HG2: Tigress Design: Volume of Components

[RainOfSteel]

High Guard 2

I was staring at the Tigress in Supplement 9 a minute ago, and some numbers started falling into place.

I seem to get the feeling I might be doing something wrong . . . given how many people have looked at this before, but bear with me.

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">. Factor % of Vol
Power Plant: 8 8%
M-Drive: 6 17%
M-Fuel: 8%
J-Drive: 4 5%
J-Fuel: 40%
Bridge: 4%
Armor: 15 16%
.
Total: 98%</pre>[/QUOTE]After these systems take up 490,000 dTons, there's not a whole lot left.

What did I miss?

 

[Andrew Boulton]

For a start, M-drive is 5g (14%), and armour is 10 (11%).

 

[far-trader]

Interesting, ancient errata

I don't much care or notice the errors in these big ships since I don't use them but I figured there must be something wrong and yep there is.

While the text says Jump-4 the USP shows Jump-3 which (by saving 11%) probably fits better.

I also don't see a note about a backup bridge so there's another 2%

 

[RainOfSteel]

Ok, I didn't look at the USP, I looked at the text.

Thanks.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Andrew Boulton:
For a start, M-drive is 5g (14%), and armour is 10 (11%).

Are we looking at the same ship? The Tigress Dreadnaught from the LBB Supplement 9 - Fighting Ships (circa 1981). I see manuver 6 and armor F in mine.

 

[Hal]

Jump 4, Manuever 6, and Armor F in mine as well.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

Ignore me, I'm talking bollocks. I turned over two pages and looked at the Plankwell.

The J-4 in the text must be a typo since the fuel shown is only enough for J-3.

 

[mike wightman]

I think the Kokirrak has the same problem, jump 4 in the text but jump 3 and jump 3 fuel in the USP.

 

[Hal]

I'm glad you guys caught that - I would have been going nuts trying to fit current classes to FFW

 

[BetterThanLife]

As I recall the math and design though the kokirrak actually works as a Jump4.

 

[mike wightman]

Why's it only got fuel for jump 3 then
bridge 2%
jump4 5%
maneuver6 17%
power plant A 10%
armour12 13%
jump4 fuel 40%
(pp fuel 10% - missing)

That's 97%

I suppose it could use droptanks

 

[BetterThanLife]

Well I guess the math doesn't work.

I must be getting old my memory isn't what it used to be.

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Why's it only got fuel for jump 3 then
bridge 2%
jump4 5%
maneuver6 17%
power plant A 10%
armour12 13%
jump4 fuel 40%
(pp fuel 10% - missing)

That's 97%

I suppose it could use droptanks

 

[Theophilus]

You all know this same question about the Tigress/Kokkiraks being jump-3 comes up about once a year. I never realized there were so many Supp 9's still out there.

 

[RainOfSteel]

They sort of got reprinted . . .

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by Theophilus:
You all know this same question about the Tigress/Kokkiraks being jump-3 comes up about once a year. I never realized there were so many Supp 9's still out there.

I've been a member of these boards for just over a year now and this is the first time I can remember this question coming up
I could have missed it, or it could have been hidden within another topic I suppose. Or it is a question that has come up at SJGs JTAS, or the TML. Neither of which I read because I don't like the structure of their forums

Anyway, back to topic.

Supplement 9 is usually available on ebay for a resonable price, and, as RainOfSteel says, the Supplements reprint is on sale.

 

[mike wightman]

Something else just struck me.

If the Tigress and Kokirrak are only jump 3 (as their fuel and construction breakdown under HG indicate) then both GURPS:Starships and Power Projection:Fleet have the wrong jump number.

(I note that the GURPS version is only maneuver 2 as well)

So what is the fix?

Use the USP stats and lower the jump number to 3?

Assume the use of drop tanks to maintain jump 4?

Re-design the ships to have jump 4, with a reduced armour or maneuver/agility rating as a consequence?

Anyone know what the previous consensus has been?

 

[RainOfSteel]

I'm not sure, maybe a search of the archives can help.

However, I am sure that reducing Agility is not the way to go. Agility is a "universal" defense, effective in reducing hit chances equally against everything.

Having M-2 would mean the ship would be 4 points easier to hit. To me, this is unacceptable.

Not having J-4 would be a fairly severe restriction in jump mobility, reducing strategic effectiveness.

So the choices are to go with 25% reduction in jump mobility, or quite likely shave off 66% of the armor to A-5 (or even less).

In HG2, the Type T Meson Spinal mount rules the battlefield, and ignores Armor, so I'd probably choose to reduce Armor (and dump the backup bridge), although I'm not at all sure that would be enough.

In the next couple of days, I'll get around to duplicating the design on paper (or HGS, etc.)

 

[Antony]

When I did a TNE version of the Tigress I retained the jump-4 capability but had to reduce maneuver to 3G. If I was redesigning them I woul where possible retain the jump range and reduce maneuver. IMHO Traveller Battleships do not have to be fast but they do need to be responsive.

 

[Hal]

In my case, the reason I'm looking more closely at the ships from Suppliment #9 is because I'm getting ready to build GURPS ANALOGS to them - or build IMTU versions that hopefully fulfill the same function.

After I looked at the Lurenti class Battle Carrier and saw there were problems, then at other ships within the Imperium, I got to wondering just what else was wrong.

I'm still trying to figure out why in the HELL did they show us what the Ahzanti High Lightning class ship looks like - and then say it was nearly obsolete - and then not even tell what ship replaced it! Sheesh - the NERVE of these guys

By the by - is there anyone out there who owns a copy of GURPS GROUND FORCES who is willing to take a stab at building a spreadsheet detailing the TO&E of an Armored Regiment/battalion? What I'd really like to do is have something like this where we can assign costs to the various participants of the FFW and get a BROAD view of how much imperial money is invested in its war machine. Inquiring minds wanna know - ya know?

 

[PBI]

On the Tigress, it was just pointed out to me that maybe there was no mistake when it was designed as J-4 drives with J-3 tankage. Given that Imperial strategy is defensive, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that the ships were designed to use drop tanks to speed them to the area of fighting and then they go J-4 if they can find a base with enough d-tanks or hop around the combat zone at J-3.