Blue Darrians Petition!

[Dragoner]

Note that I didn't post this poll. I am somewhat compelled to reply because they are my creation, however I only posted them in contact for others to enjoy if they wish, along with a bit of artwork in the gallery. Like I said, they have taken on a life of their own. Maybe it is being a 42 year old man, I can't really see the point in flaming somebody on the internet. I'm sorry if you don't like them, it wasn't my point to upset people, certainly I have found the discussion, both positive and negative, helpful in their development and interesting in it's own right. I do not have any regrets at all in that manner.

Regards,
Robert

 

[Ishmael]

change my vote to YES

Blue Darrians should be possible AND be able to interbreed with humans...
Blue humans too.
Just not with the backstory of copper-based blood as originally given.
Read this;

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~kyperry3/Blue_Fugates_Troublesome_Creek.html

different backstory and it could become a cool adventure for medical types.
or a basis for a story from a poor backwater world

 

[Dragoner]

Interesting article, cyanosis, hmmm. Yes they could be changed around for a medical adventure. Mine are mostly military at the moment however.

 

[Jame]

So ... regular Darrians can't interbreed with Solomani/Vilani?

 

[Ishmael]

of course they can in the OTU, but the main argument against blue darrians before was that a copper-based blood would make them unable to interbreed with regular darrians or any regular humans.

But these links demonstrate that it is possible for a darrian or other race from human stock to both be blue AND be able to interbreed. Canon is maintained, thus there is no reason to exclude them ( unless someone comes up with another reason )

 

[Seriayne]

Not that you can't have more than one blue 'minor human race', but I pretty much take the Yileans of Gashikan as the already established 'blue race'.

They're a little rare in the Marches though if you want a 'blue race', having been nearly annihilated on their homeworld by the vargr awhile back. They're pretty much busy full time trying to hold their third empire together while making life for Vargr in their neck of the woods as uncomfortable as possible.

As to the 'elves' thing, I always did think that the AM8 Darrians looked like elves, but pretty much left it at that. Looked. Not behaved, not shared a similar culture etc. They're a small power with a HUGE chip on their shoulder and pissed off at the Swords Worlders for not helping them recover from the Maghiz.

They always struck me as being a bit more officious and bureaucratic than even Imperials - all those b/w sketches from early Traveller works by Donna Bar (From Exit Visa among others - guys who looked like Star Wars Imperial officers) struck me as more Darrian than Imperial.

----------------

As to the aslan, I always liked the Mike Vilardi pieces from Solomani/Aslan. They didn't look as leonine as Mongoose's piece, but even so I thought their females were attractive - to the point I was kinda surprised they got away with so many topless shots - even if two of them were hunting/fighting scenes. (And here, we have females, uh, in TL0-1 garb, going at it again. Next shot, Aslan males dressed in heavy Japanese/Klingon/Nuveau 'Plastic' with guns.)

Speaking of Mongoose and female aslan - uh, there's a lot of Kzin-bleedover, and I'm not just talking about Glorious Empire 'eating monkey meat' stuff. Mainstream Aslan clans seem to have ... harems? And Aslan starports with sections for entertaining guests with settings reminiscent of 'harems' - uh? I know there's a lot of leeway between different clan 'traditions' but this seems a little out there even for trans-rift colonies.

 

[Arvig]

So ... regular Darrians can't interbreed with Solomani/Vilani?

Someone else already answered this, but yes they can. In fact, at least some of the current Darrian population has some Solomani ancestry. Turkish to be specific if memory serves. Darrian was a pre-industrial planet before a group of Solomani colonists landed there.

 

[Arvig]

Arvig, that's actually what I'd thought of Darrians as looking like - though when I and another played Darrians and the GM asked us to choose someone for a picture, I chose Adam Beach and the other chose Cote de Pablo. Ironic, huh?

I wonder how one pronounces her name...

Have you ever seen the cover of the CT Alien Module 8, Darrians? The lady on that cover if memory serves has more of a golden hue to her skin. In my mind, that's how I've seen them.

For reference:

http://www.rpg.net/pictures/show-pic.phtml?picid=170

As you can see, it's not a strong golden hue, some would just describe that as tan, but it's not white.

