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The Universal Game Mechanic (revised)

Originally posted by Jeffr0:
But... isn't there a problem with the critical failure.

High stats and skills and low difficulty all increase my chance for a critical success... AND they increase the chance of failure, too.
Click to expand...
That's not a problem, Jeffr0, that's a feature!

You've got it a little wrong though...

The throw for Crit Success is Stat or less on 3D to achieve Crit Success. It will be easier to achieve Crit Success on easier tasks (and it's easier for those with better natural ability).

Here's where you have it wrong, though: The check for Crit Failure is Stat or less on 3D to avoid Crit Failure. So, it's easier to avoid Crit Failure on easier tasks, and it's easier to avoid them for those with better natural ability.
 
Originally posted by Jeffr0:
But... isn't there a problem with the critical failure.

High stats and skills and low difficulty all increase my chance for a critical success... AND they increase the chance of failure, too.
Click to expand...
That's not a problem, Jeffr0, that's a feature!

You've got it a little wrong though...

The throw for Crit Success is Stat or less on 3D to achieve Crit Success. It will be easier to achieve Crit Success on easier tasks (and it's easier for those with better natural ability).

Here's where you have it wrong, though: The check for Crit Failure is Stat or less on 3D to avoid Crit Failure. So, it's easier to avoid Crit Failure on easier tasks, and it's easier to avoid them for those with better natural ability.
 
Ah.... So the Stat check is a saving throw for crit failure.

Doh!

Now I get it.

Why didn't I see that this morning?
 
Ah.... So the Stat check is a saving throw for crit failure.

Doh!

Now I get it.

Why didn't I see that this morning?
 
Originally posted by Jeffr0:
Ah.... So the Stat check is a saving throw for crit failure.

Doh!

Now I get it.
Click to expand...
Yep. A roll of boxcars doesn't necessarily mean that your character just rolled a Critical Success. It's an indication that a Crit Success may have been achieved.

A check is made: Roll Stat or less on 3D.

Use DMs for difficulty and skill level to modifiy the roll.

If this check is successful, then a Crit Success has been rolled. Otherwise, if your modified roll is higher than your stat, the roll stands as is (either a normal success or failure--whatever was rolled).


The Crit Failure is done just a tad bit differently.

When snake-eyes are rolled, then a Crit Failure has occurred unless the check to avoid the Crit Failure succeeds.

The check is the same as above. Roll Stat or less on 3D using task difficulty DM and Skill level as DMs on the roll.

If this check is successful, then the Crit Failure is avoided. If this check fails, then the character is penalized with a Crit Failure.
 
Originally posted by Jeffr0:
Ah.... So the Stat check is a saving throw for crit failure.

Doh!

Now I get it.
Click to expand...
Yep. A roll of boxcars doesn't necessarily mean that your character just rolled a Critical Success. It's an indication that a Crit Success may have been achieved.

A check is made: Roll Stat or less on 3D.

Use DMs for difficulty and skill level to modifiy the roll.

If this check is successful, then a Crit Success has been rolled. Otherwise, if your modified roll is higher than your stat, the roll stands as is (either a normal success or failure--whatever was rolled).


The Crit Failure is done just a tad bit differently.

When snake-eyes are rolled, then a Crit Failure has occurred unless the check to avoid the Crit Failure succeeds.

The check is the same as above. Roll Stat or less on 3D using task difficulty DM and Skill level as DMs on the roll.

If this check is successful, then the Crit Failure is avoided. If this check fails, then the character is penalized with a Crit Failure.
 
Originally posted by WJP:
Use DMs for difficulty and skill level to modifiy the roll.
Click to expand...
So the higher the skill and the lower the difficulty, the less chances to roll below the Characteristic and thus the less chance for a spectacular success?

Rather than use this mechanic, I'd prefer a second regular skill check to ascertain a Spectacular Success or to avoid a Spectacular Failure. I.e. you rolled a natural 12? Roll again, add Skill and Characteristic DMs, add/substract the Difficulty DM, and if the total is equal or less than 8, you've either avoided a Spectacular Failure or ascertained a Spectacular success.
 
Originally posted by WJP:
Use DMs for difficulty and skill level to modifiy the roll.
Click to expand...
So the higher the skill and the lower the difficulty, the less chances to roll below the Characteristic and thus the less chance for a spectacular success?

Rather than use this mechanic, I'd prefer a second regular skill check to ascertain a Spectacular Success or to avoid a Spectacular Failure. I.e. you rolled a natural 12? Roll again, add Skill and Characteristic DMs, add/substract the Difficulty DM, and if the total is equal or less than 8, you've either avoided a Spectacular Failure or ascertained a Spectacular success.
 
Originally posted by Employee 2-4601:
So the higher the skill and the lower the difficulty, the less chances to roll below the Characteristic and thus the less chance for a spectacular success?
Click to expand...
Nope. Quickie example to explain.

Fred. INT-7. Computer-3.

Fred's working on a computer in a derelict spacecraft, trying to recover the ship's log. The GM states this is a Difficult roll, as the computer is beat up and exposed to possible decompression explosion.

The task is: INT/Computer/-2

Fred rolls box cars on his task. Which means a Crit Success may be attained.

