X-Boat Stations

[Ref00000]

since we're dealing with cans of assorted worms, what about the old saw that a ship must have a Live Sophont piloting to enter Jump Space, at all.
keeping the need for 'a living brain' in some fashion controlling the flight is not such a bad idea.
yeah, your torps could have monkey brains. or maybe dogs.
for a lovely twist, I'll remind the reader of a story who's author eludes me, called "Deadman Switch". essentially, it's a universe where it was accidentally discovered that Jump drives work only if a human corpse is at the controls. something makes it happen. but I've always assumed looking at J-Space in that Universe causes major sanity loss.

 

[Ref00000]

Ranke,
thank you, btw, for your massive contributions to the game and this board.
If I could get to Denmark, I'd buy you a couple pints of mead.
If you ever get to Portland, take me up on that offer.

to business.

Do you have a 'revised X-boat system' Map, anywhere?
is this data planned for inclusion on the Traveller Map in any way?

 

[SanDragon]

Get the pitchforks!!!:rofl:

And torches!

 

[Patron Zero]

Torches and pitchforks might be survivable, it's the threat of tar and feathering that gets me worried.

Living-brain compartments in message torpedoes, now this is getting a little bit too much like a Bruce Campbell-Jeffery Combs movie for my tastes !

-And all due applause for Rancke, really well done sir !

 

[JimMarn]

since we're dealing with cans of assorted worms, what about the old saw that a ship must have a Live Sophont piloting to enter Jump Space, at all.
keeping the need for 'a living brain' in some fashion controlling the flight is not such a bad idea.
yeah, your torps could have monkey brains. or maybe dogs.
for a lovely twist, I'll remind the reader of a story who's author eludes me, called "Deadman Switch". essentially, it's a universe where it was accidentally discovered that Jump drives work only if a human corpse is at the controls. something makes it happen. but I've always assumed looking at J-Space in that Universe causes major sanity loss.

Interesting, as there is an sf author who has written stories where a Sensitive works mentally with the FTL/hyperspace computer. No Sensitive, no FTL speeds are possible.

In one short story a Sensitive on a frontier world is trying to stop an attack but is overwhelmed. So she tosses some of the missles, via hyperspace, etc, back at a solar system with several Sensitives on it. They come to her rescue.

And such a thing could be fitted into canon, it would explain one reason why the Empire doesn't like Psions. The ability to toss missles at an Empire planet via Jump space would make any Empire world a bit nervous.

 

[Carlobrand]

... My own take is that jump torpedoes are possible, but they are big (basically the size of a jump drive capable of generating a 100dT jump field) and hence expensive. Jump torpedoes have a 1 in 36 chance of disappearing when used, which makes them useful for distress calls (a 35/36 chance of survival being a considerable improvement over no chance at all) but makes them more expensive than X-boats for regular use in an X-torp network. ...

So: 1 dT power plant, 2 dT jump drive, 1 dT computer Model/1, 11 dT fuel, minimum 20 dT bridge? Maybe a bot in the driver's seat. Jump field cables from that Supplement-9 jump tug thingie, designed to expand around the construct to make a 100 dT volume. 35 dT minimum volume? Less if we can find some excuse to eliminate the bridge - which also might explain why they don't always make it.

...-And all due applause for Rancke, really well done sir !

Yeah, that was nice work!

 

[mike wightman]

Partial excerpt from xboat station entry in LBB S11 Library Data (N-Z) as posted at WikiTravellerRPG.com

'X-boat Station: Facility for handling x-boats at a star system. At each system served by the x-boat network, an express boat station is maintained to handle the message traffic and to manage incoming and outgoing x-boats.

The xboat station contains receiving and retransmission equipment; refueling and support facilities for the local staff and waiting crew are also provided.'

That reads pretty clear for the definition and purpose of an X-boat station, what's not specified in any particular detail is size-class of said facility.

Has there been any 'canon' materials concerning X-boat stations and if so have any such complexes ever been presented with deckplans or schematics ?

I can now report that there is canon material for the x-boat station. The new MgT supplement Space Stations details one - 10.000t and it has deck plans

 

[Vladika]

find some excuse to eliminate the bridge - which also might explain why they don't always make it.

Why not since a small craft requires either a bridge OR a computer. Since this thing is not doing any real navigating, just a one way, one shot, go for it. The jump net is a stretch (pun intended) anyway.

 

[BlackBat242]

Interesting, as there is an sf author who has written stories where a Sensitive works mentally with the FTL/hyperspace computer. No Sensitive, no FTL speeds are possible.

In one short story a Sensitive on a frontier world is trying to stop an attack but is overwhelmed. So she tosses some of the missles, via hyperspace, etc, back at a solar system with several Sensitives on it. They come to her rescue.

