• Welcome to the new COTI server. We've moved the Citizens to a new server. Please let us know in the COTI Website issue forum if you find any problems.
  • We, the systems administration staff, apologize for this unexpected outage of the boards. We have resolved the root cause of the problem and there should be no further disruptions.

Blue Darrians Petition!

Do you want Blue Darrians to be added to the OTU?


  • Total voters
    168
And, just as AM8 turns the Darryan into unquestionable space elves with big guns, this turns a small portion of them into nature-abusing, mine dwelling ice-worlders with an attitude. I love it.
AM8 portrays Darrians as a reasonably believable subspecies of Homo sapiens with nothing more elflike about them than pointy ears. You might as well say that they're unquestionable Vulcans. Unquestionable it isn't.

The Blue Darrians, OTOH, are rather unbelievable humaniform aliens made by genetically changing humans into non-humans in the worst tradition of Space Horror.

In my opinion.


Hans
 
Tellon, thanks, she does represent a fair amount of work, after a few days and I started talking to her, I knew it was time to stop working on her. lol Even now looking at that pic I see things I'd really like to fix. Yes, that pic is inspired by the Drow partly, but she is really an homage to all the Heavy Metal magazine cover babes I grew up with:

http://www.coverbrowser.com/covers/heavy-metal/4

(plenty of blue women on those covers too, seems a popular color)

I still have most of them from the early 80's on up through the early 90's. Also my art is inspired by Franzetta, Corben, Valejo, etc. I had this poster of John Carter of Mars on my wall for years growing up:

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/7601/john carter of mars.jpg

Broadsword-6! That really looks like a cutlass to me. lol

No Avatar influence what so ever, none. I haven't seen the movie, I'm sure I will get around to it. I worked in hollywood though and still have contacts there, they have no morals, so going to see Disney's Pocahantas wrapped in new threads is rather lame sounding to me. Far be it for hollywood to actually support any good sci-fi like Chronicles of Riddick or something.

Blue Darrians are a sub-species of human too, interfertile and all, if the Darrians are human then they are too.

They also fill a nice niche in being gypsies, which is missing from Traveller, but they are part of MTU, I didn't really put them up thinking that they would become part of the OTU.

-Robert
 
AM8 portrays Darrians as a reasonably believable subspecies of Homo sapiens with nothing more elflike about them than pointy ears. You might as well say that they're unquestionable Vulcans. Unquestionable it isn't.

Hear, hear!

Yes, that pic is inspired by the Drow partly, but she is really an homage to all the Heavy Metal magazine cover babes I grew up with: (...) (plenty of blue women on those covers too, seems a popular color)

Odd, I must be going colorblind. :)

I didn't see any blue ladies on the link you provided; I did see a trio of albino vampires with wings and a zebra-human hybrid but those surely don't count as humans and I doubt they'd be "interfertle".

Also, please pardon my criticism, but while the ladies on those covers are endowed with generous voluptous shapes and/or athletics physiques, your pic shows a supermodel with a borderline case of Anorexia Nervosa and very odd body proportions. Even if she is interfertile, some Solomani males might have a hard-time "getting it on" with her due ergonomical problems.

I still have most of them from the early 80's on up through the early 90's. Also my art is inspired by Franzetta, Corben, Valejo, etc. I had this poster of John Carter of Mars on my wall for years growing up:

I can see the dead body of a non-human, 6-limbed creature; the lady however isnt' blue, white-haired or enmanciated. She's dark-haired, has a healty skin tone and is obviously well-fed.

Both the Heavy Metal ladies and the Martian Princess look like something any hot-blooded human male (and some females, I guess) could have a lot of fun with. The Blue Darrian Queen looks like a freak of nature that you'd probably shot dead and put on display by the fireplace. :p

That said, it is a very good pic. Only, Traveller it is not, D&D in Space it is.
 