(In fact, her hair in that shot actually looks like a very light blonde. In my memory I had remembered it as white to be honest).

As an aside, I always assumed the guy getting mugged in this shot is a Darrian based on the ears, but I'm not sure of that. The tall one in the foreground does have "golden" skin, but I always assumed he's meant to be an Azanti. No idea on the middle one with the dagger:

http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/humaniti/img/cover_lg.jpg


As an aside, I hope my other posts aren't seen as a flame of Blue Darrians. Again, I don't like the idea, but I'm also not going to flame the idea. Nor would I, if I were to somehow become a member of a gaming group using them (and I'm a player, not the GM) refuse to play because the GM has Blue Darrian NPC's and/or a Blue Darrian PC in the game. IMTU, Blue Darrians don't exist. In another's Traveller Universe, they may exist. And if the GM is a decent storyteller, it might be fun to meet them someday.

 

[Ishmael]

What if pockets of darrians that were somewhat isolated after the flare that engaged in inbreeding in a manner described by the article I previously posted making the recessive gene responsible for blue skin more common in some bloodlines AND that this recessive gene is linked to another recessive gene that influence psionic abilities.

Pure blood darrians with a single recessive gene might then have a slightly elevated psionic rating, but one whose parents both had the recessive gene, and thus have blue skin, would have a much stronger psionic rating. This might give rise to folklore and myths concerning the blue-skinned as being 'magic users' and witches. Any psionic institutes in darrian controller space would have large numbers of blue-skinned and make them much harder to contact; bias against psionics users AND victimization due to bigotry combine to drive them under the fabric of polite society.

Blue-skinned would probably be the discriminated against and perhaps even be the victims of pogroms. Hence, they'd be isolated and wary of outsiders even as the majority simultaneously denigrates and tries to ignore them. There is little 'official' information about them and some denials that they even exist. Some groups may even try to blame the solomani and claim the solomani brought the recessive gene although the folklore and myths indicate that it existed before they came. The examples of golden-skinned darrians are held up as pure and an ideal, especially in propaganda posters and films, whereas those without golden skin and blond hair are considered 'tainted' in some way. There would be a hint of fear by the common population when dealing with them.

Blue-skinned... at least there is a hard-science explanation for them and actual real-life examples living in the human race.

 

[rancke]

of course they can in the OTU, but the main argument against blue darrians before was that a copper-based blood would make them unable to interbreed with regular darrians or any regular humans.

But these links demonstrate that it is possible for a darrian or other race from human stock to both be blue AND be able to interbreed. Canon is maintained, thus there is no reason to exclude them ( unless someone comes up with another reason )

As long as the mechanism is plausible and the Blue Darrians sufficiently obscure to explain why they weren't mentioned in the original writeup (much as blue humans aren't mentioned in most articles describing humans), I see no inherent reason why they shouldn't exist in the OTU. Whether they are worth while introducing is another question and would depend entirely on what the author of a writeup came up with to make them interesting.

Just not another noble warrior race, please? Pretty please with sugar on it?


Hans

 

[rancke]

What if pockets of Darrians that were somewhat isolated after the flare that engaged in inbreeding in a manner described by the article I previously posted making the recessive gene responsible for blue skin more common in some bloodlines AND that this recessive gene is linked to another recessive gene that influence psionic abilities.

What an amazing coincidence!

Pure blood Darrians with a single recessive gene might then have a slightly elevated psionic rating, but one whose parents both had the recessive gene, and thus have blue skin, would have a much stronger psionic rating. This might give rise to folklore and myths concerning the blue-skinned as being 'magic users' and witches.

Possible, although the Darrian cultural predeliction for the scientific method makes it rather more likely that the mechanism would be perfectly well understood and psionic powers would be a subject for study, regulation, and utilization rather than a cause for alarm.

By the time the Darrians reach TTL9 again, a little genetic tinkering would be sufficient to eliminate the blue gene, if desired.

Any psionic institutes in Darrian controlled space would have large numbers of blue-skinned and make them much harder to contact; bias against psionics users AND victimization due to bigotry combine to drive them under the fabric of polite society.