And such a thing could be fitted into canon, it would explain one reason why the Empire doesn't like Psions. The ability to toss missles at an Empire planet via Jump space would make any Empire world a bit nervous.

That story can be found in The Lady in the Tower by Anne McCaffery, which is part of a much larger set of stories and novels:

The Internet Speculative Fiction Database catalogues "The Talents Universe" in two subseries.

Talents

To Ride Pegasus (1973) ISBN 0-345-33603-8 —collection of stories from 1969 and 1973*
Pegasus in Flight (1990) ISBN 0-345-36897-5
Pegasus in Space (2000) ISBN 0-345-43467-6

Tower and Hive

"The Lady in the Tower", The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction, Apr 1959
"A Meeting of Minds", The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction, Jan 1969

The Rowan (1990) ISBN 0-441-73576-2 —partly based on the 1959 "Lady"
Damia (1991) ISBN 0-441-13556-0 —partly based on the 1969 "Meeting"
Damia's Children (1993) ISBN 0-441-00007-X
Lyon's Pride (1994) ISBN 0-441-00141-6
The Tower and the Hive (1999) ISBN 0-441-00720-1


* "To Ride Pegasus", original to the collection (Aug 1973)
"A Womanly Talent", Analog, Feb 1969
"Apple", Crime Prevention in the 30th Century, ed. Hans Stefan Santesson, Walker & Co., 1969
"A Bridle for Pegasus", Analog, Jul 1973

While this is from Wiki, it does a good job describing the first book (story collection) of the connected series.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Ride_Pegasus

 

[rancke]

So: 1 dT power plant, 2 dT jump drive, 1 dT computer Model/1, 11 dT fuel, minimum 20 dT bridge? Maybe a bot in the driver's seat. Jump field cables from that Supplement-9 jump tug thingie, designed to expand around the construct to make a 100 dT volume. 35 dT minimum volume? Less if we can find some excuse to eliminate the bridge - which also might explain why they don't always make it.

No, as I conceived it, they were essentailly jump drives (up to jump-6 possible) with a framework of telescoping rods used to extend a jump net to guide the creation of a jump field. It was connected to a ship by a long cable. A jump solution was fed it by the ship's computer.

* There was no bridge. Maybe that was the reason for the misjump risk?
* The fuel tanks were inflatable, which is not allowed for jump ships. Maybe because it causes a misjump risk?
* Alternatively, the fuel was fed to it from the ship through a long pipeline. I have no idea whether this is physically possible.


Hans

 

[rancke]

-And all due applause for Rancke, really well done sir !

Thanks for the kind words.


Hans

 

[Condottiere]

Jump Capable Smallcraft - You can't really design these without having an inkling why one hundred tons stabilize the transition, and if there minimum performance requirements for various components.

As regards to the bridge, the question would be what are minimum instrumentation needed to control, navigate and transition.

 

[whulorigan]

* The fuel tanks were inflatable, which is not allowed for jump ships. Maybe because it causes a misjump risk?
* Alternatively, the fuel was fed to it from the ship through a long pipeline. I have no idea whether this is physically possible.

Couldn't you generate the necessary power for jump-initiation from the mother-ship's power plant, and transmit it to the torpedo from a distance (either by cable or laser-transmission)? That would drastically cut the on-board fuel-tankage necessary.

 

[rancke]

Couldn't you generate the necessary power for jump-initiation from the mother-ship's power plant, and transmit it to the torpedo from a distance (either by cable or laser-transmission)? That would drastically cut the on-board fuel-tankage necessary.

Oh, yes, I think that was what the cable was also for. It was many years ago and my memory is not all it should be.


Hans

 

[JimMarn]

That story can be found in The Lady in the Tower by Anne McCaffery, which is part of a much larger set of stories and novels:

Thanks ! I thought it might have been her, but I am tired and wasn't sure.

 

[tjoneslo]

Do you have a 'revised X-boat system' Map, anywhere?
is this data planned for inclusion on the Traveller Map in any way?

I have a program for doing route generation. I'm currently working with the T5 Second Survey update 2 process. But I'm working on implementing the system as described. If the maps turn out to be anything useful once I've gotten the process settled, I'll post them either here or on the wiki.

 

[rancke]

Rancke,
thank you, btw, for your massive contributions to the game and this board.
If I could get to Denmark, I'd buy you a couple pints of mead.
If you ever get to Portland, take me up on that offer.

Thanks for the nice words and the offer. Would that be Portland, Oregon or Portland, Maine? I wouldn't want to go to the wrong city.

Do you have a 'revised X-boat system' Map, anywhere?
is this data planned for inclusion on the Traveller Map in any way?

