The Imperial Army

[aramis]

Like aramis said, they were larger than the army (essentially nearly every ship had a few cross trained sailors who could serve as makeshift soldiers), but weren't like the marines nor army in terms of equipment, training and overall use.

Not the army, the marines.

Naval Infantry in the US were standing additional duty assignments, per http://www.history.navy.mil/library/online/naval_infantry.htm...
Note that during WW I, Masters At Arms. Just add a roll for infantry duty to the navy tables... and when attained, resolve as a marine infantry year, and using the Marine Infantry MOS and Shore Life tables.

1920 Equipment was a rifle, leggings, Load bearing harness, haversack, blanket, shelter half, ammunition bandolier, mess kit, canteen entrenching shovel, and duty uniform (blue or white). For intended durations over 24 hours, a rubber blanket was added, and a jacket and/or second canteen might be added.

Oh, and the standard Landing Regiment was lead by a Battalion of Marines, and included two battalions of naval infantry, and one of naval artillery...

 

[Enoki]

I see this in terms of this game like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7PCHvBIHgg

 

[Blue Ghost]

Oops, I meant marines.

 

[jackleg]

Unless you have to follow what is published, make your own decisions about the Imperial Army. I am not sure what type of campaign you are running, but there is no harm in fitting the Army's role as you see fit in YOUR campaign. Are they planet bound, or are they transferred within the sector? Each planet or sector could have their own versions of West Point, or even more than one.

Since there is no official book on this, stretch your imagination.

 

[abomination]

FWIW I base my Emperium on Victorian British Empire. (apart from fighters which are modelled on the Royal Flying Corps)

Marines are all about shipboard fighting, and raids.

All the rest comes under the Imperial army.

There are various types of units which might find themselves in Imperial army formations

1. Imperial units - troops raised specifically for Imperial service off planet usually trained & equipped close to imperial maximum. The basic unit is the battalion. Each regiment has a depot from which it recruits a number of battalions, so a Regina Battalion might be 4th Batt, Kingsbury infantry or 4th Kingsbury.

2. Guard Units. Elite troops Raised by & for the defence of the Emperor & the sector dukes. Equipped & trained to the highest levels. Deployed as part of the larger Imperial army, often in their own divisions.

3. Reserve Units. Raised and equipped in the same way as regular Imperial battalions. However the soldiers are part time, going on exercises a few weeks a year. These are only called into action in times of crisis. Reserve units are part of a regular regiment but are denoted by an "R" after their name so 215th Kingsbury (R).

4. Planetary yeomanry units. Units raised for planetary defence, sometimes asked to volunteer for service off planet. . Usually equipped to local tl along imperial lines. However there is considerable variation depending on local government type.

5. Corporation armies. Most corporations maintain forces. These are usually organised along Imperial lines. There tends to be a higher percentage of non human units and are looked down upon by the regular Imperial units. Despite this many are very effective and efficient.

 

[LeperColony]

The Imperial Army is another one of those subjects where different sources and different readings support a wide array of canonically derived views.

IMTU, I follow the "Large Army" school, where the Imperial Army exists as a centralized organization dedicated to large scale ground combat. The Marines are much smaller, better equipped and tasked for faster response roles.

 

[Vargas]

I've come to see the Marines as having the traditional naval infantry role (boarding ships, guarding Naval assets) as well as being the "kick in the door" force.

The Army is there when the Imperium expects a protracted conflict, (however that's defined), or needs to hold ground in numbers.

 

[Condottiere]

The Imperium Marines are USMC and Mobile Infantry.

While the Marines have a uniform training and doctrine, the Imperial Army may very well be the British Empire, with regional, let's say subsector/sector, variation.

 

[mike wightman]

The Imperial Army is another one of those subjects where different sources and different readings support a wide array of canonically derived views.

There are many references to an Imperial Army in CT material, too many to refute.
They are often hidden away and many authors of later works either missed them or brought incorrect pre-conceptions to the table which resulted in the mess.
If you stick to CT sources there is no doubt there is a standing Imperial Army equipped to TL15 standard.

IMTU, I follow the "Large Army" school, where the Imperial Army exists as a centralized organization dedicated to large scale ground combat. The Marines are much smaller, better equipped and tasked for faster response roles.

The Imperial Marines don't even get a mention as a the fourth service in the scouts intro...
I agree that they are state of the art, rapid response by dint of them being stationed on capital ships of the IN, AotI also suggests a degree of fanaticism that I hadn't considered before.

 

[mike wightman]

The Imperium Marines are USMC and Mobile Infantry.

I have to disagree, the USMC is a fourth service for the USA, the ISM are not regarded as equivalent to this in most sources. The UK Royal Marines are probably a closer match.

The Starship Trooper Mobile Infantry are Army, the novel doesn't mention a marine like branch - there is the Mobile Infantry and its specialist units and there is the navy that transports them from battle to battle.

While the Marines have a uniform training and doctrine, the Imperial Army may very well be the British Empire, with regional, let's say subsector/sector, variation.

I think a lesson to be learned from Marc's novel is that Imperial military units are fanatically loyal to the Imperium and the Emperor, so local variation is unlikely.
It may well be that the Imperial Army follows the Roman tradition of stationing troops well away from their area of birth just in case they have to crush dissent and the like.

 

[flykiller]

If you stick to CT sources there is no doubt there is a standing Imperial Army equipped to TL15 standard.

yeah, but what's it for? ground forces simply cannot stand against any significant naval force, so great battles are between fleets, and any ground action is simple mop-up.

