional Responibility. Note that while this link is the USDoJ, other Federal agencies also have them.

 

[Drakon]

I being the cheesy wanker I am would just straight up lift some variant of the Federal agencies' Office of Professional Responibility. Note that while this link is the USDoJ, other Federal agencies also have them.

Thank you for this link, this is great. I am at present thinking of having a Ministry of Administrative Affairs house the Inspector General's Office, which could investigate any other ministries, and receive complaints and intel from anyone.

I am also thinking that the Ministry of Administrative Affairs would also be in charge of procurements for most of the other ministries, (with possible exception of Defense), and procurement is a big area for corruption. Having the IGs office in the same ministry may or may not work.

King Ralph is playing in the background, which seems quite appropriate to my position.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Sweet!

Thank you for this link, this is great. I am at present thinking of having a Ministry of Administrative Affairs house the Inspector General's Office, which could investigate any other ministries, and receive complaints and intel from anyone.

I am also thinking that the Ministry of Administrative Affairs would also be in charge of procurements for most of the other ministries, (with possible exception of Defense), and procurement is a big area for corruption. Having the IGs office in the same ministry may or may not work.

King Ralph is playing in the background, which seems quite appropriate to my position.

Very glad I could help. I like the MAA.

 

[rancke]

Had not heard of this before, let me look. Thanks.

One way or the other there has to be a strong Inspector General or Internal Affairs bureau of some kind. Some means of watching the watchers.

The point about a transparent society is that the transparency goes both ways so that the citizenry can see what the government gets up to. Check sousveillance for more ideas.


Hans

 

[Drakon]

The point about a transparent society is that the transparency goes both ways so that the citizenry can see what the government gets up to. Check sousveillance for more ideas.


Hans

My biggest worry is it is easy to see how the politicial class can manipulate the information flow to their advantage. There are outright lies, information that is simply false, and there is the information flood strategy available. Simply inform the public to such a level of detail that the voters simply cannot process it all, or get bored or are not able to pay attention.

Most folks want to live their lives and not have to worry about crime statistics, infrastructure growth requirements due to a growing population, or what to do in case of invasion. They want the government to take care of business and leave them alone.

But before I sound too negative, thank you for the articles. It is definite food for thought.

 

[aramis]

[m;]Let's leave the political dimension out of it. Drakon has bellied right up to, but not quite across, the line.[/m;]

 

[Drakon]

Protocol Question

On a completely different topic, what is the Imperial Protocol for enoblement? The Emperor issues a patent of nobility and the Imperial bureaucracy dispenses them, but how? What department or ministry handles that? I assume it is a bit more than an envelope in the mail. That it would be an agent of some kind, especially for the newly nobled.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Not an envelope, it is a package.

On a completely different topic, what is the Imperial Protocol for enoblement? The Emperor issues a patent of nobility and the Imperial bureaucracy dispenses them, but how? What department or ministry handles that? I assume it is a bit more than an envelope in the mail. That it would be an agent of some kind, especially for the newly nobled.

To His Lordship/[o]Her Ladyship[/o] Baron Lemish :

Please find enclosed "Your First Imperial Holding Starter Kit". This kit contains the following items/services necessary for the newly elevated Imperial noble to begin their tenure as His Imperial Majesty's Representative to the World of Lemish :

• 1 copy of the Imperial Standards, Volumes I-XI, Edition 11-001.
• 1 copy of the Imperial Code of High Laws, Volumes I-II, 11th Edition.
• 1 copy of the Imperial Manual of Arms, Volumes 1-3, 1105 Edition.
• 1 copy of the Imperial Starport Authority Handbook.
• 1 copy of the Treaty of Membership between the Government(s) of Lemish and the Third Imperium.
• 1 Letter of Patent/Imperial Identification Card for Baron Lemish .

It is His Majesty's wish that you Maintain, Defend, and Improve the Land Grant which He has graciously awarded you.

Ivor Shariinkaga,
Imperial Herald,
Office of Land Grants,
Imperial Moot.

 

[Drakon]

To His Lordship/[o]Her Ladyship[/o] Baron Lemish :

Please find enclosed "Your First Imperial Holding Starter Kit". This kit contains the following items/services necessary for the newly elevated Imperial noble to begin their tenure as His Imperial Majesty's Representative to the World of Lemish :

• 1 copy of the Imperial Standards, Volumes I-XI, Edition 11-001.
• 1 copy of the Imperial Code of High Laws, Volumes I-II, 11th Edition.
• 1 copy of the Imperial Manual of Arms, Volumes 1-3, 1105 Edition.
• 1 copy of the Imperial Starport Authority Handbook.
• 1 copy of the Treaty of Membership between the Government(s) of Lemish and the Third Imperium.
• 1 Letter of Patent/Imperial Identification Card for Baron Lemish .

It is His Majesty's wish that you Maintain, Defend, and Improve the Land Grant which He has graciously awarded you.

Ivor Shariinkaga,
Imperial Herald,
Office of Land Grants,
Imperial Moot.

Perfect!

I still think I am swinging by the bookstore to pick up "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Being a Noble"

 

[aramis]

Perfect!

I still think I am swinging by the bookstore to pick up "The Complete Idiot's Guide to being a Noble"

If your subsector duke doesn't provide you with one as a "congratulations and warnings" gift.

 

[Drakon]

If your subsector duke doesn't provide you with one as a "congratulations and warnings" gift.

As we're coming from Jewel, the subsector duke would know about me about 7 months before I arrive, and about 3 months before I learn my fate.

Looking over the list, The Imperial Standards is the code of conduct and protocols?

Does the Imperial Navy have the equivalent of the Bluejackets manual?

In addition to the treaty, I would need the code of Lemishian law, the colonial charter and foundational documents, any other treaties. Equivalent of the CIA factbook on Lemish (WIP). Recent news feeds, (well recent from 3 months ago by J6). The government's budget for the planet. Details and inventory of the fiefdom, and any facilities and real properties associated with it.

My first thought was all those little red boxes Sir Harry was sending home in "Yes Minister". Then realized, this is all data, and probably all of this is digital. An Imperial Ipad, as it were. Possibly more fancy, like what Tony Stark, or SHIELD plays with.