Jump capable ships less than 100 tons

[Cryton]

I was told, but can not give you any links or first hand quotes, that Mark Miller himself de-cannonised both Jump Torps and ships with J-Drives under 100 tons in the OTU.

As for myself, I have been toying with using the J-torps in my proto Traveller setting. Havent made a final decision yet.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I may try my hand at a small write up of unofficialdom.

I remember J-torps beng discussed several times over, but for the life of me I can't remember what all was said and such.

 

[Cryton]

I may try my hand at a small write up of unofficialdom.

I remember J-torps beng discussed several times over, but for the life of me I can't remember what all was said and such.

Go for it!

 

[Whipsnade]

I may try my hand at a small write up of unofficialdom.

Do it. I'm sure everyone will find it useful.

I remember J-torps beng discussed several times over, but for the life of me I can't remember what all was said and such.

There isn't much to remember because it's all mostly IMTU stuff. The actual canonical information is pretty sparse.

A:4 simply mentions that the Leviathan carries a certain number of jump message torpedoes. That's it. Nothing about size, range, cost, none of it. Just a sentence or two saying X number of jump torpedoes are in the missile magazine and they can carry messages.

I took a quick look at SS:3 and I was mistaken. There's nothing about jump message torpedoes there that I found. There's a bit on missiles being used to carry messages and/or small packages, but nothing about missiles jumping.

TNE's FF&S may have something, but I don't have it handy.

You should just wing it. Pick a size, scale down the drives in LBB:2 or HG2 to fit, and write it up.

 

[Greylond]

For "Jump Torps" why not just have a bare framework of a computer/AI bridge and a Jumpdrive and strap enough "Jump Torps" to it in a leech/host style configuration.

 

[BlackBat242]

We always viewed it as "the physics of jumpspace are such that the smallest jump field that can be created is that which would encompass 100dt".

You can create a jump-ship which actually displaces less than 100dt... but you still need to install engines to create a 100dt jump field, which means you still need 10dt jump fuel per jump number you want.

If the engines and fuel HAVE to be for a 100dt ship, why build something smaller?

Then also, if you insist on a jump grid (something which only appeared well after Bk 5 came out), that jump grid will need to encompass 100dt volume in order to work at all... giving rise to the need to install an expandable jump grid outside the hull of your <100dt ship!



Note that this did not prevent me from designing, purely as a thought exercise, a TL14 66dt jump 2 ship using HG2 (CT)!

Drives: J2 - 2 tons; M3 - 5.3 ton (-2ep); PP3 - 8 tons (+4ep)
Fuel: Jump - 13.2 tons; PP/Man - 4 tons
Bridge: 20 tons
Computer: model 3; 3 tons (-1ep)
Armor: factor 2; 2 tons
Cargo: main 3 tons; hidden .5 tons
Staterooms: 1 - 4 tons
Turret (1): 2x pulse lasers factor 2 (-1ep) - 1 ton
Total: 66 tons

 

[atpollard]

If the engines and fuel HAVE to be for a 100dt ship, why build something smaller?
Total: 66 tons

Just picking a nit and answering this question with one shot.

In CT LBB2, a 10 dT JD A with 20 dT of Jump Fuel will 'move' a 200 dT hull at J1 and a 100 dT hull at J2. Following that linear progression, it should 'move' a 66 dT hull at J3 and a 50 dT hull at J4.

[Although a 50 dT ship can't fit the JD/MD/PP-A plus fuel plus 20 dT bridge plus a stateroom, so it is more of a thought experiment than a potential design in CT ... T5 allows 10 dT bridges and Mongoose has a 'compact' option, so a 50 dT courier may be more viable in other flavors of Traveller than it is in Classic.]

 

[whartung]

Well, for a quick fun thing, in TNE there is no volume limitation, there is a minimum size of jump machinery, but not of the ship itself.

That said, you can squeeze a J2 drive in 49 m^3 (3.5 dT), with fuel, into a Module and have 25 dT remaining for cargo (or any other requirements, though FF&S apparently has no control, computer, or external power requirements for a jump drive) for a the 50 dT Modular Cutter.

So, that could be fun.

 

[Carlobrand]

This is reminding me of the jump shuttle used to make SDBs jump-capable, just applied to boats. A bit inefficient, but if you've got some reason to want a smaller craft to flit about in, it works:

Under Book 2 rules: standard 100t hull with a jump-A/maneuver-A/pp-A set (15 dTons), fuel (40 dTons), bridge (20 dTons), 1-bis computer (1 dTon), hardpoint (1 dTon), and - instead of staterooms and such - a mating dock for a 20-ton launch with its own staterooms and provisions for ship control to be routed to the launch when docked. 3 tons left over for cargo. Insert an autopilot program for the ship to hold orbit and maybe come when called. (I'd use a gig instead of the launch, but the gig only has 3 dTons of internal space to play with. Book 2 doesn't offer me a way to play with boat design.)

