The Imperial Army

[Garnfellow]

Re-reading this thread, I see that both Aramis and Hans started off by asserting flatly that there is no Imperial Army. They're not wrong, but that's also very misleading: a lot of folks who had never read GURPS: Ground Forces appeared to misunderstand what Aramis and Hans meant and went on to pillory the author of that book for ignoring canon. A couple of posters tried to correct the record, but it didn't seem to take.

So because there seemed to be a lot of confusion, I want to back up and clarify: In Ground Forces, there definitely IS an Imperial Army -- but no Imperium-wide central command.

In G:GF the Imperial Army is organized at the subsector level, and those forces report to the Sector Duke and a sector-level command. There is no Grand General of the Imperium. But the Sector Dukes ultimately report to the Emperor, and these Imperial Armies are all very much Imperial asserts. There also appears to be considerable standardization for all Imperial Armies across the Imperium -- equipment, rank, organization, tactics, so on.

The Imperial Army units detailed in Invasion: Earth and other places in CT canon? G:GF doesn't invalidate them, and in fact several get named dropped in the text. The existence of an Imperial Intelligence branch? G:GF doesn't invalidate that either; it's described on page 32.

In fact, I'm not sure there's any specific canon that G:GF outright invalidates.

 

[aramis]

Re-reading this thread, I see that both Aramis and Hans started off by asserting flatly that there is no Imperial Army. They're not wrong, but that's also very misleading: a lot of folks who had never read GURPS: Ground Forces appeared to misunderstand what Aramis and Hans meant and went on to pillory the author of that book for ignoring canon. A couple of posters tried to correct the record, but it didn't seem to take.

So because there seemed to be a lot of confusion, I want to back up and clarify: In Ground Forces, there definitely IS an Imperial Army -- but no Imperium-wide central command.

In G:GF the Imperial Army is organized at the subsector level, and those forces report to the Sector Duke and a sector-level command. There is no Grand General of the Imperium. But the Sector Dukes ultimately report to the Emperor, and these Imperial Armies are all very much Imperial asserts. There also appears to be considerable standardization for all Imperial Armies across the Imperium -- equipment, rank, organization, tactics, so on.

The Imperial Army units detailed in Invasion: Earth and other places in CT canon? G:GF doesn't invalidate them, and in fact several get named dropped in the text. The existence of an Imperial Intelligence branch? G:GF doesn't invalidate that either; it's described on page 32.

In fact, I'm not sure there any specific canon that G:GF invalidates.

There is implication in other products that the Imperial Army does not exist except by activating local units, and as standing headquarters. It's buried in the striker bits on taxation. It's almost explicit in COACC.

Also note: centralized purchase does not mandate nor equate to a unified command system. Merely to a central authority.

Examples in the Real World:
The US Army existed only as an HQ until the 1880's; each regiment was a separate service, raised by the specific states and seconded to federal service. All were required to meet the uniform regulations and to meet the training specified therein. Men cashiered from one regiment often were able to enlist in a different one. Officers held centrally issued commissions, weapon standards were centrally issued, and the Supply Corps (which was really regimental to division strength in most of this time frame) procured and supplied the others...

The UK and Russian Empire had similarly semi-autonomous regiments, with centralized standards for formation sizes, D&C, equipment, and training.

In Fiction:
The 40K setting: The Codex Astartes sets the standards for training, implants and equipment; the autofactories produce the same standard gear in various locations - each legion has an autofac, but they all use the same basic gear. It's just how many get what that varies.

 

[LeperColony]

Re-reading this thread, I see that both Aramis and Hans started off by asserting flatly that there is no Imperial Army. They're not wrong, but that's also very misleading: a lot of folks who had never read GURPS: Ground Forces appeared to misunderstand what Aramis and Hans meant and went on to pillory the author of that book for ignoring canon. A couple of posters tried to correct the record, but it didn't seem to take.

So because there seemed to be a lot of confusion, I want to back up and clarify: In Ground Forces, there definitely IS an Imperial Army -- but no Imperium-wide central command.

