Whither T20?
- Thread starter Allensh
- Start date
M
Malenfant
Guest
Thank you. Precisely why I spelled it that way.[/QB][/QUOTE]Originally posted by Allensh:
[/qb]
This is a pet peeve of mine, I've seen people say "Whither (RPG)" on RPG.net several times in the same context and it drives me nuts because it's wrong.
"Whither T20?" means nothing - it literally means "To where T20?". It's an adverb, and thus you need a verb in there for it to make any sense. So "Whither goes T20" is what you really mean.
The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
I think a lot of the withering comes from a lack of focus, and perhaps lack of pride in the product. I hear a lot of talk of Halo, or Firefly, or what have you, and not enough talk of Traveller. There seems to be a big rush to cram Traveller into someone else's shoes, instead of its own.
BTW, Mal, I play MOST whatever is out there at least once. Halo is Halo. Firefly is Firefly. Traveller is ?. Maybe you could actually try to see my point, rather than snarkitizing me for wanting to see this getting on 30 year old entity go somewhere besides to some other entity.
Good seein' ya again, buddy!
BTW, Mal, I play MOST whatever is out there at least once. Halo is Halo. Firefly is Firefly. Traveller is ?. Maybe you could actually try to see my point, rather than snarkitizing me for wanting to see this getting on 30 year old entity go somewhere besides to some other entity.
Good seein' ya again, buddy!
M
Malenfant
Guest
Probably that's because because "its own shoes" are rather lame, outdated and irrelevant by modern standards?
People liked Firefly because it was cool and because it was good TV. Traveller is not too dissimilar in its general format, yet very few people would call it 'cool' nowadays. Discuss.
And also, Traveller was originally supposed to be a generic scifi game. So there's arguably nothing even wrong with 'cramming it in someone else's shoes' since that was the whole point of the game in the first place. I think MWM even said as much in the afterword of Book 3?
Or maybe you could start understanding why a 30 year old game taken on its own merits isn't particularly interesting to people nowadays?
I wasn't "snarkitising" you anyway - your position seems to be "Bah! It's new! It's not Traveller! It shouldn't be in there and I'm going to ignore it!" , but then you complain that it doesn't connect with people today who are into all that new stuff.
If you insist on closing your mind to all modern influences just because they're new or different, then you're going to do nothing at all to make the game more attractive to people who are into that stuff (which is a lot of people nowadays).
The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
No, my position is that in spite of its generic roots, Traveller DOES have a background imposed on it, and that background after all this time should be developed into a "look" that is comparable to others out there in scope. Yet, it is not.
It should have its due, that's all. As far as "ignoring" the others goes, impossible. There are plenty of Firefly people out there, but I suspect its a case of a thirsty person coming thru a desert and Mr. Whedon gives them a thimble of water. Years of bad sci fi or weak sci fi has lowered the bar some.
It is why you see "Alien" and "Starship Troopers" and such rehashed and redressed eternally.
It should have its due, that's all. As far as "ignoring" the others goes, impossible. There are plenty of Firefly people out there, but I suspect its a case of a thirsty person coming thru a desert and Mr. Whedon gives them a thimble of water. Years of bad sci fi or weak sci fi has lowered the bar some.
It is why you see "Alien" and "Starship Troopers" and such rehashed and redressed eternally.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Try it now...
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I find myself agreeing with the sentiment here Mal.
One of the things I really like about the TNE setting, and the new 1248 stuff, is that many modern sci-fi ideas can now easily be included in a Traveller game.
Although I still maintain that it is possible to use the original CT rules to run a game set in a universe like the Culture etc.
The Guilded Lilly could be run as a Firefly/Serenity adventure with minimal changes. A lot of the frontier feel of Firefly/Serenity can also be transposed to the CT worlds off the major trade lanes - at least that's how it works IMTU
Yep, he did.
Steal as much from sci-fi literature as you like - Traveller will adapt to it.
Again I agree, Traveller should be able to grow as ideas and imagination do...
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I think the 1248 setting allows you to do just that.
An awful lot of the third Imperium's restrictures were culturally self-imposed IMHO - robots and psionics to name the most obvious.
M
Malenfant
Guest
Oh, I see. I think part of the problem is that the background has frankly never really been all that unique (with the exception of TNE and 1248). When I think of Traveller I think of "standard generic space empire full of old scifi cliche", there's nothing in it that really screams "oh my god this is so cool!!" at me. And it's such a mishmash of settings too, where you can have a stone age world next to a high tech world next to an industrial age world... I think it's just too unfocussed to really click with people. 1248 and TNE got rid of that by at least having some kind of reason for it to be that way.
The trick is the presentation I think. We've got enough rule systems and we really don't need any more (and why MWM is even bothering with a new one that nobody is going to use is beyond me. He should really be focussing on the setting itself at this stage, but I bet that's going to play second fiddle to all his system tweaking). If someone put out a setting book that was richly detailed, well written with evocative writing, had lots of good illustrative art capturing the feel of the setting, and also broke free from the shackles of "genericness" then that might give the game more attention.
