Shipboard Planetary Destructors
- Thread starter Captain Bob of the LEXX
- Start date
ChaserCaffey
SOC-12
Even when I got some of it wrong.Originally posted by Piper:
I think I have it now.
Thanks for the physics lesson and for your time and patience.
May I offer you a Physics-B-Gone stick? RCES issue, comes with this attractive logo and cut from genuine Aubani cypress, and it deals with inconvenient problems like that so nicely.
It's a darn shame though; meson guns sounded so cool.
*Thwack*
Just listen to that good, solid sound...
(Because yeah, meson guns are too cool to let go of)
ChaserCaffey
SOC-12
Even when I got some of it wrong.Originally posted by Piper:
I think I have it now.
Thanks for the physics lesson and for your time and patience.
May I offer you a Physics-B-Gone stick? RCES issue, comes with this attractive logo and cut from genuine Aubani cypress, and it deals with inconvenient problems like that so nicely.
It's a darn shame though; meson guns sounded so cool.
*Thwack*
Just listen to that good, solid sound...
(Because yeah, meson guns are too cool to let go of)
Mesons being a cover for another technology.
The traditional solution is that it is not Mesons that the weapon fires, but some other particle.
This of course falls down that meson guns don't act like anything currently known. Particles that do not interact with matter are a poor choice for a weapon.
My favorite is a ramafication of repulsor/tractor technology and grav plates. Intersecting gravity beams ala Schlock Mercenary Gravy Guns. This of course still corrupts hard science, but by being derived from the same breach does not create another.
The traditional solution is that it is not Mesons that the weapon fires, but some other particle.
This of course falls down that meson guns don't act like anything currently known. Particles that do not interact with matter are a poor choice for a weapon.
My favorite is a ramafication of repulsor/tractor technology and grav plates. Intersecting gravity beams ala Schlock Mercenary Gravy Guns. This of course still corrupts hard science, but by being derived from the same breach does not create another.
Mesons being a cover for another technology.
The traditional solution is that it is not Mesons that the weapon fires, but some other particle.
This of course falls down that meson guns don't act like anything currently known. Particles that do not interact with matter are a poor choice for a weapon.
My favorite is a ramafication of repulsor/tractor technology and grav plates. Intersecting gravity beams ala Schlock Mercenary Gravy Guns. This of course still corrupts hard science, but by being derived from the same breach does not create another.
The traditional solution is that it is not Mesons that the weapon fires, but some other particle.
This of course falls down that meson guns don't act like anything currently known. Particles that do not interact with matter are a poor choice for a weapon.
My favorite is a ramafication of repulsor/tractor technology and grav plates. Intersecting gravity beams ala Schlock Mercenary Gravy Guns. This of course still corrupts hard science, but by being derived from the same breach does not create another.
My favorite is that 'meson guns' are related to nuclear dampers in some way, since nuclear dampers seem to be able to affect decay rates of particles (though, like meson guns, nuclear dampers cannot actually work the way the rules say they work. Changing the strength of the strong nuclear force would result in death rays at least as fast as it resulted in nuclear dampers).
My favorite is that 'meson guns' are related to nuclear dampers in some way, since nuclear dampers seem to be able to affect decay rates of particles (though, like meson guns, nuclear dampers cannot actually work the way the rules say they work. Changing the strength of the strong nuclear force would result in death rays at least as fast as it resulted in nuclear dampers).
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
A weapon that fired two beams, one of neutrinos and one of antineutrinos, which intersect in the target, would produce effects like those described for a meson gun.
I've no idea how the neutinos could be collimated , focussed or directed - only gravity or the weak nuclear force could affect them.
I've no idea how the neutinos could be collimated , focussed or directed - only gravity or the weak nuclear force could affect them.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
A weapon that fired two beams, one of neutrinos and one of antineutrinos, which intersect in the target, would produce effects like those described for a meson gun.
I've no idea how the neutinos could be collimated , focussed or directed - only gravity or the weak nuclear force could affect them.
I've no idea how the neutinos could be collimated , focussed or directed - only gravity or the weak nuclear force could affect them.
jarednoble
SOC-6
It's interesting to get back into Traveller - I have a lot of CT, and a fair amount of MT. I was pretty much turned off of TNE because of the horrible hack-job they did to the background. While I appreciate the attempt to add some heightened tension to the previouly stable (and possibly stagnant) background, the creation of things like the sentient virus just seemed like poorly done cliches - it reduced my interest in actually checking out the rest of the product. Of course, by that time I rarely had the opportunity to play, so the motivation to spend more money on the game was kind of low.