In G:GF the Imperial Army is organized at the subsector level, and those forces report to the Sector Duke and a sector-level command. There is no Grand General of the Imperium. But the Sector Dukes ultimately report to the Emperor, and these Imperial Armies are all very much Imperial asserts. There also appears to be considerable standardization for all Imperial Armies across the Imperium -- equipment, rank, organization, tactics, so on.

The Imperial Army units detailed in Invasion: Earth and other places in CT canon? G:GF doesn't invalidate them, and in fact several get named dropped in the text. The existence of an Imperial Intelligence branch? G:GF doesn't invalidate that either; it's described on page 32.

In fact, I'm not sure there any specific canon that G:GF invalidates.

I don't think anyone who dislikes G:GF believes it does invalidate those things.

The central dispute I, and many others, have with the Unified Armies concept is the assumption that the Imperial Army is not a centrally raised, trained and equipped core uniformed service in the same way the Navy, Marines and Scouts are.

It's undeniable that some official (though perhaps not canonical or temporalily relevant to 1106) sources describe a de-centralized Army. But other sources also describe a centralized one. To claim there's no I.A. in the sense I and several others believe there is glosses over canonical sources.

Ultimately the issue is probably not amenable to resolution, primarily because the sources are conflicting and open to multiple interpretations.

 

[aramis]

The easiest way is to take each source in its timeframe.

COACC says

Immediate Command: Virtually all armed forces within the Imperium are organized along the same lines. Thus, the armed forces within a star system will include ground command, nautical command (if any oceans are present), and air command.
In some cases, those commands will answer directly to the Imperial military hierarchy; in other cases, the commands will answer to local Imperial nobility (for example, the duke of a sector who is in charge of military operations in support of the Imperium).
Most armed forces, however, are associated with worlds. That is, each world organizes and supports its own armed forces. As such, a world army has its own ground command, nautical command, and air. Many present and former member worlds of the Imperium maintained their own planetary armies as well. Balkanized worlds commonly have one army per nation to either further national ambitions or to deter other nations from becoming too ambitious.[COACC, p. 10]​

COACC thus gives us Dukes with forces, an upper hierarchy, and most of the troops are local units seconded.

The COACC model is really " The Imperial Army exists only as upper eschelon HQ's, and Huscarles, and a few special purpose units"... otherwise the IA would hold worlds, but all the canonical military occupations are IM...

 

[Garnfellow]

The central dispute I, and many others, have with the Unified Armies concept is the assumption that the Imperial Army is not a centrally raised, trained and equipped core uniformed service in the same way the Navy, Marines and Scouts are.

If the various Imperial Armies are all trained, equipped, and organized in basically the same way and employ the same doctrine across the entire Imperium, what difference does it make if they are centrally raised or not?

To me, the Unified Armies neatly reconciles all the disparate pieces of canon. You have an Imperial Army that is consistent across the Imperium but is simultaneously not centrally organized.

I'm just trying to understand what the problem is here, if you don't think the concept invalidates prior canon.

 

[LeperColony]

If the various Imperial Armies are all trained, equipped, and organized in basically the same way and employ the same doctrine across the entire Imperium, what difference does it make if they are centrally raised or not?

To me, the Unified Armies neatly reconciles all the disparate pieces of canon. You have an Imperial Army that is consistent across the Imperium but is simultaneously not centrally organized.

I'm just trying to understand what the problem is here, if you don't think the concept invalidates prior canon.

The problem isn't that it invalidates prior canon (because it doesn't, especially since GT isn't canonical in the strictest sense), or that it conflicts with prior canon (which it does, at least with some).

The problem is, instead, that rather than acknowledge the reality that the canonical sources support both readings, Unified Army TU people are asserting that their view is the only canonical OTU position.

In reality, it seems clear to me that different official sources and canonical works, written by different people at different times, envisioned different roles for the Imperial Army. And, as a result of these real life peculiarities, the canonical sources support both interpretations according to your preferences.

