Bureaucracies being what they are, would the jump 4 route be replaced? Or just tied into a more direct jump 6 route?
X-Boat Launch Stations
- Thread starter Patron Zero
- Start date
Indeed; the "old" J-4 system could be repurposed into a secondary distribution network for the "new" J-6 system at points where they intersect, with the most recent information even flowing "backwards" now down J-4 routes that were once mains but are now spurs.
There might be some interesting local politics to explore in which worlds that used to get the news first and then pass it down the line have to adjust to getting the freshest news from a formerly downstream system that is now a week ahead on breaking news and information.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
For a jump 6 network you need jump 3 for the secondary network.
That may or may not be true. I can't quite figure out the implications of the astrography. If you have to distribute to secondary destinations off the trunk lines, wouldn't you often need an extra parsec to reach the off-the-path places? But if you already have a J4 system in place, I think that would have a tremendous advantage over a J3 system, whatever their individual merits.
There's also the possibility of using dedicated couriers for secondary distribution. The scouts already use that to reach places off the X-boat network.
Hans
If a world is powerful enough politically to be able to make waves, it's almost certainly powerful enough to rate an X-boat connection in its own right, so it would still be included in the net.
The venerable jump 4 x-network is so inefficient that IMO there no other explanation for it than that nobody with any clout really cares about how inefficient it is. Hence my explanation that ever since the X-boats were superceded by IN couriers as the primary carrier of Imperial governmental despatches, the X-boats have been nothing but a huge boondoggle.
(Of course, in accordance with the Imperial edict that established the X-boats, the original copy of all reports and orders are sent by X-boat. It's just that nowadays the copies that are sent by navy courier arrive weeks and months in advance of the originals1.)
1 Or rather, "copies" and "originals".
Hans
I was under the impression that the routes were set up such that every world was within a j-2 of an x-boat stop. this would allow type S couriers to make the last leg. The x-boat stops were mostly at the most important worlds that allowed for the j-2 conditions.
I never thought it was about moving messages at the fastest speed possible.
of course, canonically, the j-6 x-boats with drop tanks and new routes in the Regina area that were completed in 1115 move faster.
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looking at an old map of the marches, it appears that not every world is within j-2 of an x-boat station, however every world can be reached within a couple of j-2 jumps from an xboat station
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mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
The routes were set up so the economic powerhouses and the politically savvy worlds were connected to the network - or at least that's what should have happened.
In reality the folks at GDW just drew lines on a chart and didn't even look at what they had joined up.
In reality the folks at GDW just drew lines on a chart and didn't even look at what they had joined up.
In reality, they rolled UWP and rolled the likelyhood of Xboat on another chart. If you have a class E starport, you wont have a Xboat link even if you are the most populated world in the sector (Rethe, 33 billion is without Xboat link)
Many X-link are J2: Regina-Extolay or even J1: Regina-Jengh. As such they are probably handled by S courrier with a model A J-drive as the B J-drive of the Xboat would be a waste of money there.
The possibility of a Xboat with A jump drive and a large cargo/passenger courrier's space could be entertained IYTU even if never stated in OTU
As to the J-3, the model B J-drive goes from J2 for 200 tonners straight to J-4 for 100 tonners, so unless you design a J-3 model (see above), the "basic" Xboat with jump governor will do in the OTU
For the rest, we simply try to rationalize an OTU floating on a see of dices.
Remember when after the cold war redundant bases were to be shut-down? Every local politician brandished a protest sign with the number of lost jobs in his riding. Lets not dwell on RW politic, of course. Just figure what the reaction would be at consolidating/repositionning the assets of the "old" Xboat network! :CoW: Cheaper in political capital to graft the new to the old.
Since the money is yours and the political capital is mine, are you surprised that Lord Rethe would increase his political capital by siding with those in the Moat that would waste your money to save their pork barrel.?
Beside, all those with the clout to set-up/use a private/commercial "Super-J" have no interest in democratisation of informations or having the TI competing with them.
