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Technology "Creep"

OTOH, with minimal tech savvy (via local scouts?), someone could suggest, "You know, rather than using your nice grain to make ethanol, why not collect methanol from that refuse over there, and eat the grain?" I recall that in WWII Germany (and controlled areas), civilian vehicles were often converted to use wood alcohol = methanol.

A lot of vehicles were converting to wood-burning using the producer gas generated by restricted burning of wood. The was a quite popular subject in this country a few years back when gas prices were getting close to $4 a gallon. It does work best with a pick-up truck and your own supply of wood. It does tend to use a lot of wood.

https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2010/01/wood-gas-cars.html

The problem is that you have to have an internal-combustion engine to do this. As for using charcoal instead of coke (made from coal) to produce steel, you are again talking a fair amount of charcoal.

As for the Middle Kingdom, it did have gunpowder before Europe did, as well as making cast iron far ahead of Europe. They also had paper much before Europe. The problem is that they did nothing with it. They did import Jesuit priests to teach them how to forge bronze cannon. That could be viewed as industrial espionage. The problem with the Middle Kingdom, and also Japan, is that the rulers did not wish to rock the boat, technology wise. Europe taught them the error of their thinking.
 
Killer apps.

Plate armour, cannons, bibles, pamphlets, automation.

The Chinese didn't require them, and the Tokugawas didn't want potential rivals to have them.
 
You missed out glass, a critical invention for learning about nature.
The Chinese invented porcelain and used it for many of the applications that Europeans would use glass for. The Chinese glass making industry remained primitive and didn't produce the clear crystal glass that is needed for optical instruments such as magnifying glasses, microscopes and telescopes.
 
Some historians suggest that Europe's many competing polities accelerated technological developments. Everybody is trying to get an edge on the competition. Contrast that with a centralized state that was focused on stability over innovation.
Yes, I'm generalizing.

Latin language and Roman letters were very helpful, as these created a universal means of transferring communication, one that proved quite adaptable in the recombination and creation of new words for new ideas.
I understand that literacy is harder to acquire in Chinese. One needs to learn thousands of characters.

Latin relates to the central importance of the Church in education and scientific research. Not to mention art and architecture, and music.


Universities!
 
Some historians suggest that Europe's many competing polities accelerated technological developments. Everybody is trying to get an edge on the competition.

If that were the case Vietnam would have been TL 6 a thousand years ago. If you closely study their history you'll see why. Africa same thing.
 
Nope. Anyone who knows how to distil alcohol from vegetable matter like for making moonshine knows they can do that. The reason they don't is because they aren't aiming at making fuel but a consumable. So ANYONE who knows how to distil for consumption knows they can make the same for burning using less desirable vegetable matter.

Not of need true - freeze distillation can be done with no tech higher than a large bowl... if you live in a sufficiently cold climate.

In most of those climes, the needed yeasts for fermentation aren't fond of cellulose. But they do love dilute honey, and they love mashed berries.

Viking Whiskey, aka Heart of Mead, is made by subjecting wine-strength mead to freezing temps, and pulling off the slush that forms, which is ice formed from the wort.
 
If that were the case Vietnam would have been TL 6 a thousand years ago. If you closely study their history you'll see why. Africa same thing.


No, because there are many other factors in play. I may not have made it clear enough, but I meant that the idea was that competition among polities was one factor in the mix that gave Europe an edge. Certainly not the whole explanation. Things are hardly ever that simple.
 
No, because there are many other factors in play. I may not have made it clear enough, but I meant that the idea was that competition among polities was one factor in the mix that gave Europe an edge. Certainly not the whole explanation. Things are hardly ever that simple.


Meh, I don't buy it for a nano-second. What gave the US the HUGE edge then from mid Industrial revolution on?
 
Meh, I don't buy it for a nano-second. What gave the US the HUGE edge then from mid Industrial revolution on?

in my opinion only:
Lack of regulation and the ideal that America was the land of opportunity. That one could try anything and see if it would fly. Like the Wright Brothers actually did. They didn't ask permission, and neither had a pilot's license. :)
 
Meh, I don't buy it for a nano-second. What gave the US the HUGE edge then from mid Industrial revolution on?

The US was competing with Britain and France, among others, in the 19th Century.

And the US is part of the West. It's a direct outgrowth of Britain (with some notable early input from other Western European countries). The basic institutions, by which I mean fundamental things like the Common Law, are all essentially British and predate the Revolution.
I don't think it makes sense to consider the US apart from Europe in the context of the Industrial Revolution. Trade, immigration, the culture--it's all very connected.

The rivalry between Medieval Genoa and Venice occurred within one civilization.
Or the wars between England and France.
But Medieval trade chains linking Europe and China represent long-distance and limited contact between different civilizations, which developed under very different conditions in relative isolation from one another.
 
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in my opinion only:
Lack of regulation and the ideal that America was the land of opportunity. That one could try anything and see if it would fly. Like the Wright Brothers actually did. They didn't ask permission, and neither had a pilot's license. :)

A lack of regulation ended relatively soon after the Brothers' flights...

