Why do some people want Traveller to fail?

[Klaus]

Once again, I challenge you to produce a single post in which I attacked another poster, except in response to an attack. You've been unable to do so in the past, so I can only conclude that you are (a) intentionally misrepresenting what actually occurred; or (b) simply making stuff up. Which is it?

Considering Mongoose delete the acrimonious threads, that would be difficult, but it wasn't me who got banned from those boards for impugning the intelligence and integrity of the Mongoose staff.

There was a thread here too (that seems to have been deleted) which was full of snarkiness about "fangooses" that was closed when I objected to the obvious group attack.

And what evidence is that, exactly?

Matt Sprange stated the Timing die was ditched because players would focus on the die, not the situation.

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=35297&highlight=timing+die

In any case, I and others stridently criticized those systems. We were assured by fans (like you, I believe, although I could be mistaken) that we were in the distinct minority. Then, when Mongoose changed the mechanics, fans (like you, I believe) then assured us that lots of people criticized the mechanics.

Total bollox. Now who is misrepresenting. I always stated I believed the fiercest critics were in a minority, and I don't remember any other 'vocal supporter' saying otherwise. You are making the last bit up, sir!

At the end of the day, Mongoose agreed that the mechanics needed to be ditched. So when MGT fans try to shout down critics, they might bear this in mind.

It's not criticism I object to. It's criticism loaded with bile at any who disagree or engage with it.

 

[tbeard1999]

Considering Mongoose delete the acrimonious threads, that would be difficult, but it wasn't me who got banned from those boards for impugning the intelligence and integrity of the Mongoose staff.

Since the posts in question are still on the MGT forum (you can search for tbeard1999 and they'll come up), I can only conclude that you either did not bother to verify your statement, or you are trying to obscure the fact that you cannot produce any examples of me attacking another poster, other than in retaliation. <shrug>

It's not criticism I object to. It's criticism loaded with bile at any who disagree or engage with it.

Do you object to bile coming from fans of MGT?

 

[aramis]

The worst thing about MGT in my opinion, is the plethora of arrogant and condescending attitudes coming from certain fans of the system. They have made the debate far more acrimonious than it needs to be IMHO. Worse, by leaping to defend EVERY aspect of the game, they look follish when Mongoose winds up agreeing with the critics. And understandably they get more bitter <cough> Echo <cough> and contentious. Ironically, by trying to shout down reasonable criticisms of the game, they are making it harder for the designer to improve the game.

Personal attack, moderator?

Yes, it is. Rather mild, but still across the line.

Ty: dial it down a bit, please. And no more *cough* references, please.

 

[Supplement Four]

If the poll isn't exactly the same (muddied as you call it) then any comparison is worthless.

Which is why we need a better poll here on CotI.

 

[Klaus]

[EDIT] Deleted as the Mods have spoken, and I do not wish to get into old arguments.

 

[Allensh]

I have posted the poll to RPG.net..and I also posted the same poll to the RPG Site and EN World. Should be interesting to see what comes forth.

I do think the "other/hybrid/etc." question should have been excluded because it doesn't tell us what versions comprise the hybrid...but the poll is what it is.

Allen

 

[Allensh]

My $0.02 -- The MGT chargen system is pretty good, although I contend it yields too many skills. This is easy to fix. I am also concerned that the "dangerous" careers have survival rolls that are too high. Again, an easy fix.

The MGT starship design system is a nice replacement for Book 2, although I'd like to be able to make larger ships. Not at all impressed with either the combat system or the starship combat system. MGT's trade and economic systems are just as broke as any other version of Traveller, so I can't see much benefit in using them.

High Guard comes out in a few weeks..that will take care of the larger ships.

Allen

 

[far-trader]

I have posted the poll to RPG.net..and I also posted the same poll to the RPG Site and EN World...

Links would be nice to see how it comes out.

 

[Allensh]

Links would be nice to see how it comes out.

The RPG Site version:

http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=11434

RPG.net version:

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=408256

EN World version:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?t=238056

Allen

 

[far-trader]

Thank you very much Allen

Be interesting to watch. I won't vote in the others as I only infrequently frequent the sites. Besides I already messed up the poll on CotI by only voting for one choice, and that being hybrid

I have a feeling (barring contamination from folks flocking from here just to vote) that they will show heavily for Mongoose since that's the freshest version and the other sites have fewer grognards than CotI does.