 

[Garnfellow]

The problem is, instead, that rather than acknowledge the reality that the canonical sources support both readings, Unified Army TU people are asserting that their view is the only canonical OTU position.

That's not at all what I'm saying -- I'm saying the Unified Army concept fully supports both readings. It gives us an Imperial Army across the entire Imperium and it also happens to be decentralized.

 

[LeperColony]

That's not at all what I'm saying -- I'm saying the Unified Army concept fully supports both readings. It gives us an Imperial Army across the entire Imperium and it also happens to be decentralized.

It doesn't fulfill both readings because, as it is decentralized, by definition it is not centralized. This isn't a "one is better than the other" thing. It's a "one or the other" thing, where the things are mutually exclusive.

 

[Spartan159]

All the more reason to join the Marines! *Grin duck and dodge*

 

[Garnfellow]

It doesn't fulfill both readings because, as it is decentralized, by definition it is not centralized. This isn't a "one is better than the other" thing. It's a "one or the other" thing, where the things are mutually exclusive.

OK, so the big difference between the wretched Unified Armies concept and your preferred centralized command is the additional of one more level of command above GT:GF's sector command -- "Imperium Command," based on Capital?

Are there other differences?

 

[LeperColony]

OK, so the big difference between the wretched Unified Armies concept and your preferred centralized command is the additional of one more level of command above GT:GF's sector command -- "Imperium Command," based on Capital?

Are there other differences?

Like most of the contentious Traveller topics that have canonical support for multiple divergent views, the differences depend on the exact specifics of each system.

As Aramis pointed out, there are several historical antecedents for a decentralized Army, each with their own implications. And there are also differing ways to run a centralized organization.

 

[Enoki]

Well, if there is no centrally organized army and it is done more along the lines of the British army in times past where units are raised locally, often headed by local nobles who are paying in part or whole to finance it's operations then I'd expect:

These units are equipped well below TL 15. They'd rarely have battle armor or more than light armored vehicles and even if they have the later, those would be few in number.

They act more like colonial police than a serious offensive military force.

There's a good chance many units would have serious limitations on their employment. That is, units that are raised involuntarily might not be eligible for use off their home world (France and Canada have policies like that with their militaries). The time involuntary units (eg., draftees) could be used might be fixed too (ACW for example). That means you raise a unit with troops that are in for say one year, or six months.

Heavier weapons and artillery are likely to require Imperial help to acquire and keep in serviceable condition. This stuff requires trained troops who are longer term service members and considerable funds to maintain and supply. I doubt some Count or Duke would be happily willing to purchase such stuff in a "quiet" subsector where the need for military grade forces rarely goes above a local civil war, insurrection, or terrorist problem.

That sort of warfare calls for manpower and decent arms (TL 9 -10 at most) but nothing in the way of heavy armor and artillery. The only way to get the later would be for the empire to have some units held in the subsector that are financed in part or whole from the Imperial government.

The other issue would be the army's training. This would be spotty as it is done locally. I could see some units being very well trained, others poorly trained. Some would be more for show and parades than fighting.
Even if the Imperial government issued directives for training and standards these could easily be fudged or ignored by local commanders being far from Imperial oversight. They could easily cook the books and hem and haw at field exercises citing a lack of funds.

Other places might limit such units to the equivalent of a reserve or "National Guard." That is, like the Swiss military, "the army" drills a couple of days a month or a couple of weeks a year in a call up. Outside that, they don't exist as a military unit. Again, it would come down to how much the local nobility has to shell out for this against the perceived military threats.

Now, in such a system other than specialist units for things like grav armor and artillery, I could see something along the lines of a Foreign Legion or "Regular" army. This is Imperial and you are in for "life." That might mean 20 + years of service automatically. These units are employed at the pleasure of the Emperor and can be used anywhere and everywhere. They have much higher quality / TL equipment and are well trained.
Maybe they're called something like the "Imperial Guard" or the like and are a true elite with very high recruitment standards too.

