Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
I think I got away with it.
Women gamers
- Thread starter kafka47
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Greetings and salutations,
I just started reading this topic and since it is not limited to Traveller, there are currently 3-5 females in The Gathering's gaming sessions (Gamma World, Star Wars, D&D, Cyberpunk, & Star Trek CCG). There was no forcing them into the group or the games. It was a simple, "We are playing this tonight (or at the Gathering), would you like to play?" We have not had a "no" yet. Our games run a wide gambit from mystery, drama, "He/she/it is not one of us. KILL IT!", and "we're here to blow sh:t up!" And the women are right in there with the guys.
We have a good group. What makes us successful:
- We all get along
- some are dating others
- a couple are married to others
- socializing before the actual game begins
- all of us being in it for the fun
I just started reading this topic and since it is not limited to Traveller, there are currently 3-5 females in The Gathering's gaming sessions (Gamma World, Star Wars, D&D, Cyberpunk, & Star Trek CCG). There was no forcing them into the group or the games. It was a simple, "We are playing this tonight (or at the Gathering), would you like to play?" We have not had a "no" yet. Our games run a wide gambit from mystery, drama, "He/she/it is not one of us. KILL IT!", and "we're here to blow sh:t up!" And the women are right in there with the guys.
We have a good group. What makes us successful:
- We all get along
- some are dating others
- a couple are married to others
- socializing before the actual game begins
- all of us being in it for the fun
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
I'm assuming these are mutually eclusive?
This is a relevant topic for me, as I'm trying to convince my wife about a Traveller campaign I'd like to run. She's quite iffy about it at the moment.
To give you some background, she's been playing since 1990 (and got started in an all-female group too!). She's played a number of systems with a number of styles of play. While she's heavily into characterization, she doesn't shy away from what the GNS folks would call 'gamist' or 'simulationist' aspects. While she's more of a fantasy fan, she likes SF: Trek, Firefly, B5, the new Galactica...
The problem? She cannot stand the idea of playing in Traveller game. If it were anyone else besides me bringing up the idea, she'd veto it in a heartbeat (players vote on upcoming campaigns in my group).
She's narrowed it down for me to two main reasons, one I've seen mentioned previously, one I havent. First, the gearhead aspect. While she doesn't equipment lists and the idea of drooling over nice gear (she's a former bench tech), she could care less about "obsessions over design systems" (her words). Ditto for the hardcore world/system design stuff and discussions of it.
The second reason is one I've heard from others too: the weight of the history and background (and the dreaded word 'canon'). There's a feeling that unless you're an old Traveller grognard, there's no way to get caught up to speed with all the material. There's also a widespread fear of doing it 'wrong': there's more than a few horror stories from groups that tried it out only to have to deal with the rabid hardcore fan. Too often that fan is the GM...
I'm not quite sure what the answer is. Keeping things focused on smaller levels might help...but if you're doing that, why go with Traveller over something else? I'm really not sure.
To give you some background, she's been playing since 1990 (and got started in an all-female group too!). She's played a number of systems with a number of styles of play. While she's heavily into characterization, she doesn't shy away from what the GNS folks would call 'gamist' or 'simulationist' aspects. While she's more of a fantasy fan, she likes SF: Trek, Firefly, B5, the new Galactica...
The problem? She cannot stand the idea of playing in Traveller game. If it were anyone else besides me bringing up the idea, she'd veto it in a heartbeat (players vote on upcoming campaigns in my group).
She's narrowed it down for me to two main reasons, one I've seen mentioned previously, one I havent. First, the gearhead aspect. While she doesn't equipment lists and the idea of drooling over nice gear (she's a former bench tech), she could care less about "obsessions over design systems" (her words). Ditto for the hardcore world/system design stuff and discussions of it.