Regarding Meson guns in general - I agree that they must be something very different from what is conjectured -they are certainly not any plain old mesons - but even then, the DSMG is a goofy thing. Thanks everyone for the reminding me about the Physics-B-Gon stick. Liberal whacks are being applied.
Regarding Meson guns in general - I agree that they must be something very different from what is conjectured -they are certainly not any plain old mesons - but even then, the DSMG is a goofy thing. Thanks everyone for the reminding me about the Physics-B-Gon stick. Liberal whacks are being applied.
jarednoble
SOC-6
It's interesting to get back into Traveller - I have a lot of CT, and a fair amount of MT. I was pretty much turned off of TNE because of the horrible hack-job they did to the background. While I appreciate the attempt to add some heightened tension to the previouly stable (and possibly stagnant) background, the creation of things like the sentient virus just seemed like poorly done cliches - it reduced my interest in actually checking out the rest of the product. Of course, by that time I rarely had the opportunity to play, so the motivation to spend more money on the game was kind of low.
Regarding Meson guns in general - I agree that they must be something very different from what is conjectured -they are certainly not any plain old mesons - but even then, the DSMG is a goofy thing. Thanks everyone for the reminding me about the Physics-B-Gon stick. Liberal whacks are being applied.
Regarding Meson guns in general - I agree that they must be something very different from what is conjectured -they are certainly not any plain old mesons - but even then, the DSMG is a goofy thing. Thanks everyone for the reminding me about the Physics-B-Gon stick. Liberal whacks are being applied.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
The idea is to focus them so they hit each other - I've no idea how to do it either - but get the cross sectional density high enough and
Oh, and I've read several of the papers about neutrino-antineutrino annihilation - google for them - the energy needed to generate them in the first place could be... difficult to find
Oh, and I've read several of the papers about neutrino-antineutrino annihilation - google for them - the energy needed to generate them in the first place could be... difficult to find
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
The idea is to focus them so they hit each other - I've no idea how to do it either - but get the cross sectional density high enough and
Oh, and I've read several of the papers about neutrino-antineutrino annihilation - google for them - the energy needed to generate them in the first place could be... difficult to find
Oh, and I've read several of the papers about neutrino-antineutrino annihilation - google for them - the energy needed to generate them in the first place could be... difficult to find
TheEngineer
SOC-14 1K
Essentially Mesons represent a group of particles and there are also some "exotic" Mesons (quark, anti-quark, gluon combinations ?) in real life physics, which do not fellow the rules the scientists would like them to fellow.
Its still a pretty unclear field of physics, leaving quite a bit of space for imagination
Anyway, the non-matter interaction of imperial mesons is quite interesting, perhaps they managed to strip or neutralise the gluons.
The correct decay timing of any particle could be achieved by using relativistic effects, meaning that near-c travel of particles stretches their relative lifetime (there is a similar effects with cosmic ray secondary particles, which should not be found on sealevel because of their short lifetime, but lifetime in fact is stretched by relativistic effects).
Its still a pretty unclear field of physics, leaving quite a bit of space for imagination
Anyway, the non-matter interaction of imperial mesons is quite interesting, perhaps they managed to strip or neutralise the gluons.
The correct decay timing of any particle could be achieved by using relativistic effects, meaning that near-c travel of particles stretches their relative lifetime (there is a similar effects with cosmic ray secondary particles, which should not be found on sealevel because of their short lifetime, but lifetime in fact is stretched by relativistic effects).
TheEngineer
SOC-14 1K
Essentially Mesons represent a group of particles and there are also some "exotic" Mesons (quark, anti-quark, gluon combinations ?) in real life physics, which do not fellow the rules the scientists would like them to fellow.
Its still a pretty unclear field of physics, leaving quite a bit of space for imagination
Anyway, the non-matter interaction of imperial mesons is quite interesting, perhaps they managed to strip or neutralise the gluons.
The correct decay timing of any particle could be achieved by using relativistic effects, meaning that near-c travel of particles stretches their relative lifetime (there is a similar effects with cosmic ray secondary particles, which should not be found on sealevel because of their short lifetime, but lifetime in fact is stretched by relativistic effects).
Its still a pretty unclear field of physics, leaving quite a bit of space for imagination
Anyway, the non-matter interaction of imperial mesons is quite interesting, perhaps they managed to strip or neutralise the gluons.
