Carbines vs. Rifles

[Uncle Bob]

I would call the Roman Army an imperial force, but much army were auxilliari, locally raised troops with idiosyncratic arms. Slingers from Rhodes, archers from Libya, light cavalry from Numidia and heavy cavalry from Sarmatia.

Of course, the legions and the Navy (including the Marines) had weapons of similar pattern, made in state factories. There were still local differences though. For example, mail armor was standard almost everywhere, but the iconic segmented armor was only in Europe and only for a century or so

 

[far-trader]

And mercenaries Uncle Bob, don't forget the mercs

Also a "regular" force of irregulars in the Traveller Imperium.

 

[epicenter00]

Roman Auxilia really were what we'd call "mercenaries." That didn't prevent them from giving years of loyal service (or not), land grants (or not), etc. For a variety of reasons, especially in the United States, people look down on mercenaries as being, well, mercenary. That is, they'll switch sides at a moment's notice, stab you in the back as soon as you turn away and carry your womenfolk off, etc.

For centuries, though, mercenary work was an honorable profession - the perfect way for second sons and such to "get out of the house" and go do something with their lives instead of causing trouble to the heir, or tribes needing money (and who didn't) to get money. Entire tribes would hire themselves out to Rome for long periods (often until the men were too old or too few to fight) then be settled as a garrison in new lands.

Given there's so much influence of Rome on the 3I, I've always figured that like in Rome, weapons in the Imperium are standarized by Depot for the Marines and not over the entire Imperium. I've always imagined Marine units remain in a Domain for decades or centuries - when they're shifted, it's essentially another "permanent" posting. Given that, they might re-arm when transferred, but if they're just going 'next door' to help, they probably bring along enough spare parts and such supply them for the near-future. After that, you probably get like motely "quartermaster's nightmare" units using a mix of local and original weapons, leavened with the inevitable use of war prize weapons.

 

[far-trader]

Agreed, some mercs were honourable, and honoured. Not sure I'd say that all the Auxilia were Mercenaries in the traditional sense though. They were, or had a chance to be, elevated a little above the soldier-for-hire as I recall my history.

 

[far-trader]

My take, as we're still off topic here has always been equating the Traveller and Roman Imperial forces thusly:

Imperial Navy and Marines = Roman Legions

Imperial Army = Auxilia

...and Mercs are Mercs

 

[Golan2072]

An interesting fact is that many RL weapons that were called "Carbines" actually fitted the LBB1 "Rifle" in length (i.e. around 1,000mm as opposed to the Carbine's 750mm) - the SKS Carbine (1022mm) or the M1 Carbine (904mm).

 

[Todg]

It should also be noted that a carbine isn't necessarily a shortened rifle - the term predates the rifle. A carbine was a shortened musket. At one time, the design of shoulder arms was such that the combinedlength of a musket and bayonet was supposed to be aabout that of a pike - long enough to reach a mounted rider. The continued until about WWI. The German K98 mauser, was in fact considered a 'carbine' when compared to the G98.

Carbines haven't become longer, 'rifles' have become shorter. The typical military rifle today has a baarrel about 20 inches long. In WWII, it was closer to 24 inches, and in WWI the typical 'rifle' had a 26 inch barrel. Go figure.

For aa proper definition, you have to say that a carbine is a weapon that is too short to be used with bayonet against mounted soldiers.

Almost every modern military longarm is a rifled carbine.

 

[Border Reiver]

For aa proper definition, you have to say that a carbine is a weapon that is too short to be used with bayonet against mounted soldiers.

Or should we say a carbine is a long arm designed to be easily carried by mounted troops? That is the original definition after all.

 

[Anthony]

The proper definition is that a carbine is a weapon that gets called a carbine.

 

[Spiderfish]

Originally posted by Anthony:
The proper definition is that a carbine is a weapon that gets called a carbine.

So if if we call a leg a tail...

 

[Anthony]

The basic problem is that weapon naming is inconsistent, so setting a formal definition is rather hard.