mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
The drop tank scenario is my preferred option. A lot is made of drop tanks in the early OTU. Stand to reason that the IN would use them to quickly deploy their reserve fleets
HG2: Tigress Design: Volume of Components
- Thread starter RainOfSteel
- Start date
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
I searched the TML archives, and couldn't come up with any mention back to 2001. Archives from before that are not in searchable format (they're tucked away in zip files on a ftp server).
Well using fuel calculations from FF&S1 which I believe are more efficient for jump drives than earlier construction sequences? Jump Fuel = 5xVolume of Jump drive for a jump of its maximum rated capacity. A J4 drive for a Tigress takes up 5% of the volume (25,000 dt) and requires 125,000dt fuel for 1 Jump 4, or 31,250dt for a jump-1
For a Tigress to carry fuel for jump-1 in drop tanks means the drop tanks the size of cruisers (31,250 dt per jump number to be exact) So either this consists of a number of big tanks or lots of smaller ones.
For a Tigress to carry fuel for jump-1 in drop tanks means the drop tanks the size of cruisers (31,250 dt per jump number to be exact) So either this consists of a number of big tanks or lots of smaller ones.
Incidently I used the FF&S1 fuel calculations to make a point. Since HG2s jump fuel requirement is higher drop tank capacity will need to be higher.
On that basis since people are considering attaching drop tanks to battleships and under HG2 the Tigress needs 40% Jump fuel for jump 4 it would need 50,000dt of fuel carried in drop tanks for each jump number it requires.
Also in HG2 can drop tanks be used to provide part of the fuel for a jump (ie 75% of the jump fuel from inside the Tigress, 25% from drop tanks dropped prior to jump so as to make Jump-4)?
On that basis since people are considering attaching drop tanks to battleships and under HG2 the Tigress needs 40% Jump fuel for jump 4 it would need 50,000dt of fuel carried in drop tanks for each jump number it requires.
Also in HG2 can drop tanks be used to provide part of the fuel for a jump (ie 75% of the jump fuel from inside the Tigress, 25% from drop tanks dropped prior to jump so as to make Jump-4)?
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
A really nasty trick would be to use drop tanks for the full jump 4 (200,000t of fuel) leaving enough for a jump 3 tactical retreat 
Starts to get a bit expensive though
Starts to get a bit expensive though
That's how I generally design my raiding ships, though with J6 drop and J3 or 4 internal, to give a nice, initial J9-10 burstOriginally posted by Sigg Oddra:
A really nasty trick would be to use drop tanks for the full jump 4 (200,000t of fuel) leaving enough for a jump 3 tactical retreat
Starts to get a bit expensive though
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
It's FF&S1 and MT
They use the same reduced jump fuel formula.
They use the same reduced jump fuel formula.
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
Using HGS (thanks, Andrew) I can make a Tigress that has J-4 internal fuel, all the weapons, and the fighters.
Changes include (most seriously) armor-7, no aux bridge (did the Tigress ever have one? Supp. 9 is silent on that), and I got rid of the 500-man security battalion and just gave her a 50-man marine platoon for boarding defense (those 1000 crew in services should be able to slow any invaders down some).
She still has nearly 3,000 dtons left, so adding backups for computer and screens wouldn't be difficult.
In HG combat the armor would be a disadvantage, however in PP:F this would (just barely) rate as medium armor, equal to the protection found on all other Imperial DNs.
I can't see any way to get factor-15 armor into a Tigress, not with HG2. Of course, IIRC all of the "new" Supp. 9 designs (non-LBB2, that is) were done with HG1, which had several differences. Perhaps that's where they got the tonnage. I find that if I take my design and change all the 50-ton missile bays to 10-ton bays (thanks to the "User Defined" section of HGS) I can get my Tigress to factor-11 armor.
Anyone with a copy of HG1 want to check out a Tigress design?
Maybe the Imperial TL15 Jump-4 fleet is a myth.
Changes include (most seriously) armor-7, no aux bridge (did the Tigress ever have one? Supp. 9 is silent on that), and I got rid of the 500-man security battalion and just gave her a 50-man marine platoon for boarding defense (those 1000 crew in services should be able to slow any invaders down some).
She still has nearly 3,000 dtons left, so adding backups for computer and screens wouldn't be difficult.
In HG combat the armor would be a disadvantage, however in PP:F this would (just barely) rate as medium armor, equal to the protection found on all other Imperial DNs.