I have a pencil on paper map of the Spinward Marches somewhere, but I can't find it ATM. I have a half-finished map of Deneb with some of my proposed new routes. I also have a map of the Duchy of Regina with revised routes.


Hans

 

[Carlobrand]

No, as I conceived it, they were essentailly jump drives (up to jump-6 possible) with a framework of telescoping rods used to extend a jump net to guide the creation of a jump field. It was connected to a ship by a long cable. A jump solution was fed it by the ship's computer.

* There was no bridge. Maybe that was the reason for the misjump risk?
* The fuel tanks were inflatable, which is not allowed for jump ships. Maybe because it causes a misjump risk?
* Alternatively, the fuel was fed to it from the ship through a long pipeline. I have no idea whether this is physically possible.


Hans

Okay, that works better, though I'd still put a computer in there. Or maye a bot brain is sufficient. Seems to me something needs to control it while it's in jump space.

Couldn't you generate the necessary power for jump-initiation from the mother-ship's power plant, and transmit it to the torpedo from a distance (either by cable or laser-transmission)? That would drastically cut the on-board fuel-tankage necessary.

And that works even better. I'm starting to like this idea.

 

[tjoneslo]

A NEW X-BOAT NET

Maps are here.

I've followed your rules as closely as I can, and have the PyRoute generator, using the latest T5SS data, generate routes.

The maps have three colors of routes. The dark blue lines are Capital -> Sector capital routes. These use J6 to the extent possible, with an occasional J5.

The Cyan (light blue) lines are Subsector capital -> Sector capital routes. For the sectors that have subsector capitals but no sector capital (Magyar, Alpha Crucis, Far side of Reft, Glimmerdrift), the subsector capital is connected to the closest sector capital. These routes use J4, with some J5 routes.

The Green lines are Important (T5 SS IX 4 or 5) worlds connecting them to the closest subsector or sector capital. This may not be the subsector or even the sector where the world is located. These routes use J3/J4, with some longer routes possible.

All of the routes use existing A or B star ports over worlds. There is a moderate preference for using important worlds over lesser worlds. There is a slight preference to use existing scout bases or way stations.

There are some things that look weird until you mechanically apply the rules. There are some odd dog-legs for routes that are J7/J8 apart. There are no deep space stations used for these maps. If you have suggestions on where to place them....

Let me know what you think.

 

[Patron Zero]

If I may, allow me to give this thread a little nudge with the following.

Originally I had this thread started with the intentions of gathering information on X-boat Stations in general but so much useful information has been added so for those sharing such my sincere thanks !

This is where I'd like to toss-out another thought specifically regarding express boat stations, more-so how I envision such.

Working within the resources of available hardware (read starships and non-starships), the IISS might choose to assemble the most basic, and yet functional, x-boat stations by employing the tried and true 1000Ton Type XT Express Boat Tender as building blocks of a sort.

In this fashion, X-boat Stations could quickly be constructed and positioned with minimal delay and maximum efficiency, by said Type XT ships acting as prefabricated 'modules' that deliver themselves 'on-site'.

With minor modifications to their exterior hulls, a pair of Type XTs could be configured as a refueling station also offering limited field repairs and standard maintenance. The paired tenders would be aligned in a 'yin/yang' orientation, bay doors facing one another but distanced apart sufficient to allow ingress-egress to both interiors.

Each hull held to the other by open-frame box-beam support structures, that feature defining a dedicated gas-pump island space for routine inspection and refueling of recovered X-boats themselves. More involved tasks such as minor repairs or diagnostics performed in the bays of the tenders as the originally established protocols set such.

-Such would be designated XBS-Type C, much like the starport classification, save difference being refined fuel available.

A further development, or classification would be the XBS-Type B facility, such offering more extensive repair-refit resources and a enclosed drydock that can be pressurized.

XBS-Type Bs are constructed from three separate 1000Ton tenders so aligned to form a 'triad' structure, hanger bays open outward from two 'sides' with the third facing inward to support the drydock section.

The connecting structural supports holding the three hulls together also act as a framework for the panels that allow the drydock to be pressurized. Entry to said area is made by way of hexagonal 'roof' and 'floor' mounted bay doors, a series of deployable tool-arms can bring an express boat or other small craft inside or launch such easily.

Unique to the XBS-Type B is the option of converting an outward facing bay for mission-specific duties by means of prefabricated modules, think of such as the device bays of a modern PC tower. If required, a station could offer more berthings for additional personnel by the addition of habitat modules, in another arrangement scientific equipment could be installed for stellar research or observation purposes. An XBS-Type B could also function as way-station providing emergency response-disaster relief services and medical facilities beyond what a ship-board 'auto-doc' could offer.

I think all said and done, either XBS-Type C and XBS-Type B would have much to support the Express Boat Network as well as the surrounding spaceways.