I still could see a militarized version of something like the Civilian Conservation Corps, or Organization Todt where units are raised and equipped to perform a para-military function but most of their time is taken in doing civil construction projects and the like.

 

[aramis]

OK, so the big difference between the wretched Unified Armies concept and your preferred centralized command is the additional of one more level of command above GT:GF's sector command -- "Imperium Command," based on Capital?

Are there other differences?

The biggest one is "Who do you work for?"

There are really several models people have brought up:

1. Grand Army of the Imperium Only (CT Bk2 CGen, if you squint)
2. Grand Army of the Imperium + Local Worlds' Forces
3. "HQ & Huscarles Only" Imperial Army (per COACC)
4. No Standing IA forces, World Forces Only (MT CGen)
5. Subsector Armies and Local Worlds' Armies'
6. Subsector Armies Only

Doug Berry was pretty much a champion of #2 - One unified imperium, and he cast the local worlds' armies as akin to the US National Guard - state forces, subject to federal organization, but denied any local authority to vary. Then, he implies a resurrection of the UK Regimental System but not at the regimental level....

Hans and I both championed #3, a HQ & Huscarles model. COACC is explicit that most planetary combat forces ("Army") are local. MT makes it clear that, despite one set of tables, the character is restricted to homeworld TL for the Army (and all other services), possibly except for the Navy, Scouts, and Marines. TNE has multiple army careers. T4 has multiple army careers, by TL.

Essentially, Bk4 doesn't call for an Imperial Army; it's subject to local TL of the homeworld, and so implies a BUNCH of different but very similar services. Also, unlike the Navy, there's no "Transfer up" option; there is in Bk5 & 7, and Bk 6 is explicitly the IISS.

The reality is that there was a change in thought in about 1980, and Bk 4 was never revised to match...

The Army presented in MT is directly contradicted by GT:GF, and no other sources cover the same time frame... And yes, Doug WAS aware of this. (Some rather ranty discussion via email happened.) I respect Doug, but think GT:GF has major issues.

Now, the second issues is "HQ Levels"

Peak Level for Generals in Command

• GAI HQ at/near Capital
• GAI at Domain, but directly supervised by a non-uniformed central HQ at Capital. (EG: MinArm at Capital, actual military only runs up to domain level)
• Domain IA HQ at domains
• Sector Army HQ in Sector (possibly not at Sector Capital)
• Subsector Army HQ at Subsector Capital
• Senior Huscarle Officer present in task force
• Ad-hoc from senior local military person in task force

There is a wonderful bit in WEG Star Wars that really feels like Traveller...
"Major Generals Are Everywhere"... which postulates Division Level HQ's throughout the SW Galaxy, but without actual assigned troops - local troops, when seconded to service, are slotted into the local divisions. Larger local units get assigned as needed, often by being broken up so as to prevent rebelling as a division or larger unit.

I can see a similar pattern for the IA... and here I'm inferring from some "Not Canon for the OTU" bits in CT... Striker rule 73, and TCS P31...
The average imperial citizen is from a Pop A TL 12 world. KCr16 per year. The average military budget is 3%, and the average slice to the Imperium is 30% of that. That's an average of Cr14 per citizen.
That doesn't go very far....

 

[LeperColony]

TNE is pretty supportive of something similar to #2, except that local planetary forces vary widely and are not trained and equipped to a centrally mandated standard.

 

[kilemall]

The issue of Marines as Separate Force and Marines as Naval Infantry has been in flux... but for large chunks of the USMC's existence, the Naval Infantry were a larger, less elite force doing shoreside tasks.

I own my Great Uncle's USNI study book from the WWI era. Pretty much this.

 

[kilemall]

Unless you have to follow what is published, make your own decisions about the Imperial Army. I am not sure what type of campaign you are running, but there is no harm in fitting the Army's role as you see fit in YOUR campaign. Are they planet bound, or are they transferred within the sector? Each planet or sector could have their own versions of West Point, or even more than one.

Since there is no official book on this, stretch your imagination.

HERETIC!