AM8 portrays Darrians as a reasonably believable subspecies of Homo sapiens with nothing more elflike about them than pointy ears. You might as well say that they're unquestionable Vulcans. Unquestionable it isn't.

The Blue Darrians, OTOH, are rather unbelievable humaniform aliens made by genetically changing humans into non-humans in the worst tradition of Space Horror.

In my opinion.


Hans

You and I have different points where verisimilitude kicks in in different areas... AM 8 is NOT a terribly believable one to me. Worst of the lot. (Also, the one I didn't get until 1999... unlike the others, which I have had since the 80's.) The original treatment was less space-elves than AM8.
 
Blue Darrians are a sub-species of human too, interfertile and all, if the Darrians are human then they are too.
We've been over this before. IMO in this universe you can have hemocyanin-based body chemistry or you can be interfertile with humans; you cannot be both.


Hans
 
We've been over this before. IMO in this universe you can have hemocyanin-based body chemistry or you can be interfertile with humans; you cannot be both.


Hans

And you ignored that Hemocyanin is, in fact, used as a theraputic agent in humans. Doesn't wash.
 
And you ignored that Hemocyanin is, in fact, used as a theraputic agent in humans. Doesn't wash.
No, I addressed that. Quinine is also used as a therapeutic agent in humans, but but that doesn't prove that replacing a human's supply of blood with tonic water is going to work well.

Incidentally, that's not the point I was making here. Here I was assuming (for purposes of argument) that altering the human body to function with hemocyanin-based blood WAS possible. However, I strongly believe that the genetic tinkering that would be needed to make something like that work is not going to leave interfertility unaffected. Or the resulting organism able to function in temperatures comfortable to baseline humans, for that matter.


Hans
 
It's not used as a toxic agent, but as a hemoglbin substitute. Sorry Hans, doesn't wash.
 
It's not used as a toxic agent, but as a hemoglbin substitute. Sorry Hans, doesn't wash.
What dosages, Wil, and what condition is it used to treat? And does the patients' bone marrow produce the hemocyanin blood cells? I didn't think so. Your evidence appears to me to be worthless. But I'll have another look at it if you'll do me the favor of posting the link again (I'm afraid I'm not up to digging it out of the archives).

EDIT: But I did do a google search with the keywords 'hemocyanin' and 'treatment'. What I got was mostly references to keyhole limpet hemocyanin and highly specialized biochemistry papers. Keyhole limpet hemocyanin is used to stimulate antibody production[*] in patients being treated for carcinomas. The dosage is 1mg (can't spot the frequency to treatment), rising to 20mg weekly. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8712751

[*] Which, it seems to me, means that it IS used for its toxic effect, that is to say, to provoke the body into a response. Nothing whatsoever to do with its oxygen-carrying properties as far as I can tell.​


Hans
 
Last edited:
Odd, I must be going colorblind. :)

I didn't see any blue ladies on the link you provided; I did see a trio of albino vampires with wings and a zebra-human hybrid but those surely don't count as humans and I doubt they'd be "interfertle".

Also, please pardon my criticism, but while the ladies on those covers are endowed with generous voluptous shapes and/or athletics physiques, your pic shows a supermodel with a borderline case of Anorexia Nervosa and very odd body proportions. Even if she is interfertile, some Solomani males might have a hard-time "getting it on" with her due ergonomical problems.



I can see the dead body of a non-human, 6-limbed creature; the lady however isnt' blue, white-haired or enmanciated. She's dark-haired, has a healty skin tone and is obviously well-fed.

Both the Heavy Metal ladies and the Martian Princess look like something any hot-blooded human male (and some females, I guess) could have a lot of fun with. The Blue Darrian Queen looks like a freak of nature that you'd probably shot dead and put on display by the fireplace. :p

That said, it is a very good pic. Only, Traveller it is not, D&D in Space it is.