The check is:

3D -1 for 7 or less (or, you could throw) 3D for 8 or less.

The Difficulty mod makes the check harder. The Skill mod makes the check easier.


Rather than use this mechanic, I'd prefer a second regular skill check to ascertain a Spectacular Success or to avoid a Spectacular Failure. I.e. you rolled a natural 12? Roll again, add Skill and Characteristic DMs, add/substract the Difficulty DM, and if the total is equal or less than 8, you've either avoided a Spectacular Failure or ascertained a Spectacular success.
Click to expand...
I prefer the way I suggest above because a character's natural ability is addressed to a much greater degree.

In usual UGM throws, a character's natural ability is typically addressed to the tune of +0DM or +1DM (a small percentage of the time as a +2DM). And, that's fine most of the time -- what we're saying is that natural ability bonus, when it applies, is as good as having a Level-1 skill (or one skill level higher than normal).

BUT, when the Crit Success and Crit Failure comes into play, the characters with higher natural ability will have a much better shot at achieving Crit Success or avoiding Crit Failure.
 
Originally posted by Employee 2-4601:
So the higher the skill and the lower the difficulty, the less chances to roll below the Characteristic and thus the less chance for a spectacular success?
Click to expand...
Nope. Quickie example to explain.

Fred. INT-7. Computer-3.

Fred's working on a computer in a derelict spacecraft, trying to recover the ship's log. The GM states this is a Difficult roll, as the computer is beat up and exposed to possible decompression explosion.

The task is: INT/Computer/-2

Fred rolls box cars on his task. Which means a Crit Success may be attained.

The check is:

3D -1 for 7 or less (or, you could throw) 3D for 8 or less.

The Difficulty mod makes the check harder. The Skill mod makes the check easier.


Rather than use this mechanic, I'd prefer a second regular skill check to ascertain a Spectacular Success or to avoid a Spectacular Failure. I.e. you rolled a natural 12? Roll again, add Skill and Characteristic DMs, add/substract the Difficulty DM, and if the total is equal or less than 8, you've either avoided a Spectacular Failure or ascertained a Spectacular success.
Click to expand...
I prefer the way I suggest above because a character's natural ability is addressed to a much greater degree.

In usual UGM throws, a character's natural ability is typically addressed to the tune of +0DM or +1DM (a small percentage of the time as a +2DM). And, that's fine most of the time -- what we're saying is that natural ability bonus, when it applies, is as good as having a Level-1 skill (or one skill level higher than normal).

BUT, when the Crit Success and Crit Failure comes into play, the characters with higher natural ability will have a much better shot at achieving Crit Success or avoiding Crit Failure.
 
Your use of 3d6 seems unusual in CT, but it means that characters with low stats are rarely going to get critical successes and are going to often screw up big time. That sounds about like some Int-5 Computer-2 professionals I've worked with. Common sense and creative thinking have a lot to do with catching the big errors and making the breakthroughs.
 
Your use of 3d6 seems unusual in CT, but it means that characters with low stats are rarely going to get critical successes and are going to often screw up big time. That sounds about like some Int-5 Computer-2 professionals I've worked with. Common sense and creative thinking have a lot to do with catching the big errors and making the breakthroughs.
 
Originally posted by Jeffr0:
Your use of 3d6 seems unusual in CT, but it means that characters with low stats are rarely going to get critical successes and are going to often screw up big time. That sounds about like some Int-5 Computer-2 professionals I've worked with. Common sense and creative thinking have a lot to do with catching the big errors and making the breakthroughs.
Click to expand...
Like you, I like the effect as well.

I don't think I agree that the 3D throw is an unusual choice for CT, though. Granted, the 2D throw is used most often in CT, but there are examples of 3D (or more) used in CT.

Don't forget, too, that the pseudo task system in The Traveller Adventure suggests using 3D throws (or more) at some time. More dice is considered under "Die Rolling Convetions" in the Traveller Book.

Book 0 gives a table for percentage chance of success using 1D, 2D, 3D, 4D, and D66. Both 2D and 3D checks for attribute or less are common in CT.

And, from time to time, you'll see a skill description or a throw mentioned in an adventure requiring a number of dice be thrown other than the usual 2.
 
Originally posted by Jeffr0:
Your use of 3d6 seems unusual in CT, but it means that characters with low stats are rarely going to get critical successes and are going to often screw up big time. That sounds about like some Int-5 Computer-2 professionals I've worked with. Common sense and creative thinking have a lot to do with catching the big errors and making the breakthroughs.
Click to expand...
Like you, I like the effect as well.

I don't think I agree that the 3D throw is an unusual choice for CT, though. Granted, the 2D throw is used most often in CT, but there are examples of 3D (or more) used in CT.

Don't forget, too, that the pseudo task system in The Traveller Adventure suggests using 3D throws (or more) at some time. More dice is considered under "Die Rolling Convetions" in the Traveller Book.

Book 0 gives a table for percentage chance of success using 1D, 2D, 3D, 4D, and D66. Both 2D and 3D checks for attribute or less are common in CT.

And, from time to time, you'll see a skill description or a throw mentioned in an adventure requiring a number of dice be thrown other than the usual 2.
 
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