The second reason is one I've heard from others too: the weight of the history and background (and the dreaded word 'canon'). There's a feeling that unless you're an old Traveller grognard, there's no way to get caught up to speed with all the material. There's also a widespread fear of doing it 'wrong': there's more than a few horror stories from groups that tried it out only to have to deal with the rabid hardcore fan. Too often that fan is the GM...
I'm not quite sure what the answer is. Keeping things focused on smaller levels might help...but if you're doing that, why go with Traveller over something else? I'm really not sure.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Canon is a double edged sword, it's easy to fall back on 
Use only what you need for your game and ignore the rest. Introduce whatever elements you want to further down the line.
The gearhead bit needn't interfere with play at all - tech is just there as is needed for the scenario at hand.
I think you are spot on to keep things small and focused on the group, and build from there.
Use only what you need for your game and ignore the rest. Introduce whatever elements you want to further down the line.
The gearhead bit needn't interfere with play at all - tech is just there as is needed for the scenario at hand.
I think you are spot on to keep things small and focused on the group, and build from there.
Print out the adventure that is currently going on the board or some of the fiction that is being written.
Most of that would point out even the most dedicated do not give a hoot what canon says or doesn't say rather it gives us the parameters for a discussion to take place. As for gearheadedness, I do not play my games with gearheadedness, logical - yes, but rather one can always use Traveller to fly by the seat of ones pants.
Another solution is play Firefly RPG, just using Traveller rules after the next jump just substitute Alliance for Imperium and slowly reel her in (and hope that she does not read this board).
Most of that would point out even the most dedicated do not give a hoot what canon says or doesn't say rather it gives us the parameters for a discussion to take place. As for gearheadedness, I do not play my games with gearheadedness, logical - yes, but rather one can always use Traveller to fly by the seat of ones pants.
Another solution is play Firefly RPG, just using Traveller rules after the next jump just substitute Alliance for Imperium and slowly reel her in (and hope that she does not read this board).
in normal play most canon is unreachable except as dim background material. start at the level of the individual and work your way up.
the big pitch for traveller is its realism. no force, no star trek wonderwidgets, no master races, no neospiritual cybertech. the characters are relatively ordinary and the tech is comprehensible to a modern human (maybe it shouldn't be but this is a game so too bad). it's an excellent environment for roleplaying.
I absolutely realize that. I even know a few vulgar words that are used to refer to male players who play female toons. </font>[/QUOTE]I think you're being unfair. Afterall, if I had World of Warcraft I would play as a Night Elf chick, just to screw with everyone's minds. And yes, because... they're very, very nice-looking... toons.
According to my friend, you actually can be a cyber-prostitute in that game. I find that to be REALLY hilarious.
Alright, to be serious and on-topic, I have a hard time accepting MMORPGS as a legitimate form of RPing. Granted it's fun, so I hear... but to me, RPing involves the imagination and collaborating in creating the world, not level-hunting and dungeon-crawling. Let's face it, CRPGs just don't 'cut it'. Though if anyone has a rebuttal, I'd be eager to consider it.
Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
"The second reason is one I've heard from others too: the weight of the history and background (and the dreaded word 'canon'). There's a feeling that unless you're an old Traveller grognard, there's no way to get caught up to speed with all the material."
The solution I usually suggest when people bring this up is to play characters who don't know or care about the wider background. Maybe they're from a low-tech world without much interstellar contact.
The solution I usually suggest when people bring this up is to play characters who don't know or care about the wider background. Maybe they're from a low-tech world without much interstellar contact.
I couldn't care less about design systems, to be honest. As for world/system design, again, those are part of the rules I don't bother with.
Ah. As GM, I don't bother with the Traveller 'canon'. In fact I've laboured hard to make up my own setting. I seem to have attracted one female to the game who knows nothing about role-playing, and a second female who is the same, and was shown the setting and game details by her boyfriend, a friend of mine.
But I know EXACTLY where she's coming from. My experience among the scifi/fantasy fraternity is that the rabid GEEKS manage to make any setting or story or franchise un-fun by being stuck up about the little details.