They are there, you just have to surf through the covers, I know because I own the originals. You could argue Vargr are Gnolls and then you back to D&D in space. I actually didn't care for D&D much, Squad Leader, now that's a game! But I couldn't get anybody to play it after I got too good, played some Traveller, but everyone played D&D, c'est la vie. I have a musing to make a Stryker e-file for Panzer General 2.

That is a good adventure idea, "Hunting the Hunter", having a group of pc's track down a rogue noble who is hunting sentinent beings, I can just imagine the grisly scene in the trophy room in the safari ship.

I did do some cleanup work on the body (the head is Catherine Zeta Jones), but that is just one picture of the Blue Darrians. The other one "A Wan Smile" (and that is Gina Gershon) is fully human, she looked anatomically correct in Showgirls. lol Expect another Gina as a Blue Darrian sooner or later, I've got that in the works. Those are my influences though, sure I'd like to be as good as Franzetta, I can still try though.


BTW Nobody is talking about any replacing all of someones blood, I don't know where that is coming from, nor changing the entire body chemistry. Maybe being an engineer has twisted my thought process, I mean it has ruined all sports for me (it's all body mechanics), I don't see anything entirely special about genetic modifications. IMTU all Imperials are modified ala Gattaca, they never see people wearing glasses or dying of cancer; invasive cut and sew surgery is largely part of some barbaric past, except for trauma care of course. Look at Lance Armstrong, they accuse him of having blood doping, but his hemoglobin is merely more efficient at carrying oxygen, in thousands of years we will have it pretty well figured out. In the OTU the Imperium is giving people gills, I think you would also need some pretty big modifications to your skin since it is water soluble. lol

Another thing, all elves up until Tolkien were dark or evil relatively so, even now a nightmare is an "Alptraum" or Elf-Dream in German. Tolkien stories were largely allegorical to the world wars.
 
BTW Nobody is talking about any replacing all of someones blood, I don't know where that is coming from, nor changing the entire body chemistry.
It comes from the absurdity of imagining that one could replace hemoglobin-based blood with hemocyanin-based blood without changing the entire body chemistry. Not to mention that enabling a human to function at significantly lower temperatures would involve a few changes to body chemistry too.

(Note that this assumes that hemocyanin-based blood would actually be able to supply the amount of oxygen needed to keep a 100 kg organism functioning at any temperature, something that I think is quite doubtful).

I don't see anything entirely special about genetic modifications.

That's like saying that there's nothing special about falling out of a window. That really depends on which floor you're on. Some genetic modifications are nothing special. A radical change of body chemistry is a big deal.

In the OTU the Imperium is giving people gills, I think you would also need some pretty big modifications to your skin since it is water soluble.
The Nexxies are not interfertile with Homo sapiens. They're hominids, not humans. And yet gills are relatively simple (purely mechanical) compared to radical changes in body chemistry.


Hans
 
The only chemistry seen in the articles, is in the way hemoglobin versus hemocyanin bind the oxygen molecules. So as far as that goes, no body chemistry changes.

Animals, that includes humans, are just another machine, all it takes is the knowledge and tools to modify. They have neo-hemocyanin compunds in their blood, it wouldn't be logical to just use straight hemocyanin, that would be like taking the wheel from a model T and putting it on a porsche. Certainly you could machine it and make it fit, but after you were done you would have spent about the same amount of effort for less performance. The genetics are there for it as well, in the master genes there exists everything mankind ever was. Though this is about as far as I care to go into their blood chemistry. I'm more interested in writng their history and culture, plus military OOB's, etc..

If you want to talk genetic modifications, look at the Vargr, that is like turning a freight train into a jetliner, sure it could be done, but what you would have left would not have much resemblance to a freight train.

Where are Nexxies from? I just remember there being a blurb in the Spinward Marches supplement.
 
The only chemistry seen in the articles, is in the way hemoglobin versus hemocyanin bind the oxygen molecules.
That's all that needed. To quote the wikipedia article about hemocyanin "Although the respiratory function of hemocyanin is similar to that of hemoglobin, there are a significant number of differences in its molecular structure and mechanism." (Emphasis mine). You might as well argue that there's no reason to change a DC installation just because you're going to run it with alternating current. After all, it's electricity either way.