Under High Guard rules:
Nice cheap 100dT partially streamlined close structure (permits wilderness refueling), jump-2 (3 dTons), PP-2 (variable), maneuver-1 (2 dTons), fuel (22 dTons), bridge (20 dTons), 1-bis computer (1 dTon), hardpoint (1 dTon), remaining space by TL: TL11=45, TL13=47, TL15=49. Again: a dock, no staterooms, provisions for ship control to be routed to the docked craft, insert an autopilot program for the ship to hold orbit and come when called. Takes a 40 dTon pinnace with some cargo space (or a craft of up to 60 dT at TL 15 if you cut it to jump-1, or add a couple of staterooms and just have a normal little ship with a 40-dT boat). Cost: TL11=MCr43.5, TL13=MCr37.5 TL15=MCr31.5 plus the cost of the carried craft.

 

[mike wightman]

Jump torpedoes were first mentioned in 1977 edition LBB2.

Adventure 4 was the only other place they were included in an OTU write up. They were then hit by the retcon hammer...

 

[Icosahedron]

I've had jump capable Small Craft for thirty years, using LBB5.

Like Messrs Pollard and BlackBat, I rule that all jump ships use the 100dt drive and fuel - ie by HG2 2dt drive and 10dt fuel. Also, any jump capable ship must use 4dt staterooms - 2dt small craft ones won't do.

By this means, the smallest jump ship possible is an unmanned 15dt "SOS beacon". A 20dt version allows for an additional 5dt cargo pod. You can get a 25dt jump-capable cabin cruiser and a 30dt jump-capable lifeboat.

The SOS beacon and the lifeboat answer BlackBat's question of why build small jumpers - you can carry them aboard small ships and they may save your life if you misjump.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I like the lifeboat thing. I never considered it before. Then again it sounds like something that would manifest itself at tech levels above 15.

 

[Icosahedron]

It's at TL15.
For anyone interested:

15T Messenger Buoy (sorry the joke doesn’t work with American pronunciation).
J-Drive 2T
Fuel 10T
PP 1T
PP Fuel 1T
Comp-1 1T
The computer automates the jump and carries messages (eg Mayday).

20T Delivery Buoy (likewise).
J-Drive 2T
Fuel 10T
PP 1T
PP Fuel 1T
Comp-1 1T
Cargo (5xELB?) 5T
Possible evacuation of up to 20 pre-frozen personnel to await rescue.

25T Star Boat
J-Drive 2T
Fuel 10T
PP 1T
PP Fuel 1T
Comp-1 1T
Cabin 4T
Bridge 5T
Cargo 1T
Budget starfaring.

30T Interstellar Lifeboat (41 souls)
J-Drive 2T
Fuel 10T
PP 1T
PP Fuel 1T
Comp-1 1T
10xELB 10T
1x ELB/Couch 1T
Cargo (survival gear) 4T
By auto-waking the pilot, there is an opportunity to refuel and rejump. Safer variants with indefinite range incorporate a bridge and cabin. The 30T hull is also used for a twin-cabin version of the Star Boat.

 

[BlackBat242]

I've had jump capable Small Craft for thirty years, using LBB5.

Like Messrs Pollard and BlackBat, I rule that all jump ships use the 100dt drive and fuel - ie by HG2 2dt drive and 10dt fuel. Also, any jump capable ship must use 4dt staterooms - 2dt small craft ones won't do.

By this means, the smallest jump ship possible is an unmanned 15dt "SOS beacon". A 20dt version allows for an additional 5dt cargo pod. You can get a 25dt jump-capable cabin cruiser and a 30dt jump-capable lifeboat.

The SOS beacon and the lifeboat answer BlackBat's question of why build small jumpers - you can carry them aboard small ships and they may save your life if you misjump.

I like the lifeboat thing. I never considered it before. Then again it sounds like something that would manifest itself at tech levels above 15.

Absolutely! And I would not limit it by TL... if it fits it can be built & used. Lower TLs would benefit less, though.

Icoso, you have just enhanced safety aboard large passenger liners in my TU... and boosted the 'dirty tricks" capabilities of clandestine operators galaxy-wide!

That 15dt message capsule can be used to send off a log from a ship facing destruction, distress call from a damaged ship, send warning of enemy ships, etc... it would launch from a missile bay or special fitting via chemical thrusters (or a small grav pack "pushing" against the launching ship's hull) to get it past the 100d limit of the host ship. The pack would drop off as soon as it either reaches a set velocity or distance.