Answer this honestly: what is the problem? Don't you get a thrill to take the rules and just go with it in a different direction?
An example: say you want to play in the SW universe, but none of your players want to be Jedi. Or in fact, want anything to do with the Force. What do you do, throw in the towel and call it quits? Hell no. What's a GM without players? A lonely GM, that's what.
If she wants to play, tell her that she doesn't have to worry about design sequences OR the Traveller canon.
Since my husband brought me up in this I had to post. (MW Turnage) Yes those are my two main reasons for not play. This said I dont have a problem with trying the system for a firefly game. That idea has been brought up before and I think it maybe a good one.
Travler I know has a very long and detailed background. I personal I dont have the time to try and get caught up, and when I have asked questions in the past I get detailed histroy lessons for questions I didnt ask or dont understand the answers to the ones I have. I respect having a passion for the game of choice I can get the same way about my own. But it does make it hard for at least me to get into it. I think most women have trouble at first when dealing with the scope of history for games that have been going on for years. When faced with GM and other players far more up to date, it is easier to "stick with what you know". Though this could just be what I have noticed but I have played with alot of female players, and shockingly enough I am one.
Just my two cents . Thanks
Travler I know has a very long and detailed background. I personal I dont have the time to try and get caught up, and when I have asked questions in the past I get detailed histroy lessons for questions I didnt ask or dont understand the answers to the ones I have. I respect having a passion for the game of choice I can get the same way about my own. But it does make it hard for at least me to get into it. I think most women have trouble at first when dealing with the scope of history for games that have been going on for years. When faced with GM and other players far more up to date, it is easier to "stick with what you know". Though this could just be what I have noticed but I have played with alot of female players, and shockingly enough I am one.
Just my two cents . Thanks
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Welcome aboard Alimira
As I posted earlier, just ignore the weight of Traveller canon and play from game to game.
Add detail and history only when relevant to your characters, and from whatever source you like best.
The most important thing is to enjoy the game and have fun
As I posted earlier, just ignore the weight of Traveller canon and play from game to game.
Add detail and history only when relevant to your characters, and from whatever source you like best.
The most important thing is to enjoy the game and have fun
Madarin Dude
SOC-13
Almira don't worry about not knowing everything . Provided that the other players are cool it will be a great experience. the first games are always more enjoyable because you don't know everythng and it gets your imagination working more. there is a sense of wonder attached with being a new gamer.
Not everyone is experienced some must have to go with raw ability. Think of Luke in the first Star Wars film. He did not know anything about the Jedi or the empire but he went with raw ability. Make that part of your character.
Knwo yoru character you will be fine prvided the GM is not a toatal dirtbag.
Not everyone is experienced some must have to go with raw ability. Think of Luke in the first Star Wars film. He did not know anything about the Jedi or the empire but he went with raw ability. Make that part of your character.
Knwo yoru character you will be fine prvided the GM is not a toatal dirtbag.
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Welcome, Alimira! Our little Traveller group in college thought our referee was making it up as he went along, as little bits and pieces of the uiverse came to light. He was just playing the published adventures! (He and his brother had created their own incredible fantasy realm, though, so we had a reason to be snookered!)
stofsk, Turnage, the key to dealing with geeks is to insist that if they want to do something ... unusual ... they speak to you privately, so you can straighten out the "gears" beforehand. Tell everybody to take a break, and have a quick workout of the mechanics/history/canon/whatever. Then, when expectations are set, come back and pick up play. Oh, and tell 'em it's MTU!
Our little Traveller group in college thought our referee was making it up as he went along, as little bits and pieces of the uiverse came to light. He was just playing the published adventures! (He and his brother had created their own incredible fantasy realm, though, so we had a reason to be snookered!)stofsk, Turnage, the key to dealing with geeks is to insist that if they want to do something ... unusual ... they speak to you privately, so you can straighten out the "gears" beforehand. Tell everybody to take a break, and have a quick workout of the mechanics/history/canon/whatever. Then, when expectations are set, come back and pick up play. Oh, and tell 'em it's MTU!