Rather hard to hide if you have blue skin, I would have thought. And, again, Darrians are very big on tolerance. I'm not saying prejudice couldn't rear its ugly head, but it's not exactly what you'd expect from Darrians.


Hans

 

[Ishmael]

What an amazing coincidence!

With all the coincidences that already exist in the OTU, what's one more. Besides, the Ancients were involved and even gave them their very own garden of Eden, so to speak. Whats a little boost to psionic potential, especially if it would allow Osnorik<sp?> to communicate with them a little bit easier. Plus it gives an excuse to build a bit of folklore into the background of the Darrians ( and a plot hook too ) besides the old "beautiful, ancient and wise race who once lived as one with nature in idyllic gardens" *coughelvescough* trope.
I've seen a source on the 'net that states that the Maghiz wiped out 90% of the population. Such a massive die-off combined with the destruction of the tech base had to have made inbreeding more likely, even if not within immediate families. Thus the propagation of such a recessive gene is easily explained.

Possible, although the Darrian cultural predeliction for the scientific method makes it rather more likely that the mechanism would be perfectly well understood and psionic powers would be a subject for study, regulation, and utilization rather than a cause for alarm.

Even during low tech level periods of their history?
If anything, the "a subject for study, regulation, and utilization"* would end up making blue-skinned subjects of experimentation much like certain times in human history when humans experimented on humans.
Predilection for scientific method means nothing. It would be just as likely that the 'scientists' viewed blue-skinned as defective and proceed to eliminate them.
It's becoming very difficult to proceed with this line of discussion without invoking Godwin's Law concerning the Darrians..

Rather hard to hide if you have blue skin, I would have thought. And, again, Darrians are very big on tolerance. I'm not saying prejudice couldn't rear its ugly head, but it's not exactly what you'd expect from Darrians.

I never said blue-skinned would hide or be hard to locate. I said that successfully contacting a psionic institute, with blue-skinned members would be more difficult. Besides the 'normal' Imperial prejudice against psionics, the numbers of blue-skinned members would make it likely that they would be located in slums or ghettos. The members would already be persecuted and thus far less likely to welcome non-blue strangers; I'll bet they have had their fill of 'sting' operations already even beyond the normal security sweeps.

And no, its not what one might expect from the way OTU darrians are written, but thats a plus imho.
Aliens should not have nice neat homogeneous cultures that avoid all that evil crap of humanity had/has.
Besides, unlike so much of Traveller's alien lore, this model of blue darrians actually has a hard-science cause and real-world examples.

And now for something completely different;
Here is a profile of a single darrian's relationship profile.
Although I present it tongue-n-cheek, it does seem to fit the OTU Darrian psychology to a scary degree.
http://famous-relationships.topsynergy.com/Racquel_Darrian/
( this sort of site should be a boon when making npc's, eh? )

* put this phrase in google and the second hit is the Office fo Laboratory Animal Welfare

 

[rancke]

With all the coincidences that already exist in the OTU, what's one more.

With all the coincidences that already exists in the OTU, one should try not to add more, lest the camel's back break .

Besides, the Ancients were involved and even gave them their very own garden of Eden, so to speak. Whats a little boost to psionic potential, especially if it would allow Osnorik<sp?> to communicate with them a little bit easier. Plus it gives an excuse to build a bit of folklore into the background of the Darrians ( and a plot hook too ) besides the old "beautiful, ancient and wise race who once lived as one with nature in idyllic gardens" *coughelvescough* trope.

It's not the psionic abilities I'm talking about (although if Onsorik wanted to give his pets psionic abilities, one wonders why he didn't just make it a dominant trait and be done with it). It's the accidental linkage of psionic abilities with a random mutation that seems a mite unlikely.

I've seen a source on the 'net that states that the Maghiz wiped out 90% of the population. Such a massive die-off combined with the destruction of the tech base had to have made inbreeding more likely, even if not within immediate families. Thus the propagation of such a recessive gene is easily explained.

The die-off was 80% [AM8, p. 10], and nothing is likelier than random mutations showing up after an event like the Maghiz or recessive traits cropping up in isolated population groups.