So as far as that goes, no body chemistry changes.
Untrue. You change the blood chemistry, you have to change the cell chemistry. How else are the cells going to extract the oxygen from the blood? How is the bone marrow going to create your alternate blood cells unless you change its function drastically?

Animals, that includes humans, are just another machine, all it takes is the knowledge and tools to modify.
Yes, but very few species of animal are human or hominoid, and if you modify a human significantly it ceases to be a human. There are actually at least three different questions conflated here, "Can it be done/would it work?", which I doubt very much but can't prove, "Would it be done?", which I doubt but won't argue (much) against, and "Would the result still be Homo sapiens?", which I think is self-evidently not the case.

If you want to talk genetic modifications, look at the Vargr, that is like turning a freight train into a jetliner, sure it could be done, but what you would have left would not have much resemblance to a freight train.
The Vargr were modified by the Ancients, who are per definition capable of super-science. Even so, I really really doubt that they're still interfertile with Canis lupus.

Where are Nexxies from? I just remember there being a blurb in the Spinward Marches supplement.
Geneered by (or in cooperation with) the Ministry of Conservation. The original reference (in The Spinward Marches) just mentions 'biologically altered humans'. I'm not sure when that turned into the Nexxines being a distinct species, but there's a comprehensive writeup of them in GT:Humaniti.


Hans
 
Last edited:
They are there, you just have to surf through the covers, I know because I own the originals.

I must really be colorblind. :p

You could argue Vargr are Gnolls and then you back to D&D in space.

Well, there is nothing wrong with D&D in space, Star Frontiers looks like a fun game. There's nothing wrong with turning one's YTU into D&D in Space. But then it won't be Traveller anymore; again, nothing wrong with that. I think what people are voting for or against in this poll is about having blue Darrians in UTO. That's a whole different matter.

And no, you cannot argue that Vargr are Gnolls. I'm not even going to delve deeper into this one...well, alright, ok they are both furry and humanoid that's where the similarities end. If someone used that argument then every work of fiction or image that includes humans would be D&D, because that game has them. :p

Dragoner;343103I actually didn't care for D&D much[/quote said:
The older D&D stuff is actually pretty good IMHO. CT and OD&D have more in common than most people would care to admit.

I did do some cleanup work on the body (the head is Catherine Zeta Jones), but that is just one picture of the Blue Darrians.

Miss Zeta's body shape is more alike the "generous" Heavy Metal babes than the "bulimic elf" look. Why the need for the Drow body at all? Just work with what the lady gives you.

The other one "A Wan Smile" (and that is Gina Gershon) is fully human, she looked anatomically correct in Showgirls.

Ai! She looks like a corpse with that skin tone. Ok, I changed my mind...I think I'd rather have the Zeta-surrogate. :)

lol Expect another Gina as a Blue Darrian sooner or later, I've got that in the works. Those are my influences though, sure I'd like to be as good as Franzetta, I can still try though.

Why don't you modify pictures of perfectly normal folks? I don't think most Darrians, blue or not, will look like female holywood sex symbols.

Let's have some originality and realism here, for once! I want to see 50 year old Darrian males with beer bellies and stubble. I'm sure even the Drow have fat people and their women get affected by gravity when they cross the 300 years barrier. :D
 
Well, there is nothing wrong with D&D in space, Star Frontiers looks like a fun game. There's nothing wrong with turning one's YTU into D&D in Space. But then it won't be Traveller anymore; again, nothing wrong with that. I think what people are voting for or against in this poll is about having blue Darrians in UTO. That's a whole different matter.

Ah the Blue Darrians get no love, just like the orphans they are. I didn't post the poll, though I will stand for them as my creation, I never had planned for them to be official. The fact that they have created such emotion is good though IMO.