 

[atpollard]

It's at TL15.
For anyone interested:

30T Interstellar Lifeboat (41 souls)
J-Drive 2T
Fuel 10T
PP 1T
PP Fuel 1T
Comp-1 1T
10xELB 10T
1x ELB/Couch 1T
Cargo (survival gear) 4T
By auto-waking the pilot, there is an opportunity to refuel and rejump. Safer variants with indefinite range incorporate a bridge and cabin. The 30T hull is also used for a twin-cabin version of the Star Boat.

Excellent ideas.
Just name it the 'Delivery Boy' and it will be one of those things, like the six-legged 'poni' express, that just got twisted in the translation over time).
['Messenger Buoy' and 'Delivery Buoy' were good puns. ]

Of course the obvious needs to be pointed out ... you have 'IMTU' the 20 dT Bridge requirement (your designs assume that a 20 dT bridge is not REQUIRED for jump).

I have no problem with that and (IMTU) I use 10 dT as the minimum 'piloted' jump-capable bridge and half of that (5 dT) as an 'unpiloted' jump bridge. I would also see a market for ships that fly themselves with no crew ... just wealthy passengers who tell the ship where they want to go and trust the robot vehicle to get them there ... just like the drive itself cars just coming available today [in real life, on the road and legal in 3 states (USA)].

 

[Icosahedron]

Glad to be of service.

The Messenger Buoy can also be 'seeded' in deep space and programmed to return when triggered. A trigger could be when it's pinged by active sensors, when it detects a nuclear detonation, when it detects a jump-flash (if you have them) etc.

Yes, I've tweaked the jump-control rules. IMTU you still need a bridge on 100dt+ ships (probably a legal requirement under Construction & Use regs) but the small craft may be jumped by a computer alone. I decided that if a computer is used without a bridge, the computer is classed as one level lower (as per LBB5) and a Model-0 has half the capacity of a Model-1. So you need a 1bis (becoming 0bis) to jump, since both Jump and Navigate need to be in the CPU together (hence you can have bis models (or at least the 1bis) contrary to LBB5).
All small craft bridges use the standard small craft 20% / 4dt rule.

WRT self-piloting, I devised a computer program called Persona.
Size = Total skills, Cost = Total skills MCr, Max skill level = 1.
Program it with Carousing-1, give it a female voice and while away those lonely hours on your Type S. But you can also program it with Pilot-1, Gunner-1, etc, if your computer is big enough. It can be an expensive but useful additional crew member.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Okay; two versions; linear based on a mish mash of old Book-2 and upcoming T5

Base Costs
Hull---Tons---Configuration--------Squares----Cubes------A----B
-----------C--B--U--S--A--L ------------------------------------
--A---100--1--2--2--3--4--4--------200-------400-------2---- 10
-(-A)--75---------------------------150 -------300-------1.5---7.5
-(-B)--50---------------------------100--------200-------1.0---5
-(-C)--25----------------------------75--------100-------75----2.5
-(-D)--13/10-------------------------50---------75-------.50---1.25

Or, using Darkwing's very cunning logic, here's an alternative method;

Cost Multiplyers;
Corporate Lab;-------+50%-------per--- 10% reduction of mass
Major Government;---+200%------per--- 10% reduction of mass
Individual;-----------+1d6 x 25%--per---10% reduction of mass

Individual => a single individual or small group of researchers with financial resources to develop their own private effort.

p.s. using hypertext table stuff got too cumbersome.

 

[BlackBat242]

You only need the bridge if you are going to be navigating through jump and/or normal space.

Remember, the "bridge" in CT is the combined volume of sensors, navigation equipment, manual flight controls, walking and seating space in the actual "ship's control room", and so on.

If your jump drive is operating off a purchased pre-programmed course (or one downloaded from a normal jump ship's computer), then you don't need sensors or manual controls for the jump drive.

If you don't have a maneuver drive (as Icosahedron's vessels don't) then you don't need sensors manual controls for that either.

If you don't have the capability of "flying" the vessel, then you don't need a control room.

All you need is an acceleration couch with minimal visual sensors and short-range radar, and a set of minimal controls for chemical thrusters... basically what is in the cockpit/nose of a modern single-seat fighter.

 

[Greylond]

All you need is an acceleration couch with minimal visual sensors and short-range radar, and a set of minimal controls for chemical thrusters... basically what is in the cockpit/nose of a modern single-seat fighter.

Not sure about any other version of the game but MgT has lists a Cockpit as being 1.5 tons per crewman. They also have a "Control Cabin" which is 3 tons per crewman. Both are Small Craft options in High Guard.

 

[atpollard]

Okay; two versions; linear based on a mish mash of old Book-2 and upcoming T5

What are the A and B in the last two columns?