(I know, because Lord Rethe run two private J-5 courrier services: one to Regina and one to Rysek(Rhylanor)+J-2 to Calephena(Rhylanor) so to have at least one week lead on the public commercial services from Regina and 2 weeks on stuff from core)
have fun
Selandia
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Oh I know how they did it. 
They used the trade routes table from LBB3 77 edition to generate the routes.
They then designated them as x-boat routes without ever thinking about the logic behind their setting.
In setting - a jump 4 network will be established to speed communication
Now add that the rules revision made the ship design they produced to make the network viable broken and you can see that the setting was an afterthought.
They used the trade routes table from LBB3 77 edition to generate the routes.
They then designated them as x-boat routes without ever thinking about the logic behind their setting.
In setting - a jump 4 network will be established to speed communication
Now add that the rules revision made the ship design they produced to make the network viable broken and you can see that the setting was an afterthought.
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Patron Zero
SOC-13
I would tend to believe that powerful factions and like individuals outside the Imperial Court-government would operate it's own courier services to increase efficiency-expediency and maintain 'secrecy' and confidentiality concerning said communiques.
Mind private-inhouse networks not as broad or expansive as the Imperial Network but very likely operating faster ships and more direct routes.
Mind private-inhouse networks not as broad or expansive as the Imperial Network but very likely operating faster ships and more direct routes.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
The first mover advantages in stock markets and business alone would pay for such a system many times over.
Which is why no one who can afford to would fail to fund a courier network of his own suitable to his needs. And there are a LOT of people who can afford to fund courier networks of more limited scope than Imperium-wide.
This is, of course, assuming the absence of J5 and J6 passenger liners between adjacent subsector capitals, an assumption I am most reluctant to make. If such liners exist, news will be carried along with passengers at a speed that will make it unlikely that private couriers will provide a consistent advantage.
Hans
I knew you knew
, no offense intended, just a rethorical introduction to the statement that we are floating rationals over a sea of dices whose referential "real world" is often a collection of Charts & Tables that sometime predate the thinking behind the OTU (as you rightly describe it).Have fun
Selandia
The problem there begins with the fact that the most populated world in the sector ought to have a better starport than a Class E. Random UWP generation is a great way to spark the imagination, but unvetted UWPs are an abomination.
The people at GDW did a lot of good stuff, but they pulled some Grade A boners too. These are the same people that had Al Morai employ J4 ships on J1 routes.
Another manifestation of the 'the rules define the setting' fallacy. Logically there would be a hull size between 100 and 200 where a model B J-drive would produce a J3 capability (Or a model A+ J-drive that gave J3 to 100 tonners). But in order to keep the ship design rules simple, these options are not available to game players. But they would be available "in reality".
Those bases represented a significant contribution to the local economies, though. To a major world an X-boat station would represent petty cash (The claim that an X-boat link will enhance interstellar trade is... um... questionable). And, to repeat, a world important enough to have enough clout to affect decision-making at Scout HQ would rate an X-boat link in its own right. Close down the J4 link and it would get one of the new J6 links instead.
I'm surprised that they would care about such a very small pork barrel. :devil:
Unless they could make money out of it. A sector-wide press service would want their news as hot as possible and would cooperate with news services in other sectors. If a fraction of the population of a sector paid a credit each every day to get their foreign news, we'd be talking about trillions of credits.
A population of 26 billion people would have enough billionaires going back and forth between Regina and Rethe to support a J5 passenger liner service. Quite likely a daily service, though I haven't run the numbers, so I'm not sure about that.
News from the core going directly to Rethe probably would beat the commercial routes, since they would presumably detour through Mora, Rhylanor, and Regina.
Hans
To me, to savings of customizing x-boats to handle the shorter routes does not save enough to justify losing the flexibility of being able to switch out elements.
The IN would use Fleet Couriers in a covert network for high priority traffic, but even this is a much smaller capability. It is, IMTU, a "push system," and weekly. As such, for lower priority traffic, the xboat network may get it there sooner over short runs.
The X-boat network is the internet of the 3I. To the extent that timely information and communications support commerce, being on the X-boat link is going to commercially benefit a system.