I can't see any way to get factor-15 armor into a Tigress, not with HG2. Of course, IIRC all of the "new" Supp. 9 designs (non-LBB2, that is) were done with HG1, which had several differences. Perhaps that's where they got the tonnage. I find that if I take my design and change all the 50-ton missile bays to 10-ton bays (thanks to the "User Defined" section of HGS) I can get my Tigress to factor-11 armor.
Anyone with a copy of HG1 want to check out a Tigress design?
Maybe the Imperial TL15 Jump-4 fleet is a myth.
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
I'm affaid that's they way I'd have to say it would go. The Imperium was pressing its front-line ships to all be M-6/J-4; the first for its defensive utility, and the second for strategic utility. There are many places in the Imperium, astrographically speaking, where only having your BatRons be J-3 would be quite a disadvantage.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
The Imperium's "front line" ships during the FFW were the Colonial Squadrons, of which only 4 are rated as BatRons. Two of these are jump 1, one is jump 3 and one is jump 4.
There are also 2 regular Navy BatRons in The Spinward Marches, and we know from TSMC that the Battle Rider 154th BatRon should be one of them.
The Imperial Navy reserve fleets consist of 16 jump 4 squadrons, 14 jump 3 squadrons, and 2 jump 2 squadrons, the majority of which should probably be considered to be Battle Rider/Tender BatRons.
There are also 2 regular Navy BatRons in The Spinward Marches, and we know from TSMC that the Battle Rider 154th BatRon should be one of them.
The Imperial Navy reserve fleets consist of 16 jump 4 squadrons, 14 jump 3 squadrons, and 2 jump 2 squadrons, the majority of which should probably be considered to be Battle Rider/Tender BatRons.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
What's wrong with the Depot in Deneb sector next door? It's only four jump4s away
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
This seems to be the case. All of the Colonial Reserve forces, available from turn 6, are jump 4. They must come from Deneb and the lower half of the Spinward Marches.
All of the regular Imperial Navy jump 3. BatRons must be rider squadrons because their jump number increases to 4 when they ar damaged (lose a rider or two?). The tender could make jump 4 and pick up the riders closer to the front line (possibly tenders from Corridor making jump 5 and then picking up riders at Depot/Deneb???).
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
Only 4 Imp BatRons . . . total?!? For the whole 5th Frontier War? The Sector Budget alone could build and maintain a lot more than that (I'm away from my home and books, and can't add up costs right at the moment), but the Sector Budget for the Spinward Marches was at least a 100 trillion credits, hmmm, possibly more, I'll have to check when I get home
That would weigh heavily, IMO, against using the FFW game fleet stats to represent what the Imperium actually has and can field.
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
But when retreating forces meet up with advancing reserves and pool their numbers, the "frontier" force will not be able to advance at the speed of the "reserve" forces.
Rain, what has to be remembered about FFW is that it does not portray the entire Marches, only the subsectors where the main fighting took place (approximately a half-sector) and as such only a fraction of the total Spinward Marches military is represented. Considering that forces not represented in the game are assumed to be conducting the offensive into the Sword Worlds and holding off the Vargr towards Corridor, the forces at the disposal of the Marches must be huge, especially when considering that the Colonial Rimward Reinforcements which arrive on week 6 of hostilities are probably what could be spared (and are a huge force, consisting of 6 Batrons and probably a dozen or so Crurons, all at J4).
EDIT: Also, the 4 BatRons referred to in the original post are the colonial BatRons - Jewell, Efate, Porozlo, and Zivijie. There are also 2 Imperial BatRons present in the immediate combat area, with the rest in the reserve.
EDIT: Also, the 4 BatRons referred to in the original post are the colonial BatRons - Jewell, Efate, Porozlo, and Zivijie. There are also 2 Imperial BatRons present in the immediate combat area, with the rest in the reserve.
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
(3 hours later): I'm home, the budget for the Spinward Marches I run IMTU is 41.6 Trillion. Say, about 8-10 Trillion out of the Sector for the Military. The Imperial Budget is 2.1 Quadrillion under this (with the Emperor's personal cut at 21 Trillion; nobles, eat your hearts out!). Hmm, even at 20% on the IN, divided by 19 Main Sectors, for about 22.4 Billion in military contributions per Sector from the top. Hmmm, that was quite a bit less than I thought, and a bit larger percentage that I wanted to hazard. This will bear some thinking on.
