CT Only: The Draft in the Third Imperium

[kilemall]

Re low berth, I go with doubling the checks but making it damage.

Still kills off kids and old folks where their 'stats' are low, or wounded people.

 

[MThompson016]

I wrote my own ideas on how the Draft works in fall of last year here: http://travellersandbox.blogspot.com/2016/10/hell-no-we-want-to-go-draft-and-third.html

Basically, it's a lottery to get selected if they say you can't get in on the first try. Considering how conscription has gone out of favor in the past forty years, I don't see it as working the way it was traditionally implemented. It's based on the Third Imperium setting, but if there's a number of High Tech, High Pop coreworlds in your setting, the same logic would apply, where population level, skill requirements and transportation distances make it managing a large effective conscript force impractical.

The Draft is a way to get players some skillz, if they don't get into the career of their choice.

That too.

 

[Supplement Four]

I'm with another poster on this one. Yes, the low-berth system is by and large automated. This does not mean the system is low tech. Very much the opposite. The technology is so advanced that freezing someone to the point where most life processes have stopped and then warming that individual back up to temperatures allowing those same life processes to resume needs little expertise to operate. When you step back and think about what the cryogenic process might look like, that is an incredible amount of automation.

Now, as to the chance of death. I touched on this in another thread. A 3% chance of dying has different meaning to people in different situations. Current events show us that some people will knowingly accept a much higher chance of death, and a much higher financial contribution, to reach a place they believe will offer them better opportunities than they have access to where they are. So the idea of people accepting a 3% failure rate somewhat fatalistically again rings true to me.

And having a doctor on hand, to again agree with another poster, makes sense for dealing with those borderline cases where someone says they'll be fine in the berth when they're really out of shape and shouldn't be anywhere near being frozen. So the doctor isn't there to run the machine, the doctor is there to catch complications in the revival process and helping someone's body get back online after shutdown.

IMTU, the lottery is more about peoples' stupidity than it is about accepting the berths kill people. I've watched people who could barely get themselves into the safety restraints riding roller coasters. If there was a lottery I'd be betting against them coming back to the station in good health. Certain people make poor choices, and the lottery (again in my opinion) is betting on how many people in the current batch of low-riders aren't being honest about their health.

TL;DR. I like the low-berth system as written, and have found explanations for MTU that fit what the text gives me for mechanics.

Good post! Golf clap.

Basically, it's a lottery to get selected if they say you can't get in on the first try.

I don't look at it as one try at a career. I look at it as life getting in the way. Life throwing you curve balls.

A person wants to be pilot. He attempts to join the Imperial Navy but doesn't make the cut. Like another poster said, there's a vast population for the Draft, and the competition must be fierce.

This person doesn't get in. Then, a message arrives. He's been drafted into his local Army! Not what he wanted to do at all, but dems the breaks.

And, I don't think there is just one "Draft". There's an Imperial Draft for the Imperial Navy. There's an Imperial Draft for the Imperial Marines. There's a local Draft for the world's Army. And, there is no real formal Draft at all for the Other career or the Merchants.

 

[Condottiere]

The Draft may also be voluntary.

It's the right of each civilian to demand a tour of Federal Service.

 

[BlackBat242]

But, i don't agree here as the roll is to revive a character from low berth. The +1 DM for expertise of Medical-2 or better is for that action--reviving.

Even if the book does say "revival", to claim that the process is an instantaneous "all-or-nothing" action that is always completed before the lid opens is to ignore how biological process work - the corpsicle may well be up and walking around when a blood vessel (weakened by the freezing/unfreezing process) pops and he collapses. A trained nurse/doctor may well be able to save him, but if he dies then you say that that is not actually a revival failure?

 

[Supplement Four]

Even if the book does say "revival", to claim that the process is an instantaneous "all-or-nothing" action that is always completed before the lid opens is to ignore how biological process work - the corpsicle may well be up and walking around when a blood vessel (weakened by the freezing/unfreezing process) pops and he collapses. A trained nurse/doctor may well be able to save him, but if he dies then you say that that is not actually a revival failure?

No, I think you and I are on the same page as to how the Low Berth works, BB.

 

[mike wightman]

Low berth travel is lifted whole cloth from the Dumarest books. In the books the risk of death was due to the berths themselves being designed for transporting animals rather than people.

In the Third Imperium setting do the CT:1-3 cold berth rules even apply as written?

The Third Imperium setting is not based completely on the RAW for LBB:1-3

IN warships have a frozen watch, the MT (and later) rules set completely within the Third Imperium setting all make low berth travel risky but not kill you (except on truly exceptional cases).

 

[aramis]

Note that a few draftees in WW II were drafted into the US Merchant Marine... gotta keep those freighter freighting. They were generally guys fit to work but being conscientious objectors. The one I met was a quaker - the draft board sent him to the MM, where he was trained afloat on merchant ferrying supplies. Whether they were supposed to is another matter entirely.

So, not always a "Fell into"...

 

[Supplement Four]

Note that a few draftees in WW II were drafted into the US Merchant Marine... gotta keep those freighter freighting. They were generally guys fit to work but being conscientious objectors. The one I met was a quaker - the draft board sent him to the MM, where he was trained afloat on merchant ferrying supplies. Whether they were supposed to is another matter entirely.

So, not always a "Fell into"...

Interesting. Didn't know that.