What is also likely is that once Darrian technology reached 9 again, unwanted recessives would be eliminated.

Possible, although the Darrian cultural predeliction for the scientific method makes it rather more likely that the mechanism would be perfectly well understood and psionic powers would be a subject for study, regulation, and utilization rather than a cause for alarm.

Even during low tech level periods of their history?

Yes. Even during the first low tech period of their history.

"In the Boyr Basin around -23,000, the philosopher-king Derit Lipit first formally stated the philosophical premise that has shaped Darrian thought ever since: "Every living thing has a right to live according to its own nature." [AM8. p. 7]

The survivors of the Maghiz wouldn't be ignorant cave-dwellers. They'd be heirs to a highly sophisticated culture. Conditions might be dire in the immediate aftermath, but by the time several generations had gone by, the emergency would be long over.

If anything, the "a subject for study, regulation, and utilization"* would end up making blue-skinned subjects of experimentation much like certain times in human history when humans experimented on humans.
Predilection for scientific method means nothing. It would be just as likely that the 'scientists' viewed blue-skinned as defective and proceed to eliminate them.

I don't think that's very likely. Much more likely that they would regard them as suffering from a managble medical condition and leave them to their own devices until it became possible to cure the condition. Much as we treat various unsightly skin conditions today rather than herding the sufferers into leper colonies.

I never said blue-skinned would hide or be hard to locate. I said that successfully contacting a psionic institute, with blue-skinned members would be more difficult. Besides the 'normal' Imperial prejudice against psionics, the numbers of blue-skinned members would make it likely that they would be located in slums or ghettos. The members would already be persecuted and thus far less likely to welcome non-blue strangers; I'll bet they have had their fill of 'sting' operations already even beyond the normal security sweeps.

Why would the Darrians buy into the Imperial hysteria? I can see them toning down the public use of psionics out of concern for their Imperial neighbors, but there's no reason why they would stigmatize the use of psionics. Just don't tell when there's an Imperial around.


Hans

 

[Ishmael]

It's not the psionic abilities I'm talking about (although if Onsorik wanted to give his pets psionic abilities, one wonders why he didn't just make it a dominant trait and be done with it). It's the accidental linkage of psionic abilities with a random mutation that seems a mite unlikely.

The die-off was 80% [AM8, p. 10], and nothing is likelier than random mutations showing up after an event like the Maghiz or recessive traits cropping up in isolated population groups.

Thank you for making one argument for me
And that's not even bringing up the topic of inbreeding, which would increase the likelyhood of recessive genes being passed on to future generations, too.
hmmmm... on any of the numerous low-pop worlds with pop of 3 or less ( 28% of all worlds when using the standard UWP generation?), unless there is a relatively high turnover rate with that population, there should end up being more inbreeding than one might think is going on in the Imperium.

The psionic link is unimportant. It was just an idea to give some color to a background concept that might make for interesting in-game play. And perhaps a tip of the hat the 'dark elves' which are supposedly powerful magic users. We can shove it away, if you like.

What is also likely is that once Darrian technology reached 9 again, unwanted recessives would be eliminated.

an unfortunate way of stating it, concerning my hinting at the possibility of pogroms and genocides.

The survivors of the Maghiz wouldn't be ignorant cave-dwellers. They'd be heirs to a highly sophisticated culture. Conditions might be dire in the immediate aftermath, but by the time several generations had gone by, the emergency would be long over.

I think that this is a more likely description of events immediately following the Maghiz, only much faster and much worse.

http://www.energybulletin.net/node/47157

Imagine a post-Katrina New Orleans or post-earthquake Haiti except that nobody could leave and that nobody came to help. Now imagine it a million times worse.

I don't think that's very likely. Much more likely that they would regard them as suffering from a managble medical condition and leave them to their own devices until it became possible to cure the condition. Much as we treat various unsightly skin conditions today rather than herding the sufferers into leper colonies.

I disagree here about how likely my idea is vs. your idea. Unfortunately, I choose not to discuss historical examples as the thread would sink into political crap, what with the links between genetic purity and genocides and all. Naturally, canon says nothing about this and describes Darrians in rosy, wise, and philosophically elvish terms.
But I do know that my idea would give a much more exciting background to play in.