An aspect of the x-boat network that is not clear to me from canon is how often boats go. Clearly, the coreward boat goes after the coreward boat arrives. The arriving boat then turns around, for the run back. Another boat may be ahead of it for this spinward return leg. This may be in 24 hours; a related question is when does the next coreward boat arrive from that same route: 24 hours, 12, 48, or more? My feeling, and IMTU, this will vary with the amount of traffic, and can be from 6 to 48 hours. Thus IMTU, an X-boat message between two adjoining worlds on the network will take, at most, 48 hours, plus the week in jump, plus transmission time on either end, and the average delay on the sparsest runs will be 24 hours, and on the thickest 3 hours.
The IN would use Fleet Couriers in a covert network for high priority traffic, but even this is a much smaller capability. It is, IMTU, a "push system," and weekly. As such, for lower priority traffic, the xboat network may get it there sooner over short runs.
The X-boat network is the internet of the 3I. To the extent that timely information and communications support commerce, being on the X-boat link is going to commercially benefit a system.
An aspect of the x-boat network that is not clear to me from canon is how often boats go. Clearly, the coreward boat goes after the coreward boat arrives. The arriving boat then turns around, for the run back. Another boat may be ahead of it for this spinward return leg. This may be in 24 hours; a related question is when does the next coreward boat arrive from that same route: 24 hours, 12, 48, or more? My feeling, and IMTU, this will vary with the amount of traffic, and can be from 6 to 48 hours. Thus IMTU, an X-boat message between two adjoining worlds on the network will take, at most, 48 hours, plus the week in jump, plus transmission time on either end, and the average delay on the sparsest runs will be 24 hours, and on the thickest 3 hours.
Perhaps not, but that would make a efficiently run organization very reluctant to have one- and two-parsec links.
Depends on how many couriers the IN anticipate a need for in war. However many that would be would need to be employed in peacetime, and what better way than to take messages between navy facilities?
What commercial advantage would an X-boat link provide that frequent passenger liners don't?
Hans
Patron Zero
SOC-13
I'm seeing X-boats actually transporting high-priority passengers like say an officer of the Imperial Court or some such person-persons, either for keeping said party's 'itinerary' off the radar or said person's arrival at a 'hot-spot' quiet.
Simply saying that fewer persons who know that 'mister-X' is on the move to lop off a few heads (figurative not literal) or deliver some highly sensitive documents with the least chance of loose-lips-sinking-ships, bundling them on an X-boat would be most efficient and effective means.
I think that's what the Imperiallines system is for. Alternatively, navy couriers if the official isn't going to inspect Navy stuff.
Hans
Patron Zero
SOC-13
I should also have said that small-scale covert operations might 'bunk' on an X-boat, either insertion of an operative or extraction of high-priority assets.
With the number of express boats in operation I'm certain that more than a few are 'flying' dummy registration numbers and carry little if any post-parcels.
Thank you for providing your own answer
We have to create explanations for something that makes no sense in the starting blocks. As often stated, mine is The Trade Cartel that tries to choke any star trade they do not control through their private spaceport. Fine, and who is (not are, is) the "community"? Many centuries ago, when the TI infrastructure was created the local noble made sure his fief would include the lands around the Starport & Bases, benefiting as much as possible of the economic opportunity created by Imperial money. What is petty cash for a major world is a fortune to a specific "individualized community". 0.001 Cr from each of a a Billion persons is 1Mcr.
Lord Rethe is not very interested in the news that News Services sell to his peones for 1Cr a day. What matter to him is what the News Service do not know as well as information that concern timely governance of his estate.
See above.
The Cartel that was manipulating the former Lord Rethe would carry only their associates in their private service. The former Lord kept the starport at a disfunctionnal E to prevent efficient service to be offered to the General Public by those (ZEN Shipping) that want to make money by selling access to information rather than restricting it (the Cartel) for global business purpose. Lord Rethe do not trust the Cartel and have his private service for him and his supportesr.
As to the info from Core, you are right, there is likely an independant "fast track". Once they reach Calephenas or Rysek, they get picked-up by the Count's sprinters
have fun
Selandia
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