Cost multipliers IIRC.
Jump capable ships less than 100 tons
- Thread starter Blue Ghost
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Icosahedron
SOC-14 1K
Doh! I was describing them from (flawed) memory. The two smallest ones (the buoys) have no M-drive, but the others do (1dt each).
In CT small craft can be flown using just a computer and a couch (or a single-occupant ELB acting as a couch) there is no cockpit component. but you're limited to (36?) hours duration.
Actually, IIRC, there is nothing in the rules that says the computer is necessary, either. I once allowed an 'orbital aircraft' to be built with neither bridge nor computer, but I required frequent pilot rolls. That one was flown by the seat of his pants...
I think I charged double for the couch to account for the basic controls and instrumentation.
Wha?? Where is it written that the jump drive uses manual controls? That idea actually scares the willies out of me. The computer handles the jump using the Jump program, whether from a flight plan generated from its own Generate program or from a program purchased at the starport (or downloaded from the flagship, in the case of the Navy). Always has. I don't even want to begin to think of human reaction times being in that loop. (And, that has never mattered a whit in terms of how much bridge is needed.)
For that matter, there's nothing in the CT/HG rules that says you need less bridge if you don't have a jump drive - though in MegaTrav you do need less control equipment if you don't have one, all other things being equal. On the other hand, MegaTrav's control systems include a chunk dedicated to monitoring and controlling such things as the power plant, environmental controls, communications, and so forth. One presumes that ditching the maneuver drive does not mean you can live without power plant and environmental controls.
Scary. I can't imagine trying to maintain orbit by eyeball and short-range radar. Our modern adventurers-in-space accomplished it by depending heavily on ground-based radar, a crew of earthbound controllers, and a very thoroughly prepared and rigidly followed flight plan.
I'm presuming this is expanding on Leviathan's jump torpedoes, which are described as consisting of "little more than a jump drive, fuel and a
recording unit." I have to assume that "little" includes some sort of processor feeding jump instructions to the jump drive.
The nearest comparable manned canon ship, the Xboat, has no maneuver drive but definitely has a bridge. Canon description calls for it to have a Jump-B (15 dTons), jump fuel for jump-4 (40 dTons), no power plant (they were saying the jump drive produced its own power back then), no maneuver drive, a "standard bridge ... complemented by a Model/4 computer" (20+4 dTons), two staterooms (8 dTons), and a dTon of cargo. That comes to 88 dTons, with the rest being "massive communicators, and message data banks." No maneuver drive and no power plant, but they felt obliged to stick to the bridge rule.
Ico's amended that to allow small jumpcraft to function with a computer at reduced rating in lieu of the bridge, which is an interesting mod (though the whole idea of jump craft of under 100 dT bothers me, but that's just reflex). Given that it works in High Guard, I'd say he covers his bases properly with that one, though it does eliminate the need for an Xboat.
And, I was under the impression a modern fighter had quite a bit more in the way of controls than what you're describing.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
What's to stop you twisting this small craft can jump paradigm and building 95t jump capable shuttles?
The 16t saving in bridge space over a 100t ship gives it 11t of extra space compared with the 100t ship.
The 16t saving in bridge space over a 100t ship gives it 11t of extra space compared with the 100t ship.
Mongoose Traveller, T5, and perhaps others already allow this 'cheat' in as far as they allow a 10 dTon bridge on a 100 dTon ship.
An argument can be made that the iconic CT Scout ship has always played a little fast and loose with bridge tonnage ... If I can use the bridge for crew commons and corridors through crew country, why can't I just eliminate it, use the stateroom tonnage for those areas and increase the cargo capacity.
I have personally been a fan of using a straight 2% for bridge at all sizes with a few 'minimum' thresholds ... Like 1.5 dT for a 1 seat cockpit (couch and computer), 3-4 dT for a 2-3 seat cockpit, 10 dT for a jump capable bridge [all strictly IMTU preferences.]
Icosahedron
SOC-14 1K
Bad Karma. And believe me, you don't want to be saddled with bad Karma IMTU... :devil:
Why? What could possible go wrong?(he said naively)
Isn't that a quote from the designer of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge? :rofl:
Bad Karma.
I don't know about that I seem to remember he comes equipped with a mucking big sniper rifle and that my friends can come in handy.
BlackBat242
SOC-14 1K
In a manner of speaking... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xox9BVSu7Ok
Heh, we studied the Tacoma bridge briefly in high school physics, and then again in the 90s when I pursued an engineering degree. I wish I'd raised my hand during lecture; "Excuse me, professor, did they skim for fuel or buy at a type-C starport?" 
You know, when I first read about the allegedly-streamlined Tigress in Supp 9 SO many years ago (32? Crap, I'm OLD), it reminded me of that bridge. Like, when you build something DESPITE aerodynamics, rather than because of them. Works for my 1987 Z-24, too - square face into the wind. "Barn door", anyone? 
Only looked at this a few times, never really got my old gaming group into Traveller let alone building ships, something to do with a dragon in a dungeon apparently.
However I like the idea that the J1 drive in the tables is as small as a functional drive can be made - you can fit it to something smaller, but its not getting smaller, or going to burn any less fuel, but you can do it, just that 100T is the point where the smallest drive finds the largest hull it can shift.
However I like the idea that the J1 drive in the tables is as small as a functional drive can be made - you can fit it to something smaller, but its not getting smaller, or going to burn any less fuel, but you can do it, just that 100T is the point where the smallest drive finds the largest hull it can shift.
When I started wondering how the dragon was feeding itself in the middle of a dungeon, and where the doo was going, I realized it was time to move up to a different game.
This thread is really dedicated towards the exploration of how you might create small things that are jump capable, and how to address them in the rules for a game session. As to how official they might be is kind of up to your house rules.
I think it's plausible in a sci-fi sort of way to make jump-this or jump-that. Imagine a "jump suit" (to coin a phrase) that's skin tight, and you wear under your regular clothes. Okay, that's kind of out there, but, in Traveller speak, if you wanted to manifest something like that, how would you create it, and would it cost? More specifically I was wondering about ships that could carry two or three people from system to system that wasn't the size of a small apartment complex. That really does bother me every so little, and always has about this game. But, it is what it is.
I just figured there'd an alternative somewhere.
I think it's plausible in a sci-fi sort of way to make jump-this or jump-that. Imagine a "jump suit" (to coin a phrase) that's skin tight, and you wear under your regular clothes. Okay, that's kind of out there, but, in Traveller speak, if you wanted to manifest something like that, how would you create it, and would it cost? More specifically I was wondering about ships that could carry two or three people from system to system that wasn't the size of a small apartment complex. That really does bother me every so little, and always has about this game. But, it is what it is.
I just figured there'd an alternative somewhere.
Well like I said before, TNE FF&S has rules for this, as jump drives have only a minimum size of 2m^3. It's an experiment for the reader as to what the actual, smallest viable vehicle is under those rules.
Well, two cubic meters is still cubic meters. That's like the size of an expensive stainless steel refrigerator that you find in a high priced home, or two washer dryer combination appliances. That's still fairly large. I've not read TNE's ship design, and it's been eons since I glanced at FF&S. Does FF&S have rules for shrinking jump drives?
Imagine a Jump-implant. Before you say it's too out-there, look up Howard Myers' Econowar series. You can find it in "Creatures of Man", from Baen, edited by Eric Flint. One of these days I'm gonna run an Econowar game.
