Men, not Laws

[Carlobrand]

Undisclosed nothing. It has been a known fact that the Imperial Navy had J6 couriers since CT:Fighting Ships.

Oh, right, the fleet couriers. My bad, forgot.

It's also implied by the ship construction rules that civilians can build J6 ships, which in turn implies the existence of J6 commercial passenger liners between high-population worlds.

TL15 civilians, which limits it somewhat. Cost/benefit considerations may also set certain limits. A J6'er costs quite a bit and loses a big chunk of space for jump fuel. We have some hot fast combat jets nowadays, but the commercial stuff seems mostly quite happy with subsonic speeds.

Aramis did a cost/benefit analysis some time back. If I recall, you really gotta put aside the cargo and passenger cost rules so you can charge the rates that make express transport feasible. You can sideline cargo transport and do the buying and selling bit to make the money but, with the jump fuel rules, the mid-speed ships ends up carrying about as much cargo or more per month as the express runners, and they cost less. It's still more profitable to build a slower ship and take more time to get to market. Jump-6 is a specialty niche - but you're right, it probably exists between the higher pop worlds. A large enough population pair generates enough traffic to keep specialty flyers happy - assuming you let the rates float instead of mandating them.

... The politcal faction that Santanocheev belonged to started looking like idiots several years before he bacame their poster boy. Norris's petition to the Emperor reached him (the Emperor) in 1104 ...

I have no information on that. What did they do that was big enough to warrant the Emperor's attention on a remote sector three or four years before the shooting started, and why did it take him that long to make up his mind?

 

[Nathan Brazil]

Interesting the implications of centralized Imperial power and LACK of inter-world communications. Fighting against the waterflow so to speak. TNE goes into great detail on the "old" XBoat network vs. the XWeb network. There:

Public outrage at the blatant cynicism of the Third Imperium's maintenace of parallel jump-6 routes for the noble elite and jump-4 routes for the Great Unwashed spelled the end of jump-4 system. When everyone was equal to vulnerability to being snuffed out by Virus, there was no longer any excuse for seperate and unequal access to information.
In addition, the governing concepts behind the old Xboat network were long since obsolete. First of all, the system was too hierarchical. It made juddgements that certain worlds were more important than others and established routes to cover thos worlds. Worlds off these routes were penalized by receiving their information later. The Xboat network also assumed a linearity to the dissemination of information, i.e., that information was pushed from a central location out to the Imperial periphery in the same way that constant pressure is maintained in a water distribution syste. Both models were completely wrong-headed.
The Xboat network was therefore never a true information network. Rather, it was a control system rather than a communication system - it efficiently pushed instructions from the Imperial capital out to the domain, sector and subsector capitals where they could be carried out. The ability of one subsector duke to communicate with another was not addressed by the system, and that distinctively Imperial principle of centrally held absolute powere was forever discredited by the Civil War and Collapse.- Regency Sourcebook, pg.21

 

[rancke]

OTL15 civilians, which limits it somewhat. Cost/benefit considerations may also set certain limits. A J6'er costs quite a bit and loses a big chunk of space for jump fuel. We have some hot fast combat jets nowadays, but the commercial stuff seems mostly quite happy with subsonic speeds.

I once made up a number of similar ships running the gamut of jump ratings and calculated the true cost of shifting passengers and cargo each distance. J2 and J3 has the lowest per parsec cost; IIRC J6 has a per parsec cost roughly six times greater than the minimum. That limits freight to time-critical objects, but there are people who can afford to pay six times the minimum in order to get there in half the time, and the people who can afford something like that has a strong correlation to people who consider their time very valuable. I'm absolutely convinced that it would take a direct ban on J6 shipping to prevent the existence of J6 civilian shipping (a very unpopular ban among a group of very rich and thus very powerful people). On top of that, there's a canonical reference to Oberlindes owning J5 couriers, so even if J6 is banned, the news of Strephon's death would still have gotten to the Marches faster than the canonical story claims.

Aramis did a cost/benefit analysis some time back. If I recall, you really gotta put aside the cargo and passenger cost rules so you can charge the rates that make express transport feasible.

I take it for granted that the per-jump rule is broken. It may work well enough for running PC-crewed far traders, but if it existed, J3 and better passenger service would not be viable. So I take the existence of the Stellar Class and the Tukera Longliner as evidence that per jump prices are a game artifact (Although I've come up with a fix that allows per-parsec pricing and still keeps the Low, Medium, and High passages as is (well, almost as is)).

I have no information on that. What did they do that was big enough to warrant the Emperor's attention on a remote sector three or four years before the shooting started, and why did it take him that long to make up his mind?

I don't know exactly, but they did enough for Norris to petition the Emperor. It's in the DGP Grand Tour adventure Before the Imperium Throne in TD #9:

"Dates: [...] The starting date of this adventure is 066-1104." [TD9:4]

"If the characters strain their ears hard enough, they will hear what the [pseudo-reality hologram of Duke Norris] is saying. "Second, more personally I humbly request that Your Imperial Majesty grant me the authority to lead the defense of my territory. With the influx of Imperial troops and squadrons, there will naturally be gaggles of admirals gravitating to centers of action and power.