 

[kilemall]

I wrote my own ideas on how the Draft works in fall of last year here: http://travellersandbox.blogspot.com/2016/10/hell-no-we-want-to-go-draft-and-third.html

Basically, it's a lottery to get selected if they say you can't get in on the first try. Considering how conscription has gone out of favor in the past forty years, I don't see it as working the way it was traditionally implemented. It's based on the Third Imperium setting, but if there's a number of High Tech, High Pop coreworlds in your setting, the same logic would apply, where population level, skill requirements and transportation distances make it managing a large effective conscript force impractical.

That too.

Hmm, it could go the other way- citizens are required to do at least a term in service, or die trying.

Some make a career of it, others drop out or are forced out young. And services get stuck with less suitable human material.

This approach IMO requires a different milieu then the OTU as it has grown- more of a 'all able hands must serve' service-oriented society that is under considerable pressure due to frontiers that need exploring/exploiting/defending, or some continuing war.

 

[Ulsyus]

Hmm, it could go the other way- citizens are required to do at least a term in service, or die trying.

Some make a career of it, others drop out or are forced out young. And services get stuck with less suitable human material.

This approach IMO requires a different milieu then the OTU as it has grown- more of a 'all able hands must serve' service-oriented society that is under considerable pressure due to frontiers that need exploring/exploiting/defending, or some continuing war.

Given that a draft wouldn't apply to the Imperial services, it'd be the local planetary, system etc forces the draft would apply to.

If that's given, then the rights and obligations would be as many and varied as the planets, systems, etc. On some there may be no draft, on others a conscription system, while on others a randomly allocated national service could apply. Where it was a right, responsibility, privilege or obligation would depend from plant/system/etc culture to culture. What would overlay that would be any 3I requirements that standardised what could then be drawn from by the 3I during time of emergency, crisis or conflict.

 

[Supplement Four]

Why wouldn't an Imperial Draft apply?

 

[AsenRG]

The thing that always threw me was the concept of being drafted into the Others, given it's clearly scurrilous civvy puke nature.

I'd always assumed that you were drafted, and then promptly sent to become a medic or engineer. A spy is also an option, here, or an undercover agent.

I mean, the military forces also need people with civilian skills, right? And people who can pass for civilians?

Of course, the Other is so broad that we can assume that if you're not drafted into it, the Other is just a convenient shorthand for "non-military guys joining a starship's crew".

 

[Selandia]

Why wouldn't an Imperial Draft apply?

IMTU, the TI maintains itself by allowing a lot of self-government. Unless you are govt 6, (a colony, maybe of the TI) you simply abide by the limited rules, mostly related to interstellar trade-diplomacy-war and Imperial unified code of criminal justice.

By following this forum for somes years,(even if I post little)I believe that most people ITTU are playing along that line. This is a frequent question about the political structure of the TI in the OTU (even more in LBB CT): why would imperial laws (draft in this case) apply? where is it written that Federal-Imperial-Confederal laws overrule State-Province-Canton laws? Where is written the Constituon of the Third Imperium and its sharing of power? Is it even a written constitution (USA and Canada) or a unwritten constitution (UK)?

Have fun

Selandia

 

[epicenter00]

What we can interpolate is that the low berth is (A.) mostly automated, (B.) but does have some sort of fine tuning mechanism that requires extensive medical training to use successfully.

So, now we have a big blue button, with the words, "Press This to Revive," above it. And, there is a sealed cover over some fine-tuning controls that can be accessed and used by a person with serious, Medical-2, expertise.

I should think it has more to do with intervention. Someone with Medical-2 is sufficiently trained/knowledgeable to be able to see some of the issues with revival problems and has the knowledge to manually intervene in the revival process - perhaps injecting adrenaline into the heart (or something similar - I'm not a medical doctor IRL) or some other intervention.

However, the extent of intervention is limited. So a Medical-3 doesn't give a higher bonus than a Medical-2; a genius brain surgeon is no better at injecting a stimulant into a person as a medic.

 

[aramis]

IMTU, the TI maintains itself by allowing a lot of self-government. Unless you are govt 6, (a colony, maybe of the TI) you simply abide by the limited rules, mostly related to interstellar trade-diplomacy-war and Imperial unified code of criminal justice.

By following this forum for somes years,(even if I post little)I believe that most people ITTU are playing along that line. This is a frequent question about the political structure of the TI in the OTU (even more in LBB CT): why would imperial laws (draft in this case) apply? where is it written that Federal-Imperial-Confederal laws overrule State-Province-Canton laws? Where is written the Constituon of the Third Imperium and its sharing of power? Is it even a written constitution (USA and Canada) or a unwritten constitution (UK)?

Have fun

Selandia

In canon, Dulinor imposes a draft throughout the domain of Illellish circa 1100.

 

[Supplement Four]

In canon, Dulinor imposes a draft throughout the domain of Illellish circa 1100.

Interesting. Where'd you get that?

 

[yallambie]

Interesting. Didn't know that.

In the UK men were drafted into coal mines during the war, it was not popular...

 

[Black Vulmea]

It's not always Imperial.

IMTU the draft is never Imperial - it's always some sort of planetary or local state (on balkanized worlds) mandatory service.

And as such, available prior careers may include Navy/Marine, Army, Flyer, Sailor, Merchant (representing service aboard the planetary subsidized merchant fleet), and Other (representing some sort of paramilitary which doesn't rise to the level of an army et al).

 

[Condottiere]

I think that the Imperial Guard would be the most pragmatic application.

Each world has to have a set number of trained units ready to be Imperialized, and transported off planet.