 

[RandyB]

The issue of Marines as Separate Force and Marines as Naval Infantry has been in flux... but for large chunks of the USMC's existence, the Naval Infantry were a larger, less elite force doing shoreside tasks.

I own my Great Uncle's USNI study book from the WWI era. Pretty much this.

IMTU, I prefer the Marines as Separate Force, with a coexistent Naval Infantry. One key difference being that the Marines have a separate chain of command, with Marine units seconded to Naval command when serving as ship's troops. Naval Infantry, on the other hand, are fully within the routine Navy chain of command. This becomes significant when the Navy identifies a need to have boots-on-the-dirt and the Marines are not administratively available within a viable timeframe. Of course, Naval Infantry is not always logistically available, so you have the kinds of "cracks-in-the-coverage" that, for example, player character mercenary units can be called upon to fill.

 

[Enoki]

I would point to #3 but not with retainers per the Medieval tradition, instead using something like the British regiment system where nobles raise units of varying size, officering them as they see fit but using commoners who either volunteer or are "impressed" or drafted into service.
These units would also have varying incentives for pay and allowances, terms of service, etc., within a set of Imperial standards. This is because of the inclusion of nobility in Traveller.
That would be an interesting inclusion too as you could easily imagine that commissions could be purchased by the wealthy or connected, and nobles would automatically qualify for commissions (knights might be required to purchase theirs, particularly if they want higher ranks).

I'd also say they are very, very likely to have a much lower TL of equipment than the standing Imperial Army.

Another thing I could see here is something like the Dutch East India Company with larger corporations. That is, they often take care of their own problems rather than call on the government. A megacorporation might have their own "merchant cruisers" armed as warships and a private "security" force of mercenaries to deal with problems involving "conflict resolution."

These forces would likely be, at least to some degree, available to the Imperium for military purposes when necessary. That is, the Imperium could "nationalize" them when called for.

Given the extent that mercenaries are included in character generation from CT on, I think this would be an addition that isn't mentioned on the list above.

So, I'd postulate the following:

An organized Imperial Army. But, it concentrates mostly on units with heavy equipment and high technology. There are some high tech (eg., battle armor etc.) infantry units. These are few in number but exceptionally well trained.

An organized militia / regiment system that relies on the nobility at sector, sub-sector, and local levels to establish, train, and equip. There are standards but they're loose. These units fill out the ranks of the Imperial Army when needed. Most of the time they serve locally. Training and equipment is often iffy. They require several months of training at a minimum to be brought up to combat capable and might require re-equipping.

A mercenary force raised by megacorporations and other NGO's as a security force to protect their operations from piracy and local "warlords." Their merchant cruisers and other armed ships constitute an auxiliary force for the Imperial Navy. These ships are focused on anti-piracy and convoy escort type missions. Mercenary security troops are organized to take care of local problems where these corporations do business, particularly outside the empire.

As for the Marines: These are an offensive force aboard Imperial Navy vessels. They are supplemented when necessary by Naval infantry or navy personnel manning things like heavy weapons. They are not outfitted for major wars but rather to handle problems that occur with a system or maybe a subsector like an insurrection. They are a fast reaction force and not intended for long term high attrition combat.

 

[LeperColony]

"HQ & Huscarles Only" Imperial Army (per COACC)

Interestingly, according to the RCVG on page 47, the Huscarles were never part of the Imperial Army, and don't come under the umbrella of the centralized administration until after the end of noble rule.

 

[Condottiere]

I've been fooling around with the make up of the Solomani military, but there's some relevance to the Imperium one.

The Navy has enough problems maintaining command and control on a domain level, but they have the infrastructure to keep in touch with their major headquarters; the Army can piggy back on that, but they have low priority, which would make most attempts to so rather outdated, and make local commands far more self reliant.

They can transfer reserves around to make up or bolster numbers, set war goals, and prioritize logistics, but that's probably it.

Like the Roman legions stationed on the Rhine, they're pretty much on their own, it's unlikely that any Army headquarters above the Sector level will have a direct influence, and can coordinate with the local sector fleet.