The older D&D stuff is actually pretty good IMHO. CT and OD&D have more in common than most people would care to admit.

AD&D from the early 80's is about as far as I got with that stuff, so any later Drow stuff I don't know about. I prefer Traveller for a thousand different reasons, but I like cool sci fi over the akward nerdy stuff.


Miss Zeta's body shape is more alike the "generous" Heavy Metal babes than the "bulimic elf" look. Why the need for the Drow body at all? Just work with what the lady gives you.

I guess I liked the clothes, as much work as the figure took, the background took an amazing amount of work as well. Just turning the A-10's into the background ships wasn't a simple task. With art, I go where the muse takes me.

Why don't you modify pictures of perfectly normal folks? I don't think most Darrians, blue or not, will look like female holywood sex symbols.

Let's have some originality and realism here, for once! I want to see 50 year old Darrian males with beer bellies and stubble. I'm sure even the Drow have fat people and their women get affected by gravity when they cross the 300 years barrier.

Number one, I guess if I am going to be staring at a picture for hours on end, I like it to be a beautiful woman? Call me just a normal red-blooded Solomani man. :D

Otherwise, yes, there is the BD Trooper, it is real, I p-chopped the gun and then on to the figure and made/modified the background. None of it is easy though, just the anti-aliasing by hand alone takes a good amount of time.

That's all that needed. To quote the wikipedia article about hemocyanin "Although the respiratory function of hemocyanin is similar to that of hemoglobin, there are a significant number of differences in its molecular structure and mechanism." (Emphasis mine). You might as well argue that there's no reason to change a DC installation just because you're going to run it with alternating current. After all, it's electricity either way.

That is exactly what I am talking about, that sentence is merely about the process of how the two different compounds bind oxygen, otherwise it states their function is similar. As per electricity, the generation (AC or DC) is secondary to if the system is spec'd for the voltage, amps and ohms. It is all electricity either way. Though oxygen in itself is a highly corrosive and toxic gas (ie if someone was put in a 100% oxygen enviornment, they would die) so ether way it is oxygen. Though it would be illogical to assume that if you were there engineering something, you would be doing it for lower performance. Any issues such as chemistry would be worked out before hand; it's the model T wheel (hemocyanin), once engineered, it becomes the porsche wheel (neo-hemocyanin).


Yes, but very few species of animal are human or hominoid, and if you modify a human significantly it ceases to be a human. There are actually at least three different questions conflated here, "Can it be done/would it work?", which I doubt very much but can't prove, "Would it be done?", which I doubt but won't argue (much) against, and "Would the result still be Homo sapiens?", which I think is self-evidently not the case.

If they are Darrian, then they are put of the genus Homo Darrianus? lol I remember reading that about the Darrians someplace. This just gets too nit-picky, otherwise Darrians can't talk because they are missing the FOXP2 gene and lack the subcortical structures for language. Missing language, you won't have much of a civilization. The questions should be separate for clarity though. Generally I am not trying to reinvent the wheel, just going with what is there. Even the stuff about Entrope/Torment, the Maghiz, is all extrapolation from what is there, it all just fell into place, what can I say?


The Vargr were modified by the Ancients, who are per definition capable of super-science. Even so, I really really doubt that they're still interfertile with Canis lupus.

Creating Rosettes is super science, genetics is not, and you only have what there is in beginning to work with unless you are down to changing the basic form, ie you can only increase the stroke on a crankshaft of a IC engine until you run up against the barrier of excessive rod to stroke angle and with that snap your rods. There are work arounds, but with the vargr being terrestrial organisms, the physionomy has to stay relatively similar. Tools and knowledge, it's all you need, one thing engineering teaches you is that everything is a system.


Geneered by (or in cooperation with) the Ministry of Conservation. The original reference (in The Spinward Marches) just mentions 'biologically altered humans'. I'm not sure when that turned into the Nexxines being a distinct species, but there's a comprehensive writeup of them in GT:Humaniti.