The correct decay timing of any particle could be achieved by using relativistic effects, meaning that near-c travel of particles stretches their relative lifetime (there is a similar effects with cosmic ray secondary particles, which should not be found on sealevel because of their short lifetime, but lifetime in fact is stretched by relativistic effects).
Okay, here goes.
(Note: this is somewhat shaky on the reverse engineering. It would help if you had the short range of the gun in kilometers, but posting that much might not be fair use.)
</font>[/QUOTE]Range with no penalties: 75Mm According to T20. (HG doesn't list ranges...)
Ok, back to wreaking havoc, rather than the nitpicks of what bee-ess-eons are being fired; we know from striker the net effect of hits: Half-full craters of silt, plus some hot gas and radiation.
To create some nasty tremors, fire a couple of MG's in vertical line to target, to create a subsurface cavity (it will be about half full...). Then fire 3-5 in a ring around the top, leaving the center core of the cap intact, but carving out around it. A few thousand tons of rock suddenly no longer have support, and fall, creating a huge shockwave and resultant planet-quake. If you have sufficient forces and loiter time to do so, make bigger holes, and drop larger chunks down deeper holes.
On planets with ice-fields, use smaller meson guns to create steam pockets, then vent them in the direction of an air subduction area, and disturb global circulation. Or fire low-focussed beams to rapidly melt icefields and make them into water; rapidly flood the coasts.
On worlds with tectonic activity, one is not likely to do much; major blasting in faults hasn't successfully triggered quakes, when last I looked into it (been a decade), and testing was discontinued, as the faults available for such tests are along major population zones. One could, however, dig THROUGH the mantle, and create a large lava flow... assuming the core is still molten.
Fire from the side, and dig under the city's Meson Screen, using the screen's artificial decay point to dig out... and if you can keep the angles right, you'll be able to drop the city a meter or 10....
There is a reason the 3I relies on Meson Guns. Since we know how they work and that they work, we simply accept that they work as described, and that "Meson Gun" is a misnomer for "Meson Sized 50ms lifespan hyper-energetic-decay semi-interactive particle relativistic accelerator "
Now, we also know from some sources that some mesons DO decay outside the target zone, and that mesong fire is directionally determinable.
We also know from some fill text (but I can't remember where) that Meson Guns can fire through several kilometers of solid rock, but not through several hundred.
Okay, here goes.
(Note: this is somewhat shaky on the reverse engineering. It would help if you had the short range of the gun in kilometers, but posting that much might not be fair use.)
</font>[/QUOTE]Range with no penalties: 75Mm According to T20. (HG doesn't list ranges...)
Ok, back to wreaking havoc, rather than the nitpicks of what bee-ess-eons are being fired; we know from striker the net effect of hits: Half-full craters of silt, plus some hot gas and radiation.
To create some nasty tremors, fire a couple of MG's in vertical line to target, to create a subsurface cavity (it will be about half full...). Then fire 3-5 in a ring around the top, leaving the center core of the cap intact, but carving out around it. A few thousand tons of rock suddenly no longer have support, and fall, creating a huge shockwave and resultant planet-quake. If you have sufficient forces and loiter time to do so, make bigger holes, and drop larger chunks down deeper holes.
On planets with ice-fields, use smaller meson guns to create steam pockets, then vent them in the direction of an air subduction area, and disturb global circulation. Or fire low-focussed beams to rapidly melt icefields and make them into water; rapidly flood the coasts.
On worlds with tectonic activity, one is not likely to do much; major blasting in faults hasn't successfully triggered quakes, when last I looked into it (been a decade), and testing was discontinued, as the faults available for such tests are along major population zones. One could, however, dig THROUGH the mantle, and create a large lava flow... assuming the core is still molten.
Fire from the side, and dig under the city's Meson Screen, using the screen's artificial decay point to dig out... and if you can keep the angles right, you'll be able to drop the city a meter or 10....
There is a reason the 3I relies on Meson Guns. Since we know how they work and that they work, we simply accept that they work as described, and that "Meson Gun" is a misnomer for "Meson Sized 50ms lifespan hyper-energetic-decay semi-interactive particle relativistic accelerator "
Now, we also know from some sources that some mesons DO decay outside the target zone, and that mesong fire is directionally determinable.
We also know from some fill text (but I can't remember where) that Meson Guns can fire through several kilometers of solid rock, but not through several hundred.
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