With the potential for normal channels of authority breaking down, I ask that I be named supreme commander of all forces on the frontier, that I may continue to direct the defense I've already begun." [T_D9:9]​

Hans

 

[rancke]

Interesting the implications of centralized Imperial power and LACK of inter-world communications. Fighting against the waterflow so to speak. TNE goes into great detail on the "old" XBoat network vs. the XWeb network. There:

"Public outrage at the blatant cynicism of the Third Imperium's maintenace of parallel jump-6 routes for the noble elite and jump-4 routes for the Great Unwashed spelled the end of jump-4 system."​

It's a case of GIGO. That quote is based on the assumption that the story of Norris getting the news of Strephon's death months before anyone else (including, mind you, every other member of the noble elite[*]) makes sense.

[*] Alternatively, that several hundred people (however many the 'noble elite' numbers) can keep a secret like the death of the Emperor for months.​

Hans

 

[Carlobrand]

... I'm absolutely convinced that it would take a direct ban on J6 shipping to prevent the existence of J6 civilian shipping (a very unpopular ban among a group of very rich and thus very powerful people). ... I take it for granted that the per-jump rule is broken. It may work well enough for running PC-crewed far traders, but if it existed, J3 and better passenger service would not be viable. So I take the existence of the Stellar Class and the Tukera Longliner as evidence that per jump prices are a game artifact ...

Me too, within my own TU, but it plays the devil with trying to figure trends for an OTU sector. I end up with "If A ...; If B ..." models.

Interesting the implications of centralized Imperial power and LACK of inter-world communications. Fighting against the waterflow so to speak. TNE goes into great detail on the "old" XBoat network vs. the XWeb network. There:

"Public outrage at the blatant cynicism of the Third Imperium's maintenace of parallel jump-6 routes for the noble elite and jump-4 routes for the Great Unwashed spelled the end of jump-4 system."

It's a case of GIGO. That quote is based on the assumption that the story of Norris getting the news of Strephon's death months before anyone else (including, mind you, every other member of the noble elite[*]) makes sense.
...

Which quote/story implies the direct ban you mention, although the reference to the Oberlindes courier - and therefore the likelihood that other major businesses make use of J5 for time-critical information flow - still undercuts that one. Although, there may still be a way if one posits an Imperial effort to shortcut through that mucking big gap in Corridor sector. Crossing it by way of small couriers refueling at a couple of strategically-placed huge tankers is remotely possible, though complicated and expensive, the kind of thing you'd only expect the military to do. Still doesn't give me more than a few weeks' edge, though.

I wonder sometimes - is it more important to folk to have a Traveller universe that satisfies the various canonical references or to have one that seems "realistic"? Not so worried from an MTU point of view - players come over, they need to adjust themselves to whatever the game master's planning. However, crafting something for public consumption and then finding it fails the test on a reference out of some source you don't own can be discouraging. Doubly discouraging is trying to satisfy the many conflicting references.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

Everyone's MTU is based on what canon sources they have available to them, what they hear in discussion, their own knowledge either in game or real world, then decisions on what makes sense. I have been fortunate to have been a sufficiently rabid player and collector to have a LOT of sources available. Hopefully my quotes bring more enlightened discussion. MTU tries to have it all fit, even when it doesn't as it is more fun.

Concerning communication, there is more in Regency Sourcebook that describes the XWeb as being a partnership between government and everyone else (businesses, universities, media and so on). The Regency as a whole provides the infrastructure (ships), schedules of couriers and "standards" for data. Everyone else pays into the system on a "piece by piece" basis. Built into the system is free space for public service (governmental stuff).

What makes XWeb different is that the stated goal is "one Xboat arriving every day at every world within six parsecs". Also stated is that the old Xboat network data load was much lower.

 

[rancke]

Everyone's MTU is based on what canon sources they have available to them, what they hear in discussion, their own knowledge either in game or real world, then decisions on what makes sense. I have been fortunate to have been a sufficiently rabid player and collector to have a LOT of sources available. Hopefully my quotes bring more enlightened discussion. MTU tries to have it all fit, even when it doesn't as it is more fun.

Oh, I try to make it all fit. I merely advocate ditching the bits that can't be made to fit. "If it works, don't change it; if it doesn't work, change it to something that does and stick to that from then on."

Concerning communication, there is more in Regency Sourcebook that describes the XWeb as being a partnership between government and everyone else (businesses, universities, media and so on). The Regency as a whole provides the infrastructure (ships), schedules of couriers and "standards" for data. Everyone else pays into the system on a "piece by piece" basis. Built into the system is free space for public service (governmental stuff).

That only works if the X-web provides the service the customers want (unless it's an enforced monopoly).

What makes XWeb different is that the stated goal is "one Xboat arriving every day at every world within six parsecs". Also stated is that the old Xboat network data load was much lower.

When originally built, the Xboat network's stated purpose was to get the information conveyed in the shortest practical time. Which at the time was based on J4 and IMO could approach something only a little less than 4 parsecs per week given an optimal use of J4 ships. By the Classic Era, the Xboat network was not only still using J4 ships, it also had an average speed of 2.6 parsecs per week. Evidently its purpose had changed. The official story is that it was to prevent everyone not a member of the Imperial elite from getting their information any faster than the Xboats could convey it. I submit that that story has more holes than a swiss cheese and stinks worse than overripe Stilton.


Hans