Ah, ok, I have never seen the GT stuff. I'm a CT'er (lol and this is the only site where I can say that).

greets,
-Robert
 
That is exactly what I am talking about, that sentence is merely about the process of how the two different compounds bind oxygen, otherwise it states their function is similar.
"You change the blood chemistry, you have to change the cell chemistry. How else are the cells going to extract the oxygen from the blood? How is the bone marrow going to create your alternate blood cells unless you change its function drastically?" [Me].​

Any issues such as chemistry would be worked out before hand; it's the model T wheel (hemocyanin), once engineered, it becomes the porsche wheel (neo-hemocyanin).
Sticking a 'neo' in front of it doesn't change the blindingly obvious fact that if it performs differently, the chemistry involved has to be different. That's sort of an inherent property of chemical reactions. And the whole point of your notion is that it's supposed to enable the Blue Darrians to function under radically different temperatures and oxygen levels. That means radically different chemistry.

If they are Darrian, then they are put of the genus Homo Darrianus?
Their genus is Homo just like all other branckes of Humaniti. Their species is Homo sapiens, since they're interfertile with other branches of Homo sapiens. However, they're differentiated enough to be a separate subspecies[*], so they're Homo sapiens darrianus, just as Solomani are Homos sapiens sapiens, the Vilani are Homo sapiens vlandensis, the Zhodani are Homo sapiens zhodotlas, etc. Other minor human races, like the Luriani, are not interfertile with Homo sapiens, so they're different species (e.g. Homo luriani) but still genus Homo.

[*] Though some taxonomers argue that subspecies is not a valid concept. Imperial scientists disagree.​

This just gets too nit-picky, otherwise Darrians can't talk because they are missing the FOXP2 gene and lack the subcortical structures for language. Missing language, you won't have much of a civilization.
This argument makes no sense. Since the Darrians can speak, they obviously do have the subcortical structures for language, and since they're Homo sapiens, odds are extremely good that they have those structures because they have the same genes as any other branch of Homo sapiens.

Creating Rosettes is super science, genetics is not, and you only have what there is in beginning to work with unless you are down to changing the basic form
Changing the body chemistry is a good deal more basic than mere changes in the basic form. Dog breeders have been changing the basic form of dogs for centuries without any sort of genetic engineering at all.

Ah, ok, I have never seen the GT stuff. I'm a CT'er (lol and this is the only site where I can say that).
Oh, I'm almost certain the Nexxies became a distinct species long before GT, I just can't remember where. Might have been a later CT book, might have been an MT book. GT merely did a major writeup.


Hans
 
Ah the Blue Darrians get no love, just like the orphans they are. I didn't post the poll, though I will stand for them as my creation, I never had planned for them to be official. The fact that they have created such emotion is good though IMO.

Well, blue Darrian offshoots in YTU or MTU are fine. But for Mongoose to publish something about them seems like a waste of money too me.

Then again, who am I to speak? I'm working hard at the Gallatinians, a Solomani offshoot. ;)

Otherwise, yes, there is the BD Trooper, it is real, I p-chopped the gun and then on to the figure and made/modified the background. None of it is easy though, just the anti-aliasing by hand alone takes a good amount of time.

For what its worth, my favorite pic from your gallery is the Imperial Army Recruitment Poster. A Good-looking gal, but standard enough that you could meet her walking down the street.

Awesome rifle too! What is that thing exactly? Does it exist in real life?
 
from the Wiki artcle on Hemocyyanins
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemocyanin

"Although the respiratory function of hemocyanin is similar to that of hemoglobin, there are a significant number of differences in its molecular structure and mechanism. Whereas hemoglobin carries its iron atoms in porphyrin rings (heme groups), the copper atoms of hemocyanin are bound as prosthetic groups coordinated by histidine residues. Species using hemocyanin for oxygen transportation are commonly crustaceans living in cold environments with low oxygen pressure. Under these circumstances hemoglobin oxygen transportation is less efficient than hemocyanin oxygen transportation.