1248 is definitely a step in the right direction IMO, but unfortunately Avenger don't seem to really have the resouces to present it in a way that will make everyone turn their heads.
I suspect that people like Firefly because it was GOOD. And there's been plenty of good scifi in recent years. Babylon 5, the new BSG, Doctor Who, Pitch Black/Chronicles of Riddick, Event Horizon, Firefly... I don't think the bar's been lowered at all by any of that. All of these have been well received and critically acclaimed - just because you may not like them doesn't mean that everyone else is wrong.
Funny, I haven't really seen those "rehashed or redressed" much at all lately.
P
Pickles
Guest
Cool as the LBBs are, I agree that one of the biggest contributors to Traveller's recognisability is a lack of artwork. Not just coherent or good artwork, but any kind of artwork. I know some of the later versions made up for it to some extent, but IIRC Traveller has always lagged behind other games in the visualisation department.
RuneQuest, for example, will always be typified for me by the rather scribbly sketches adorning the interiors of the second edition rules and supplements. Traveller needs a 'look' to allow it to be recognised.
RuneQuest, for example, will always be typified for me by the rather scribbly sketches adorning the interiors of the second edition rules and supplements. Traveller needs a 'look' to allow it to be recognised.
Michael Taylor
SOC-13
Quote from MaL: "1248 is definitely a step in the right direction IMO, but unfortunately Avenger don't seem to really have the resouces to present it in a way that will make everyone turn their heads."
Correct. But that will change when I win the lottery this Saturday
Correct. But that will change when I win the lottery this Saturday
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
The latest email from ComStar says that the dead tree version could be out later this summer...
Michael Taylor
SOC-13
Yes - i've just sent the final print files to Comstar for printing...
Ok, thread working for me now.
People have been cribbing from other sources for Traveller adventure ideas and setting flavor since the start, esp. since there was no OTU per se at the start. Considering that the OTU is a largely a mismash of science fiction sources anyway this isn't surprising to me and I'm fine that it's still continuing. IMO this being a game not a novel, I'll crib from *any* source I find something useful to spark my game.
Would folk here rather have someone be inspired by a show they've seen or a book they've read and play another sci-fi RPG or be inspired and give Traveller a try? I know I started D&D because I'd had the Hobbit read to me.
If you want the OTU in detail, with a plot, Survival Margin on really gets going (though FFW started that) for GDW books, GT does a good job as well, and now 1248 is out. But then BSG doesn't really care for MT-on OTU, which results in an impasse. And metaplots in RPGs are very tricky to pull off and usually not received well.
I won't comment on T20's status as that might be seen as damaging to QLI and T20, which is not allowed here on CotI.
People have been cribbing from other sources for Traveller adventure ideas and setting flavor since the start, esp. since there was no OTU per se at the start. Considering that the OTU is a largely a mismash of science fiction sources anyway this isn't surprising to me and I'm fine that it's still continuing. IMO this being a game not a novel, I'll crib from *any* source I find something useful to spark my game.
Would folk here rather have someone be inspired by a show they've seen or a book they've read and play another sci-fi RPG or be inspired and give Traveller a try? I know I started D&D because I'd had the Hobbit read to me.
If you want the OTU in detail, with a plot, Survival Margin on really gets going (though FFW started that) for GDW books, GT does a good job as well, and now 1248 is out. But then BSG doesn't really care for MT-on OTU, which results in an impasse. And metaplots in RPGs are very tricky to pull off and usually not received well.
I won't comment on T20's status as that might be seen as damaging to QLI and T20, which is not allowed here on CotI.
Has anyone done any work on converting D20 Future stuff to T20 Traveller? Particularly spaceships and vehicles and the like.
Seems to me that one possible role for T20 could be as an alternate version of D20 Traveller. A Traveller version of the Stardrive setting is what comes to mind. I think T20 can do Stardrive alot better that D20 Future could, at least the fit is more exact.
Seems to me that one possible role for T20 could be as an alternate version of D20 Traveller. A Traveller version of the Stardrive setting is what comes to mind. I think T20 can do Stardrive alot better that D20 Future could, at least the fit is more exact.
Any luck?Originally posted by Michael Taylor:
Quote from MaL: "1248 is definitely a step in the right direction IMO, but unfortunately Avenger don't seem to really have the resouces to present it in a way that will make everyone turn their heads."
Correct. But that will change when I win the lottery this Saturday
Seriously though, why don't you run an artwork competition, winning entries get published as the prize, and maybe a signed copy of the book when its published.
There could be different categories, ie: briefs, and maybe some for covers/full page and some for interior b/w line art or sidebars. Or CGI, hand drawn, combination, etc.
There's plenty and varied talent on this board, and I'm sure most of us would be willing to remain unpaid in return for a bit of recognition and a well presented guidebook.
Does this have any mileage?
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
Hey. I'll submit artwork on that basis. Just let me know when and where.