Why would the Darrians buy into the Imperial hysteria? I can see them toning down the public use of psionics out of concern for their Imperial neighbors, but there's no reason why they would stigmatize the use of psionics. Just don't tell when there's an Imperial around.

Perhaps you're right about Darrian views concerning psionics and their suppression.
So you can see that the Daryen Confederation is Finlandized in relation to the Imperium,eh?
I like that!

in any case, there is no reason to exclude blue darrians from canon now. Either they were/are persecuted or else they were benevolently cured of their genetic disease.
Oh wait....

"In the Boyr Basin around -23,000, the philosopher-king Derit Lipit first formally stated the philosophical premise that has shaped Darrian thought ever since: "Every living thing has a right to live according to its own nature." [AM8. p. 7]

".....to live according to its own nature." , might imply a philosophical refusal to tamper with genetics after all.
(and after the Maghiz, to "play at being god" in any fashion.)
And if a king says it, then even the lowest beggar scrapping for a crust of food believes it too.

 

[rancke]

Thank you for making one argument for me

Why not? I'm not trying to browbeat you or anyone else into agreeing with me, and I see no sense in attempting to deny obvious facts.

And that's not even bringing up the topic of inbreeding, which would increase the likelyhood of recessive genes being passed on to future generations, too.

The likelihood is the same with or without inbreeding. What is increased with inbreeding is the chance of someone inheriting the recessive gene from both parents.

hmmmm... on any of the numerous low-pop worlds with pop of 3 or less ( 28% of all worlds when using the standard UWP generation?), unless there is a relatively high turnover rate with that population, there should end up being more inbreeding than one might think is going on in the Imperium.

Personally I believe that the overwhelming majority of low-population worlds are outposts of one kind or another. There will be exceptions, but they'll be rare. So people are born elsewhere, go there for some years, and return to their homeworld. IMO.

The psionic link is unimportant. It was just an idea to give some color to a background concept that might make for interesting in-game play. And perhaps a tip of the hat the 'dark elves' which are supposedly powerful magic users. We can shove it away, if you like.

Why bother? I'm not writing the next version of the Darrians and neither are you. If you want Blue Darrian psionicists in YTU, don't let my disapproval keep you from doing so. If I don't want Blue Darrian psionicists in MTU, there aren't going to be any, no matter how canonical they become. It was the linkage that triggered my comment. If there's no linkage, my comment becomes moot.

an unfortunate way of stating it, concerning my hinting at the possibility of pogroms and genocides.

It's only unfortunate if one ignores the fact that geneering becomes safe and easy at TTL9 (At least IIRC. If I'm wrong, please assume I meant TL<whenever geneering becomes safe and easy>).

Imagine a post-Katrina New Orleans or post-earthquake Haiti except that nobody could leave and that nobody came to help. Now imagine it a million times worse.

You miss my point, which is that in order for recessives to show up in a population in significant numbers, you need several generations of inbreeding. By the time the Blue Darrians manifest, the Maghiz will be long over and anyone who is alive was born and grew up with the life-or-death post-Maghiz problems solved (one way or another) a century before.

I disagree here about how likely my idea is vs. your idea. Unfortunately, I choose not to discuss historical examples as the thread would sink into political crap, what with the links between genetic purity and genocides and all. Naturally, canon says nothing about this and describes Darrians in rosy, wise, and philosophically elvish terms.

The salient point is that canon describes the Darrians as having a different history than Earth. Different history, different results.

But I do know that my idea would give a much more exciting background to play in.

There's plenty of room in the Traveller Universe for exiting backgrounds. Why mess with one of the few descriptions we have of a culture that differs from the bog-standard thirteen-to-the-dozen Earth clone?

".....to live according to its own nature." , might imply a philosophical refusal to tamper with genetics after all.

It might, but it doesn't. Check Darrians p. 15.

And if a king says it, then even the lowest beggar scrapping for a crust of food believes it too.

"...the philosophical premise that has shaped Darrian thought ever since..." (emphasis mine).