Most hemocyanins bind with oxygen non-cooperatively and are roughly one-fourth as efficient as hemoglobin at transporting oxygen per amount of blood. "

ok -- so were dealing with oxygen transport that is 25% as efficient, works well for low oxygen pressures, and aquatic -- so SLOW moving critters basically

Sounds like it could work on an outer-planet, with an ocean underneath ice -- say a Water/Ammonia ocean.
 
from the Wiki artcle on Hemocyyanins
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemocyanin

"Although the respiratory function of hemocyanin is similar to that of hemoglobin, there are a significant number of differences in its molecular structure and mechanism. Whereas hemoglobin carries its iron atoms in porphyrin rings (heme groups), the copper atoms of hemocyanin are bound as prosthetic groups coordinated by histidine residues. Species using hemocyanin for oxygen transportation are commonly crustaceans living in cold environments with low oxygen pressure. Under these circumstances hemoglobin oxygen transportation is less efficient than hemocyanin oxygen transportation.

Most hemocyanins bind with oxygen non-cooperatively and are roughly one-fourth as efficient as hemoglobin at transporting oxygen per amount of blood. "

ok -- so were dealing with oxygen transport that is 25% as efficient, works well for low oxygen pressures, and aquatic -- so SLOW moving critters basically

Sounds like it could work on an outer-planet, with an ocean underneath ice -- say a Water/Ammonia ocean.

Futher on in the article it states:

"In some hemocyanins of horseshoe crabs and some other species of arthropods, cooperative binding is observed, with Hill coefficients of 1.6 - 3.0. Hill constants vary depending on species and laboratory measurement settings. Hemoglobin, for comparison, has a Hill coefficient of usually 2.8 - 3.0."

So it would be logical if you were engineering this, you would incorporate the more efficient design into yours. Thus increasing oxygen transport, though with oxygen being toxic in itself, I would guess you couldn't surpass this limit. Hard to say though. But in essense, it is not much different than what is being done with food today by companies such as Monsanto, the blues are just GMO Humans.:D

Well, blue Darrian offshoots in YTU or MTU are fine. But for Mongoose to publish something about them seems like a waste of money too me.

If Mongoose offered me to write the Blue Darrians up for them I would say....

...yes.

I'd be a fool not to, get paid for writing stuff about Trav? Pinch me, I'm dreaming. However, they haven't.

Then again, who am I to speak? I'm working hard at the Gallatinians, a Solomani offshoot. ;)

Have you posted it here? Sounds interesting. I've found the feedback on the Blue Darrians to be helpful in developing them.


For what its worth, my favorite pic from your gallery is the Imperial Army Recruitment Poster. A Good-looking gal, but standard enough that you could meet her walking down the street.

Awesome rifle too! What is that thing exactly? Does it exist in real life?

Thanks! I have more stuff like that planned, I need to improve the lettering though, a little too faded looking.

Those are Peruvian Special Forces, I just monkeyed with the background and added the Imperial Star, the rifle is a FN F2000. I thought it looked sufficiently high tech enough for Trav; IMTU I classify weapons by the caliber of the bullet (pistol/carbine/rifle), so Assault Rifles like that are a carbine being a short rifle round.

"You change the blood chemistry, you have to change the cell chemistry. How else are the cells going to extract the oxygen from the blood? How is the bone marrow going to create your alternate blood cells unless you change its function drastically?" [Me].​

This is just guesswork of yours, right?


Sticking a 'neo' in front of it doesn't change the blindingly obvious fact that if it performs differently, the chemistry involved has to be different. That's sort of an inherent property of chemical reactions. And the whole point of your notion is that it's supposed to enable the Blue Darrians to function under radically different temperatures and oxygen levels. That means radically different chemistry.

