Whither T20?
- Thread starter Allensh
- Start date
I have to agree about the 'look' of Traveller that several people have mentioned in this thread. The original LBB and Travellers Aid were very limited in terms of artwork. Megatraveller did not improve things much either. TNE followed MT with some very similar stuff. There was a good opportunity with T4, when they had Chris Foss, but it looks like they payed him milk bottle tops or something. Most of the artwork is pretty poor and looks rushed and unfinished. The full color pages are just eye candy and reproductions of old Chris Foss pictures that I have seen before. They are just stuck there and none of them are really Traveller related. T4 also seems to conflict with the artwork of all the other versions. GURPS has some better artwork, but it looks very much like a lot of other GURPS books. The exceptions being the 3D renderings by Jesse DeGraff. T20 is okay, but nothing to write home about.
I think the only thing that has stayed consistant has been the artwork for the standard ships. (Except for T4, which went off on a weird tangent and redesigned most of them.)
An art submission program would be cool, but to avoid the mistakes of the past I think a consensus of the 'look' would be a good idea. Personally I think you can have several art styles in one book if the editing is well done. Total inconsistancies need to be weeded out. For the space pics, I would like to see CG renderings because I think they look the best.
It would be really nice if there were a set of 3D models out there that everyone could use, but creating them is no simple feat. I have just started trying to do some 3d modelling myself and it's really time consuming. There are a load of free 3d meshes for Star Wars and Star Trek, but I have never found any Traveller related ones. Does anyone know of any?
--- edit 7-7-06 ---
I edited this post after realising I had the artwork of TNE and T4 mixed up.
Personally, the 'new' designs/illustrations of some of the standard ship designs totally put me off this version of Traveller.
--- edit ---
I think the only thing that has stayed consistant has been the artwork for the standard ships. (Except for T4, which went off on a weird tangent and redesigned most of them.)
An art submission program would be cool, but to avoid the mistakes of the past I think a consensus of the 'look' would be a good idea. Personally I think you can have several art styles in one book if the editing is well done. Total inconsistancies need to be weeded out. For the space pics, I would like to see CG renderings because I think they look the best.
It would be really nice if there were a set of 3D models out there that everyone could use, but creating them is no simple feat. I have just started trying to do some 3d modelling myself and it's really time consuming. There are a load of free 3d meshes for Star Wars and Star Trek, but I have never found any Traveller related ones. Does anyone know of any?
--- edit 7-7-06 ---
I edited this post after realising I had the artwork of TNE and T4 mixed up.
Personally, the 'new' designs/illustrations of some of the standard ship designs totally put me off this version of Traveller.--- edit ---
Yet another curve down for Traveller it looks like. What a damned shame. It's the best "generic space opera galactic civilization" campaign setting ever devised imho.
I use a lot of T20 rules in my D20 games, especially Lifeblood, but I'll be the first to admit that the T20 rulebook is in desperate need of a 2.0 version, and that version by someone other than who did the 1.0 version, sorry.
I use a lot of T20 rules in my D20 games, especially Lifeblood, but I'll be the first to admit that the T20 rulebook is in desperate need of a 2.0 version, and that version by someone other than who did the 1.0 version, sorry.
I've seen a lot of complaining on this board about the need for a 2.0 version of the T20 PHB, but I disagree. I've found everything in the book very useful, and after the 2nd printing, it all works very well too.
Instead of a new edition or version, I'd like to see more source material. The Imperium is a vast empire and the amount of material that can be created for it using the T20 rules (along with CT stats) is endless.
I'd also like to see more "dead tree" versions of the PDF's released so far. It's all good stuff, good enough for me to purchase and have printed, which I rarely do.
QLI has done a good job, IMHO, but it's been too long now since any new product has been released. I understand Hunter has gone through some rough times as of late, but perhaps his partner can continue in his absence. I don't even know if that's feasible, probably not or Martin would have already done so.
Sorry for the rambling, I just miss the shiney newness of product and think the current version of T20 is fine. I'd like to see any revenue go toward the progression of the line, not start back at square one.
Instead of a new edition or version, I'd like to see more source material. The Imperium is a vast empire and the amount of material that can be created for it using the T20 rules (along with CT stats) is endless.
I'd also like to see more "dead tree" versions of the PDF's released so far. It's all good stuff, good enough for me to purchase and have printed, which I rarely do.
QLI has done a good job, IMHO, but it's been too long now since any new product has been released. I understand Hunter has gone through some rough times as of late, but perhaps his partner can continue in his absence. I don't even know if that's feasible, probably not or Martin would have already done so.
Sorry for the rambling, I just miss the shiney newness of product and think the current version of T20 is fine. I'd like to see any revenue go toward the progression of the line, not start back at square one.
Michael Taylor
SOC-13
Martin is continuing to publish Traveller material through his own vehicle - Avenger (www.comstar-games.com) because of the problems with getting material published through QLI. Avenger now has 23 titles out.
Direct links for the lazy... like me!
Avenger
http://www.avengerenterprises.co.uk/
TAS Forums
http://www.traveller.comstar-games.com/
Com-Star Traveller
http://www.comstar-games.com/traveller/
Timelines 1248 and 993 are continuing I believe...
Avenger
http://www.avengerenterprises.co.uk/
TAS Forums
http://www.traveller.comstar-games.com/
Com-Star Traveller
http://www.comstar-games.com/traveller/
Timelines 1248 and 993 are continuing I believe...
Thanks for the information and links.
I have been waiting for ever for the Robots book to be available here. Somehow it escaped my attention that it had been published elsewhere
And yes I agree with the people who say there is nothing really wrong with T20. However, I have most of the Traveller books right back to the LBB so I have a wealth of background for T20 to build on. If I had just purchased the T20 book as a stand alone, without having any Traveller knowledge, then I do not think I would be so happy with it.