 

[LeperColony]

There are many references to an Imperial Army in CT material, too many to refute.
They are often hidden away and many authors of later works either missed them or brought incorrect pre-conceptions to the table which resulted in the mess.
If you stick to CT sources there is no doubt there is a standing Imperial Army equipped to TL15 standard.

I agree that there's a large standing Imperial Army, and that there's plenty of canonical justification for it.

But T0 and GT both support the wretched "Unified Armies" concept where the I.A. is basically just a levy on individual world armies. Now, if you think about the state of the Imperium in Year 0, such a system could very well make sense at the time. It's a way to create a large army quickly and cheaply. GT can be waived away as GT, and therefore an alternate universe (though who knows if the Army stuff is post-divergence).

But both are official sources for those wanting a canonical basis for a different OTU I.A.

 

[flykiller]

heh. one notes that the discussion attempts to portray the imperial army as a strictly military force. but armies can have other roles. for example it was the roman army that built most of the roads and large-scale public works. in most countries at most times the army has served the dual role of military and police force. and in china the proverb "bad iron is used for nails, and bad men are used for soldiers" is no joke.

perhaps like in starship troopers, it's not really an army, it's more federal/imperial service - the general low-education action arm of the bureaucracy.

 

[mike wightman]

yeah, but what's it for? ground forces simply cannot stand against any significant naval force, so great battles are between fleets, and any ground action is simple mop-up.

Why did the Imperial Army get sent against Terra when all the Imperium had to do was win space superiority and bomb Earth back to the stone age?

You can not hold ground with space superiority anymore than you can hold ground with air superiority or wet navy superiority. History, right up to modern times, has shown the only way to win a war and maintain a peace afterwards is to have boots on the ground.

Unless you want to do a Carthage...

 

[Enoki]

I could more easily see the Imperial Army used not so much for offensive warfare but rather more like, as flykiller suggests, an occupying Roman army. They do a lot of civil construction work, keep the peace often acting as a police force, defend worlds near the empire's borders from invasion, and are a place for surplus manpower to be put to use.

I could easily see several battalions sent to some fledgling backwater world to "occupy" it where they engage almost entirely in building encampments for themselves along with roads and other infrastructure. The civilian population expands to provide "services" to the troops that otherwise wouldn't be there.

It doesn't matter that their construction efficiency is low by comparison with high tech level civilian operations. It keeps several thousand men occupied doing something useful when they might otherwise be on the dole and committing petty crimes.

Maybe the empire, like the Romans and British did, will grant them x number of acres of land on that planet, or elsewhere in exchange for honorable service. That gives them incentive to improve the world they're stationed on and remain loyal to the service. It could also be used to move surplus population to low population worlds.

 

[aramis]

There are many references to an Imperial Army in CT material, too many to refute.
They are often hidden away and many authors of later works either missed them or brought incorrect pre-conceptions to the table which resulted in the mess.
If you stick to CT sources there is no doubt there is a standing Imperial Army equipped to TL15 standard.

The Imperial Marines don't even get a mention as a the fourth service in the scouts intro...
I agree that they are state of the art, rapid response by dint of them being stationed on capital ships of the IN, AotI also suggests a degree of fanaticism that I hadn't considered before.

The interesting thing about the Imperial Army in the CT games (5FW, IE) is that every Counter specified the homeworld. There's not much evidence of a standing Imperial Army other than troops levied from worlds.

Some might think this insane, but it's not, really - It's essentially the UK and pre-1900 US model. Each Regiment was raised and trained locally, sent out to be used, returned to base when another regiment relieved them. (It's also why base command changeovers have such pomp and ceremony - it was the permission to take one's regiment and go home... literally.)

 

[aramis]

Why did the Imperial Army get sent against Terra when all the Imperium had to do was win space superiority and bomb Earth back to the stone age?

You can not hold ground with space superiority anymore than you can hold ground with air superiority or wet navy superiority. History, right up to modern times, has shown the only way to win a war and maintain a peace afterwards is to have boots on the ground.

Unless you want to do a Carthage...

The ability to hold in orbit and pull a planetary version of Carthage is, canonically, well within the scope of what the 3I has done.

 

[flykiller]

Why did the Imperial Army get sent against Terra when all the Imperium had to do was win space superiority and bomb Earth back to the stone age?

because they didn't want to bomb it back into the stone age.

seems to me you send in an army for the same reason you send in the marines - because you want the target intact.

 

[LeperColony]

The interesting thing about the Imperial Army in the CT games (5FW, IE) is that every Counter specified the homeworld. There's not much evidence of a standing Imperial Army other than troops levied from worlds.

First, it may simply be that's the planet where the forces are stationed. The Army isn't the Navy. They aren't going to be floating around on ships all the time, but instead they'll garrison land bases. And those bases have to be somewhere.

There's not much evidence of a standing Imperial Army other than troops levied from worlds.

The Regency Combat Vehicle Guide has many references of an Imperial Army raised and equipped by the central Imperial government. Most of these references come from the vehicle descriptions, where they talk about the specifications the Imperium designated when commissioning the vehicles.

Note also that the references I'm discussing from the RCVG, though written in 1201, are regarding pre-Collapse Imperial practices.

 

[flykiller]

The civilian population expands to provide "services" to the troops that otherwise wouldn't be there.

troop pay as strategic influence. "it would be unfortunate if I had to station a garrison here" morphs into "it would be unfortunate if we have to remove the garrison here" ....

It could also be used to move surplus population to low population worlds.

maybe the imperial army has a "frontier" arm ....