Hans

 

[jatay3]

Why would the Darrians buy into the Imperial hysteria? I can see them toning down the public use of psionics out of concern for their Imperial neighbors, but there's no reason why they would stigmatize the use of psionics. Just don't tell when there's an Imperial around.


Hans

I can see why the Imperial's might have a point. Unregulated use of psionics would be the ultimate threat to freedom. People couldn't be sure their thoughts aren't being watched.

 

[Ishmael]

Personally I believe that the overwhelming majority of low-population worlds are outposts of one kind or another. There will be exceptions, but they'll be rare. So people are born elsewhere, go there for some years, and return to their homeworld. IMO.

if memory serves me correctly, the pop number refers to permanent residents and not transients. I guess it all depends on the turnover rates for outpost populations. I agree that most lo-pop worlds are outposts much like McMurdo station, but I also think the situation will not be nearly as rare as you believe. Actually, I suspect that noone considered this particular situation before for the OTU and so noone considered its ramifications on interstellar society.

It's only unfortunate if one ignores the fact that geneering becomes safe and easy at TTL9 (At least IIRC. If I'm wrong, please assume I meant TL<whenever geneering becomes safe and easy>).

You miss my point, which is that in order for recessives to show up in a population in significant numbers, you need several generations of inbreeding. By the time the Blue Darrians manifest, the Maghiz will be long over and anyone who is alive was born and grew up with the life-or-death post-Maghiz problems solved (one way or another) a century before.

IMO, regardless of when Trav tech says geneering is safe and easy, there is no guarantee that the Darrian would use it. And if blue darrians exist before that point, then society would definitely have decided whether they are poor unfortunates to be cured or else defects to be isolated to prevent their defects from contaminating pure darrians. Either way, non-blue darrians would share an air of superiority over the unfortunates. Can they guarantee to have 'cured' ALL the poor unfortunates? what if there were some blue-darrians that didn't want to be cured for whatever reason. Or if there was a link between psionics and the recessive gene, would they cure them at all and wreck any psionic potential the poor unfortunates had?

I also feel you are grossly underestimating how long it would take post-Maghiz darrians to replace the lost 80% of their population while rebuilding from scratch ALL the lost infrastructure and production centers. Keep in mind how long it took worlds to drag themselves out of the long night which was far less catastrophic than having your world's face scorched off.

There's plenty of room in the Traveller Universe for exiting backgrounds. Why mess with one of the few descriptions we have of a culture that differs from the bog-standard thirteen-to-the-dozen Earth clone?

Because real events show that it should be possible. The Maghiz gives a near perfect basis for it occurring. I feel my ideas fit basic behavior better than treating darrians as insipid elf-people-in-space. It makes visiting darrian space a bit more nervous-making ( exciting). And it adds something NEW to the tired old materials which get republished again and again, sometimes verbatim without wrecking canon the way some things might ( like applying trophic level effects to Aslan food production of Kleiber's Law to K'kree food requirements ).

It might, but it doesn't. Check Darrians p. 15.
"...the philosophical premise that has shaped Darrian thought ever since..." (emphasis mine).

Frankly, that is a naive stance to take. I am certain we could both take from the real world, a country's ideals as espoused by their founding fathers and still find crap that was done by the same people claiming to follow those ideals.
Canon just applies a very broad trait to billions in such a way as to make it simply a crude stereotype, which is hardly the way to make any race more than cardboard cutouts.

At least you didn't say that blue darrians are impossible in canon terms...just that they'd be 'fixed' by now.
And at least you can see that the Darrians are Finlandized.

 

[ThunderChilde]

What pray tell do you mean by Finlandized?

Go ahead and change the Darrians into goose stepping racial purity militants or whatever you please. Its your TU after all.

To argue that that a very different branch of humanity looks like any other is a poor arguement. Why do you need a thrill from a deviant and dangerous sub cultural element of the Darrians?

Mentally they are different from the rest of Humaniti, Culturally, likewise, they share little with the rest of Humaniti. They ARE different in a unique way. Why does this drive you to create what isn't there?

 

[rancke]

if memory serves me correctly, the pop number refers to permanent residents and not transients.