 

[Supplement Four]

I have posted the poll to RPG.net..and I also posted the same poll to the RPG Site and EN World. Should be interesting to see what comes forth.

I do think the "other/hybrid/etc." question should have been excluded because it doesn't tell us what versions comprise the hybrid...but the poll is what it is.

Allen

A link would be nice.o:

EDIT: Ooops. I see you did post a link after later in the thread.

Just FYI, I won't vote in those polls, either (like Far Trader). I'm not registered there. I just wanted to watch.

 

[far-trader]

Just FYI, I won't vote in those polls, either (like Far Trader). I'm not registered there. I just wanted to watch.

I'm registered*, at least on two of them, but it's been ages since I posted (if ever), I might not even remember my logins there

* on more forums than I can remember on a good day, and bookmarks and logins have been lost or forgotten to many of them

 

[Supplement Four]

Just looked at the poles. They've got the "Hybrid" option. That muddies the waters. Those poles aren't going to tell us anything.

Should have just stuck to the single choice official editions as I advised. That way, those playing a hybrid would have to pick their favored edition.

With that choice in there, the results will be horribly skewed. Because most hybrids are based on a single game with add-ons from other editions, what we need to know is what they are using for their base system.

The poll, like Aramis', is pretty useless as-is.



EDIT: Just to give you an example of what I'm talking about, let's say the Hybrid option takes in a significant number of votes. And, let's say 60% of those votes would pick THero as their main system of choice (adding to it with other editions).

Now, all those extra votes for THero would really bring that edition up with the big boys, huh?

With the polls as-is, we'll never know.

 

[far-trader]

For another take on it I don't think having hybrid will render the poll useless. It's always about interpretation anyway. In this case the "feeling" of what system the player is using. Besides it's likely to be such a small sampling as to be statistically insignificant. We'll only get a broad idea of the general usage but it should still be interesting. Just as long as somebody doesn't try to use the results to say "THERE! I told you so! Version X is the best/worst! Numbers don't lie."

 

[Allensh]

For another take on it I don't think having hybrid will render the poll useless. It's always about interpretation anyway. In this case the "feeling" of what system the player is using. Besides it's likely to be such a small sampling as to be statistically insignificant. We'll only get a broad idea of the general usage but it should still be interesting. Just as long as somebody doesn't try to use the results to say "THERE! I told you so! Version X is the best/worst! Numbers don't lie."

I really don't think all the results from all the polls combined will tell us much of anything other than what the people who answered the poll like, espcially since people can vote in all of them if they want...but it will at least provide a small clue. Maybe if say, 2000 people vote we might get a small glimmer.

I don't like the hybrid choice either...but I guess we can always do a second poll to try to find what those hybrids are made of.

Allen

 

[Allensh]

Just as long as somebody doesn't try to use the results to say "THERE! I told you so! Version X is the best/worst! Numbers don't lie."

I actually can't recall ever stating that MGT is "the best"...others may have. It is the currently published version and the one I like the best...but "the best" is so subjective as to be essentially meaningless.

Allen

 

[far-trader]

I actually can't recall ever stating that MGT is "the best"...others may have. It is the currently published version and the one I like the best...but "the best" is so subjective as to be essentially meaningless.

Allen

Wasn't pointing fingers here. Just saying some might be so inclined...

...as for currently published, you're forgetting a few other rule sets are also currently published.

 

[Allensh]

Wasn't pointing fingers here. Just saying some might be so inclined...

...as for currently published, you're forgetting a few other rule sets are also currently published.

Sorry should have been more specific...

Mongoose Traveller is the only currently published version of Traveller that is not either a reprint of an earlier edition or a port of Traveller to a different game system. MGT shares with the earlier versions the fact that its system was purpose-built for Traveller..GT, T20 and Hero are mainly the Traveller background in different systems.

I also don't count PDFs in this since those are basically "reprints" except they aren't really printed.

Allen

 

[CosmicGamer]

I have posted the poll to RPG.net..and I also posted the same poll to the RPG Site and EN World. Should be interesting to see what comes forth.

I do think the "other/hybrid/etc." question should have been excluded because it doesn't tell us what versions comprise the hybrid...but the poll is what it is.

Allen

How about polling at the mongoose site too?

 

[Allensh]

How about polling at the mongoose site too?

I figured that might skew the results a bit as they are company owned boards (but then so are these...) but I could do so.

Allen