Lorenverse, is a step back. Not having the rebellion, break up of 3I, collapse of the Regency or anything from 1248. The Empress Wave is open for not ruffling the feathers of anyone. Just a distress call. The K'Kree are not driven to destroy anything. Virus does not exist.
When the Lorenverse and the OTU meet
- Thread starter robject
- Start date
Lorenverse, is a step back. Not having the rebellion, break up of 3I, collapse of the Regency or anything from 1248. The Empress Wave is open for not ruffling the feathers of anyone. Just a distress call. The K'Kree are not driven to destroy anything. Virus does not exist.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
What other visions for the setting were there?
The Millerverse of T5 is very different to the OTU of the post 81 era through to MT, and MT itself was the Fugateverse. TNE was the Nilsenverse - or were they?
What input did the other folk at GDW have in developing the setting? Was the GT OTU all Loren?
The Millerverse of T5 is very different to the OTU of the post 81 era through to MT, and MT itself was the Fugateverse. TNE was the Nilsenverse - or were they?
What input did the other folk at GDW have in developing the setting? Was the GT OTU all Loren?
I suspect it was not just Loren. Of course, Marc knew about the license sunset, made by mutual agreement, about a year out. So even back then they knew the LTU needed to transfer. I suspect Marc and Don both were at least aware of how the milieu was developing, and became more involved more recently.
I suppose part of the question is: does the LTU even need to be detailed for Milieu 1900? The LTU exists as a stable alternate setting for the continuation of the Golden Era. It certainly might be interesting to detail a future history for it several hundred years hence, but really isn't the primary need for the LTU that the the period from 1120 to ~1190 be detailed? In other words, where is that setting going in its own immediate future?
I believe it's clearly spelled out in GTU. If we look back, Loren went to GTU and utilized it as an opportunity to satisfy the "we don't like the rebellion crowd."
Dulinor becomes a burp in 3I history.
Yes he probably is. There may be no issue. Someone with an extensive GTU background would have to identify it. I read through a lot of it when COTI started but chose T20 instead. But it's been too long. It might be in the TNS GTU updates.
As I recall, the GTU/LTU published information for 1116-1120 is in its game books, and its TNS releases went from 1121-1130. But those TNS releases were very sparse, especially after about 1125 or so.
IIRC, there were apparently some hints of things that might happen, but nothing that was really developed past ~1120.
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They (Don and Loren and perhaps Marc) have sketched out the timeline well into the subsequent decades. I was not part of that discussion (not that I would have time to do that anyhow).
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And I would love tho see that timeline published as a sourcebook at some point.
That and adventures was the intent.
Yes I am well aware of the differences. Have all the GURPS books. My response is to robject's OP (thought exercise) to go along that in some far future both timelines reunite at some point. I am working it from the wonky time travel idea that BOTH sets of events occurred, but far later it all turns out the same. Something like Asimov's The End of Eternity where there is a manipulation of events. But like in the novel, go up the "kettle" 20 centuries and things still turn out the same anyways.
Does my writing imply a lack of knowledge or respect for either the OTU or the Lorenverse?
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calormen.com is me, actually.
The first half of 1248 Sourcebook 1 is the history 1116 through 1248 in usual MJD detail.
Respect no, of course not. But hey, I walked in on the interesting conversation. The time-lines/universes would not interact again.
The amount of damage done to 3I during the rebellion is not recoverable. There is no convergence; Trillions dead, entire worlds destroyed, borders changed even without Virus. Furthermore, 1248 did a poor job of leveling the playing field to stability. Meaning that a K'Kree invasion of any sort further obliterates the environment.
This seems to recur in Asimov's works. The concept of psychohistory as a tool of prediction and manipulation is predicated on chaos having minimal effects on the outcome of events at a large scale.
That has no necessary bearing on the potential for a future convergence.
Doesn't it? 4I was OTU but that means little. It was a very different structure. It built itself on trade not conquest. Can timeline convergence really occur? It probably depends on the end objective. If the only objective is empire then probably. If it's Avery trying to manipulate the future for a new empire then it's a different story. 4I said it had no declared borders but is there another objective.
In this case, there is a new race an old enemy has been elevated and met in battle. It will always be different.
OK, I get where you are coming from now savage.
The goal of the mental exercise necessarily MAY require alterations of Lorenverse. Not in the near term like say up to the 1130s, not in some slightly later time like the 1200's or 1300's or some such, but much later ones say by the 1900s (Galaxiad) or further.
What will this even further future look like? Perhaps it is to get as many disparate element resolved. Will it be perfect? Not without some give and take.
For example Virus. Lorenverse never had it. Fine. But OTU did. What do you want in 1900? For Virus not to be around? No problem.
Perhaps the Cyms as a species undergo technological progression ala T5.09 Lifespan of a Species rules. They spin themselves and uplift their Viral Hell brethren to Tech Level Z and out of our universe. They don't tell the Humans, Aslan, Vargr, etc. because we would only drag them down to one of their alternate destinies. We spend some generations going "Are they really gone? What happened?" By 1900, they are gone and both timelines are more in sync with each other.
The goal of the mental exercise necessarily MAY require alterations of Lorenverse. Not in the near term like say up to the 1130s, not in some slightly later time like the 1200's or 1300's or some such, but much later ones say by the 1900s (Galaxiad) or further.
What will this even further future look like? Perhaps it is to get as many disparate element resolved. Will it be perfect? Not without some give and take.
For example Virus. Lorenverse never had it. Fine. But OTU did. What do you want in 1900? For Virus not to be around? No problem.
Perhaps the Cyms as a species undergo technological progression ala T5.09 Lifespan of a Species rules. They spin themselves and uplift their Viral Hell brethren to Tech Level Z and out of our universe. They don't tell the Humans, Aslan, Vargr, etc. because we would only drag them down to one of their alternate destinies. We spend some generations going "Are they really gone? What happened?" By 1900, they are gone and both timelines are more in sync with each other.