Usually, although there are canonical examples of UWPs that have been explained by roping in transient populations. However, there's no definition of 'permanent' and 'transient'. If someone travels to an outpost, stays there for several years, and is replaced by another when he leaves, I'd say he counts as permanent for practical purposes.

Also, there are canonical examples of populations being explained as outpost personnel.

IMO, regardless of when Trav tech says geneering is safe and easy, there is no guarantee that the Darrian would use it. And if blue darrians exist before that point, then society would definitely have decided whether they are poor unfortunates to be cured or else defects to be isolated to prevent their defects from contaminating pure darrians.

Or, a third possibility, defects that are no big deal and should be treated just as you treat diabetes, albinism, and myopia.

Either way, non-blue darrians would share an air of superiority over the unfortunates.

Why? Do you feel superior to people with diabetes or less than perfect eyesight? Do you feel superior to blue humans, for that matter?

Can they guarantee to have 'cured' ALL the poor unfortunates? what if there were some blue-darrians that didn't want to be cured for whatever reason.

Then they wouldn't fix it. But either way I see no reason why they would stigmatize it.

I also feel you are grossly underestimating how long it would take post-Maghiz darrians to replace the lost 80% of their population while rebuilding from scratch ALL the lost infrastructure and production centers.

Since I didn't estimate how long that would take, I can hardly have underestimated it. What I estimated was how long it would take for the post-Maghiz emergency to last. Which would be until everybody died out or until the number of people fell to equal the carrying capacity of the land they lived on. Either way that's not going to take more than a year or two.

Because real events show that it should be possible.

Of course it's possible. That's not the point. The point is that it's possible that it not happen. Darrian is the world where it didn't.

At least you didn't say that blue darrians are impossible in canon terms...just that they'd be 'fixed' by now.
And at least you can see that the Darrians are Finlandized.

For those kind words of praise and encouragement, I thank you.


Hans

 

[Ishmael]

What pray tell do you mean by Finlandized?

This came from comments that Mr.Ranke made concerning views about psionics among the darrians.

Why would the Darrians buy into the Imperial hysteria? I can see them toning down the public use of psionics out of concern for their Imperial neighbors, but there's no reason why they would stigmatize the use of psionics. Just don't tell when there's an Imperial around.

This sort of behavior is textbook Finlandization where a polity follows the will of powerful neighbors even if it does not fully endorse the stronger country's will.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finlandization

Go ahead and change the Darrians into goose stepping racial purity militants or whatever you please. Its your TU after all.

...Actually, I merely described how they might be discriminated against and used a touch of psionics to give a reason for 'magic' witch folktales, etc ( and a nod to the dark elf trope ). I just pushed it further for fun because of phrases such as "a subject for study, regulation, and utilization" and "...unwanted recessives would be eliminated.", and the hypocrisy of mouthing the words "Every living thing has a right to live according to its own nature." while happily changing the form of that nature when it doesn't conform to the accepted standard.
...Cold and stoic while experimenting on their own kind like a mad scientist, does not necessarily equate to "goose stepping racial purity militants", although the rush to use genetic engineering to make them normal again is closer to 'racial purity' than not. When the Darrians were studying genetics, who did they experiment on, hmmm?

To argue that that a very different branch of humanity looks like any other is a poor arguement. Why do you need a thrill from a deviant and dangerous sub cultural element of the Darrians?

Mentally they are different from the rest of Humaniti, Culturally, likewise, they share little with the rest of Humaniti. They ARE different in a unique way. Why does this drive you to create what isn't there?

Why is it a poor argument? Ancient China, the Olmecs, the Inuit and Bedouin all have different cultures and mindsets quite different from each other yet as individuals, they all show similar behavior in terms of satisfying certain needs such as eating, shelter, sex, for example. In fact, the differences in culture reflect the different approaches and conditions for satisfying those needs. The Darrians are human and thus have the same needs as other humans. The differences come from their different approach to satisfying those same needs. To make them different just for the sake of making them different without accounting for that bit of behavioral science ends in simply slapping a couple of lame , 2-dimensional "alien" characteristics to the entire homogeneous race where there are no internal conflicts within that race regardless of their situation. and THAT is how to make cardboard stereotype races.