When I started dating my wife, I was playing D&D three nights a week. We had our wedding reception at a Sci-Fi convention, and during all that time, she only played D&D with me one time. "I'm just not interested." She said.
When I let on that I wanted to run a Traveller campaign, and would she please give it a try, she agreed. It is now the only rpg the women will play!
I folded my campaign 20yrs ago, and have just recently gathered enough material to start anew.
Now, that she knows I'm going to start again, she's made known that SHE will be the first player in the new campaign.(And I still can't get her to watch a sci-fi show on tv! Whats up with that?)
Chuck
When I let on that I wanted to run a Traveller campaign, and would she please give it a try, she agreed. It is now the only rpg the women will play!
I folded my campaign 20yrs ago, and have just recently gathered enough material to start anew.
Now, that she knows I'm going to start again, she's made known that SHE will be the first player in the new campaign.(And I still can't get her to watch a sci-fi show on tv! Whats up with that?)
Chuck
Madarin Dude
SOC-13
I did meet a few girls who played traveller back when it was the new game with the LBB's. I think one hting that htey like it that most of the things are accessible hand computers and rifles etc are all things we know add a starship and there you go.
Interestingly, enough the only potential player in the game that I was going to run at the Canadian National Game Expo was 17-19 yr old young woman. But, she was afraid of not attracting more players by sitting at the Traveller table that night, so she opted for D&D instead.
She asked that if I would bring the game the next day. I said it depended upon, whether she knew anyone else that would be interested in playing as the scenario was designed for 4-12 people (and there was no way in luring the D&D people in).
She replied, "No.", she did not know anyone else interested; so there was no game the next day either.
So, at least, in the Toronto area, one can conclude that Traveller/role playing is becoming more and more a solitary venture.
A side note:
Traveller, also to do much more in terms of brand recognition. When I was setup, I had my T20 screen all set up and nobody recognized the game system. And, as I indicated vendors on the floor recognized Traveller, as an "old game" (meaning one that nobody really asks for). Vampire & D+D were the hot selling games. That speaks to me about the visual appeal of Traveller products...it simply is not there.
Not sure what it will take but it has to something to make it slick and appealing enough for someone to want to play.
Next time, I will try to order a banner from Marc or something...
She asked that if I would bring the game the next day. I said it depended upon, whether she knew anyone else that would be interested in playing as the scenario was designed for 4-12 people (and there was no way in luring the D&D people in).
She replied, "No.", she did not know anyone else interested; so there was no game the next day either.
So, at least, in the Toronto area, one can conclude that Traveller/role playing is becoming more and more a solitary venture.
A side note:
Traveller, also to do much more in terms of brand recognition. When I was setup, I had my T20 screen all set up and nobody recognized the game system. And, as I indicated vendors on the floor recognized Traveller, as an "old game" (meaning one that nobody really asks for). Vampire & D+D were the hot selling games. That speaks to me about the visual appeal of Traveller products...it simply is not there.
Not sure what it will take but it has to something to make it slick and appealing enough for someone to want to play.
Next time, I will try to order a banner from Marc or something...
Just sitting a table chatting with a Ref, one to one rather than actually having a lively crowd of gamers...I think says it all.
And, especially, when we would be the only two knowing some semblance of the rules. And, sadly, that potential player was not Erica Durance.
And, especially, when we would be the only two knowing some semblance of the rules. And, sadly, that potential player was not Erica Durance.
Sounds more fun than role-playing.
Woah, you got her name? Did you get her number? Canadian chicks are hot.
As for T20, it IS a d20 game, which means even if players don't know the rules specifically, if they play D&D they ought to be able to learn quickly. And honestly though, I think the graphic representation of Traveller is pretty good. I suppose it's a marketing challenge to get brand recognition.
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