And yes I agree with the people who say there is nothing really wrong with T20. However, I have most of the Traveller books right back to the LBB so I have a wealth of background for T20 to build on. If I had just purchased the T20 book as a stand alone, without having any Traveller knowledge, then I do not think I would be so happy with it.
I'm new to Traveller, having bought the T20 book. I ended up surfing the web and buying up back catalogue of MegaTraveller and others in PDF form. I'm quite happy - GURPS Traveller Interstellar Wars gave me the era I really want to play.Originally posted by Marvo:
And yes I agree with the people who say there is nothing really wrong with T20. However, I have most of the Traveller books right back to the LBB so I have a wealth of background for T20 to build on. If I had just purchased the T20 book as a stand alone, without having any Traveller knowledge, then I do not think I would be so happy with it.
But that makes it extremely adaptable. It can be used for a Gateway campain (1000 Imp), Classic Traveller Era (1100 Imp), or the New Era (1200+ Imp, it has ship building tables than can be used for any era. As a comparison, the DM's Guide is also short on background material.
I wonder if Hunter would consider making Gateway to Destiny a PDF (at a massive discount) as that provides a ton of background to the Traveller Handbook.
One of the things that one has bear in mind, is that Traveller has always postulated background is always background and that the aim is first to create generic rules that anyone can create any form of space adventure. When they tried moving background to the foreground, the result was MegaTraveller & TNE which were almost hated by all the CT crowd because it crowded up their universe.
T20 goes back to CT in this way by creating a generic universe. IW goes halfway because seasoned vets know the overall direction of Time's Arrow but the devil is in the details. And newbies can experience the joys of Traveller. So hopefully, if there is life in QLI, a Player's Handbook & Referee's Guide will add more background without taking too much away from the generic feel.
So, we await Hunter's decision, but in the short term ask questions here and see about getting Gateway to Destiny from a library or something and take the most important things you need to construct your universe.
One of the things that one has bear in mind, is that Traveller has always postulated background is always background and that the aim is first to create generic rules that anyone can create any form of space adventure. When they tried moving background to the foreground, the result was MegaTraveller & TNE which were almost hated by all the CT crowd because it crowded up their universe.
T20 goes back to CT in this way by creating a generic universe. IW goes halfway because seasoned vets know the overall direction of Time's Arrow but the devil is in the details. And newbies can experience the joys of Traveller. So hopefully, if there is life in QLI, a Player's Handbook & Referee's Guide will add more background without taking too much away from the generic feel.
So, we await Hunter's decision, but in the short term ask questions here and see about getting Gateway to Destiny from a library or something and take the most important things you need to construct your universe.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Gateway to Destiny as a pdf would be a great idea IMHO, and I'd like to see the T20 rulebook as a pdf as well.
I think one good idea is to have a sourcebook for one planet in the Traveller Universe, it should be a frontier planet, and have some human colonists on it. It would be nice if they could flesh out one planet and maybe some notes on the rest of they system, the planet should be interesting and a dangerous place to visit with an alien compedium besides.
Can you explain to me then the systems for computer design (hardware build and software build) as they are explained then how that interacts with ship design? If you could explain how these two systems from the current T20 rulebook work that would be great. I mean, really really great.
Just my 0.02Cr worth.
Having an entire sourcebook for one planet may seem like a good idea, but it's kind of opposite from the whole spirit of the Traveller game. Personally I use sourcebooks from other games (especially GURPS) for this. Movies, books and TV are also great sources.
Another problem as someone pointed out in another post (Trader Jim I think) is that players may not share your view of what makes a planet 'interesting'. When you spend hours working on the detail of a planet it's very disheartening to have the players land, refuel and jump out of system. If the players have their own ship, it's very difficult to try and keep them on one planet. Also, no matter how dangerous a planet might be to a person on the surface, it's not going to be much of a problem for anyone in a starship.
Remember the lines from Aliens:
"Let's dust off and nuke them from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
Hi RickA.
This is something that has been discussed many times in the past. The T20 Computer design and Ship Computer design systems do not really mesh that well.
Try searching for 'starship computer' and you will find about 20 threads. I was going to list them here, but there are to many.
Just my 0.02Cr worth.
Having an entire sourcebook for one planet may seem like a good idea, but it's kind of opposite from the whole spirit of the Traveller game. Personally I use sourcebooks from other games (especially GURPS) for this. Movies, books and TV are also great sources.
Another problem as someone pointed out in another post (Trader Jim I think) is that players may not share your view of what makes a planet 'interesting'. When you spend hours working on the detail of a planet it's very disheartening to have the players land, refuel and jump out of system. If the players have their own ship, it's very difficult to try and keep them on one planet. Also, no matter how dangerous a planet might be to a person on the surface, it's not going to be much of a problem for anyone in a starship.
Remember the lines from Aliens:
"Let's dust off and nuke them from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
"So, when are we going to leave, skipper?"
"As soon as you can convince the maneuver drives to stop pouting and start working, son."
Let them wait for a week or two for new spare parts to arrive (because the bank is going to bust their mortgage if they use used spare parts). Then dangle an irresistible opportunity to earn some money in front of their noses.
I had in mind some scenario where the players are marooned on a primitive planet with a number of intelligent races on it. Remember the Volturnus modules from Star Frontiers. Most of the creatures made up for Star Frontiers lived on that one planet. The players where on a passenger ship that was hijacked by pirates and they had to escape, in an escape pod. This brought the PCs down to the surface of the planet.