The fact is is that it performs in a similar fashion:

"the respiratory function of hemocyanin is similar to that of hemoglobin"

So the chemistry can stay the same, no need to radically alter it. What you are talking about only relates to the chemical composition of the molecule. The next sentence after the one you quoted (same paragraph) continues and explains it:

Whereas hemoglobin carries its iron atoms in porphyrin rings (heme groups), the copper atoms of hemocyanin are bound as prosthetic groups coordinated by histidine residues.


As with "neo-", it can mean whatever I want it to. In the wargame world there is a saying "The Designer is Always Right", which with the adherence to canon here, I believe is reasonably similar. Getting too nitpicky destroys the raison d'etre of the game; I'll trade some realism for imagintion and wonder, otherwise I wouldn't be here. Of course the Blue Darrians do not exist in reality, nor Darrians, etc. ad infinitum. Einstein has a good quote:

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed."



Dog breeders have been changing the basic form of dogs for centuries without any sort of genetic engineering at all.

"Stone by stone I build this house of mine." Yes, that is genetic engeering, just using Mendelian genetics and not today's genetic sciences, which could be considered on another order of magnitude higher, which it would only be logical to extrapolate that tommorrow's will be another order higher as well. If it wasn't for ethical concerns, we would probably be seeing much more genetic experimentation on humans today. I think in the future, as the science becomes more proven, it will probably be much more commonplace for people to be genetically modified, for all sorts of various reasons, mostly healthwise I suppose.

-Robert
 
This is just guesswork of yours, right?
I think of it as common sense. To me it seems blindingly obvious that if it performs differently, the chemistry involved has to be different. That's sort of an inherent property of chemical reactions. And the whole point of your notion is that it's supposed to enable the Blue Darrians to function under radically different temperatures and oxygen levels. That means radically different chemistry.

"the respiratory function of hemocyanin is similar to that of hemoglobin"
Similar, yes, but whereas hemoglobin carries its iron atoms in porphyrin rings (heme groups), the copper atoms of hemocyanin are bound as prosthetic groups coordinated by histidine residues. In other words, different. Not the samme. Dissimilar.

So the chemistry can stay the same, no need to radically alter it.
This is just guesswork of yours, right?

What you are talking about only relates to the chemical composition of the molecule. The next sentence after the one you quoted (same paragraph) continues and explains it:

Whereas hemoglobin carries its iron atoms in porphyrin rings (heme groups), the copper atoms of hemocyanin are bound as prosthetic groups coordinated by histidine residues.
As I said, different. Not the samme. Dissimilar.

As with "neo-", it can mean whatever I want it to.
In your TU it can certainly mean whatever you want it to. But if it doesn't make sense, you can't force it to make sense by decree. Not even in your own TU and certainly not in the OTU. Not even Marc Miller can do that, although he can decree that it doesn't have to make sense for the OTU. That isn't going to make it make sense, though.

In the wargame world there is a saying "The Designer is Always Right", which with the adherence to canon here, I believe is reasonably similar.
I don't think the designer of Traveller material has any inherent right to be highly implausible. There can be reasons in specific cases why he should be allowed to get away with it, but that's another matter altogether. Is this one of those cases? I don't think so, you do think so. But that's simply a question of opinion.

But that has nothing to do with the original question, to wit, are your claims about the Blue Darrians completely implausible?

Getting too nitpicky destroys the raison d'etre of the game; I'll trade some realism for imagination and wonder, otherwise I wouldn't be here.
False dichotomy. It's not a question of either accepting your Blue Darrians or utterly giving up on imagination and wonder. You can have imagination and wonder without Blue Darrians. Though I do admit that Traveller tend to be more down to earth than Flash Gordon, John Carter, Tarl Cabot, and that lot. James H. Schmitz rather than E.E. Smith; Sprague de Camp rather than Burroughs; Anderson, Dickson, Piper and Vance rather than Lin Carter, Michael Moorcock, and... well, I can't remember many more Sword and planet authors offhand, but I hope you get my drift. You can have planetary romance without involving astral projection and egg-laying humans.


Hans
 
Back
Top