In fact, a period prior was busting monopolies and increasing regulations. If they'd been 20 years later, they'd have been much more rigidly subjected.

The CAA was 35 years after the Wrights' first flight... and made testing of designs much more restricted for flight. But it was one of dozens of federal regulators cropping up after the great depression.

And yet, the ever increasing regulation hasn't stopped, nor has innovation. Therefore, while it may have been a factor, it's not a causal factor.
 
I'd say that state-led development and public investments in improvements have been important factors in the US, as in Europe and Russia. The US has had plenty of development directed or run by government, from the Erie Canal to Internet.
Not to mention the space program.
 
US Industrial Revolution edges included:

vast natural resources

geographically huge customs union ( ability to erect protective tariffs , thus favoring domestic manufactures, but free flow of trade internally which helped build national prosperity)

cotton

relatively many schools and universities, with land grant schools after the ACW


immigration
 
To bring it back to the OTU, the Imperium operates infrastructure that is closely tied to the tech level of member worlds: starports. The better the starport, the bigger a bonus on the TL table.

Were most starport actually built by the Imperium? Megacorps? Nobles? Are they granted as fiefs? My small OTU collection doesn't really answer this question in much detail.
I defer to the lore-mastery of you guys who know the official setting well.
 
Were most starport actually built by the Imperium? Megacorps? Nobles? Are they granted as fiefs?

AN Imperium is pretty likely within the original boundaries, though some of the oldest ports would predate even the First. And yes, megacorps probably did the actual construction in a lot of cases.

As for Nobles... not really. The Imperial Port on a world is essentially the Emperor's, as is a lot of territory around it, at least ideally. A lot of worlds aren't "ideal".
As explained to me, each world ceded a certain amount of territory (not always dry land) to the Imperium when it joined. The specific amount varies in practice, but from that Grant the Imperial Starport and all Noble fiefs are further defined. Nobles who make a lot of money may expand their holdings beyond the Imperial Grant, and may be handed more of the Imperial Grant to manage if they get a promotion. The Port itself is not technically part of that, though nobles often end up "managing" it anyway.
 
1. Naturally occurring obsidian glass was used by Stone Age societies as it fractures along very sharp edges, making it ideal for cutting tools and weapons.[20][21] Glassmaking dates back to at least 6000 years, long before humans had discovered how to smelt iron.[20] Archaeological evidence suggests that the first true synthetic glass was made in Lebanon and the coastal north Syria, Mesopotamia or ancient Egypt.[22][23] The earliest known glass objects, of the mid-third millennium BCE, were beads, perhaps initially created as accidental by-products of metalworking (slags) or during the production of faience, a pre-glass vitreous material made by a process similar to glazing.[24] Early glass was rarely transparent and often contained impurities and imperfections,[20] and is technically faience rather than true glass, which did not appear until 15th century BC.[25] However, red-orange glass beads excavated from the Indus Valley Civilization dated before 1700 BC (possibly as early as 1900 BC) predate sustained glass production, which appeared around 1600 in Mesopotamia and 1500 in Egypt.[26][27] During the Late Bronze Age there was a rapid growth in glassmaking technology in Egypt and Western Asia.[22] Archaeological finds from this period include coloured glass ingots, vessels, and beads.[22][28] Much early glass production relied on grinding techniques borrowed from stoneworking, such as grinding and carving glass in a cold state.[29]

I might be generalizing and stereotyping, but the (ancient) Chinese seem more the touchy feely type, especially when you compare medical practices; also, not quite sure if they ever thought long and hard about atomic theory.

2. Inventing something, or improving it, is one thing; profitting from it is another. Warfare is very Darwinistic, existentially so, so patents and intellectual property rights usually go out the window, with exceptions like licensing stuff like Bofors or Oerlikons. It's usually during these periods that innovations proliferate, and currently, there's a Cold War amongst our megacorporations.

3.The Imperium could have applied debt trap diplomacy to finance building of local starports, but I'm inclined to discount that, since it probably was very clear from the very beginning that they have an agency that would run the place. It's possible that after expenses, it could be in private ownership and net profits flow to those entities, which leaves the question, what happens if it's operating at a loss?

4. It comes down to an existing (or easily built up) industrial base, with access to energy and resources, like a trained workforce. Access to resources could mean having a military machine or by diplomatic means that ensure access to said resources, if they aren't locally available.

5. Ease of commerce and regulatory hurdles.

6. Security.
 
Not of need true - freeze distillation can be done with no tech higher than a large bowl... if you live in a sufficiently cold climate.

There are some funny anecdotes of moose eating fermented "hard cider" apples fallen from the trees, and getting drunk.

Me thinks you don't want a drunk moose in your back yard.
 
There are some funny anecdotes of moose eating fermented "hard cider" apples fallen from the trees, and getting drunk.

Me thinks you don't want a drunk moose in your back yard.

You really don't want a sober one there, either. They're big, stupid, and mean. Not to mention possessing the ability to kill an adult human in a single kick or gore. And the deadliest animal in North America.
 
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