Size of the merchant fleet IYTU?

[Stevie-the-Gamer]

Faith Currency

Every currency is a faith currency.


Their value is not based on their rarity. Scandium, to take just one example, is much rarer than gold.

None of this is relevant to Hans' correct point: Actual wealth is the goods and services currency will buy. Moving these requires transports.

As an aside, I have been on the receiving end of the "faith" argument on more than one occasion. The United Kingdom is made up of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Bank in Scotland and Northern Ireland are allowed to issue their own bank notes (note sure about Wales). So in NI I can have a sterling five pound noted in my pocket from the Northern Bank, the Ulster Bank and the Bank of Ireland. And when I go to England rarely are these notes accepted. This leads to the "normal" practice here of going to the bank and exchanging Ulster Bank sterling for Bank of England Sterling or the hoarding of Bank of England notes received in day to day transactions if we are planning a trip to England. Odd people the English, but there you go.

This could be a possible adventure hook when your players have to make their way to the only bank on the planet which can convert their perfectly legal but universally rejected payment for their latest caper.

 

[shield]

Scottish notes are legal tender, so you can use them in England - you might keep some 16yr old on the supermarket checkout who has not seen one and will ask their supervisor but still legal tender

 

[Stevie-the-Gamer]

Bank Notes

Scottish notes are legal tender, so you can use them in England - you might keep some 16yr old on the supermarket checkout who has not seen one and will ask their supervisor but still legal tender

They are ALL legal tender, but that argument cuts no ice at the checkout! I've even had cheques drawn on Bank of Ireland accounts returned by English vendors.

 

[MCEvans]

They are ALL legal tender, but that argument cuts no ice at the checkout! I've even had cheques drawn on Bank of Ireland accounts returned by English vendors.

How do cheques drawn on BoE fare in Scotland or NI?

 

[RainOfSteel]

All the threads about large ships vs. small ships and fleet sizes were focussed on the Navy side of things. So I have been wondering: What about the merchant service?

I strongly recommend obtaining GURPS Traveller: Far Trader, by whatever means necessary if you are interested in this subject.

While there are some difficulties translating GURPS costs in non-GURPS costs, I find the supplement to be overwhelming valuable when discussing the entire business-end of starships and shipping.

Parts of it are far too detailed and realistic for most groups to actually use most of the terms and procedures in practice (a few would be very happy with it), but for fiddling around with the background of the game as a GM, I found it to be invaluable for my purposes.

The question is: How much more would the transport needs of a sector with 783 billion inhabitants be?

The bottom line is that significant rade routes, the ones that will allow hundred thousand and million dton freighters, exist primarily between heavy population centers.

If you spot two high-pop worlds near each other, you can assume there is a lot of trade moving between them, justifying trade at those levels.

If you spot two low-pop worlds, you can assume there is very little trade between them, and freighters in the 1000 dTon range might not want to stop there often. Freighters in the 100-500 dTon range might risk running trade between them.

This is one of the reasons I really don't like low-pop worlds much. You might get a wide-open to semi-deserted feel from such places, but for the purposes of providing adventures (and trade driving ship-board life), they are somewhat short on NPCs and businesses that could generate the production levels necessary to drive interstellar trade.

I tend to want to see pop 6 (millions) a lot of the time, or pop 5 (at least) for worlds that have a "lower population" feel to me personally. You can slip a city of a million onto a planet, have another million scattered about, still totally get a mostly frontier/empty feeling, and still have enough to generate some production.

Consider the Bingham Canyon Mine. Utah's population is 2.8 million and the mine is "run" by only a fraction of that population.

Every year, Kennecott produces approximately 300,000 tons of copper, along with 400,000 ounces of gold, 4 million ounces of silver, about 20 million pounds of molybdenum

Now, if this is a mine on some pop 6 pop-mod 3 world (3 million), the planet will need around 310,000 tons worth of freighter capacity serving it (~6,000 tons per week), carrying away the refined metals elsewhere just for that one large mine. Most of that capacity will be covered by services contracted well in advance.

Today's (2011 December 26) price per metric ton of copper is over $7,500, and you can fit more than one metric ton of copper into a dTon for interstellar shipping so I am going to assume that even factoring in the shipping cost, it will still be economical to do so.

If you add a few more mines across the hypothetical world, that considerably increases the required shipping traffic.

Now, as to what worlds have sufficient resources to export anything, there is nothing in the CT/MT standard or extended UWP that gives any indication of whether a system has any exploitable resources. D20 has the Natural Resources figure in the UWP, but doesn't provide any mechanics to discuss what the score does (it is an input to the D20 World Trade Balance number, but that also has no attached mechanics).

This is regrettable, as exactly what level of resources a world has would be, in my opinion, critical to it's development, including its population. In my personal opinion, the D20 UWP Natural Resources score should affect on population (like +1 for NR 6+ and +2 for NR 9+), but it doesn't. The D20 WTB is calculated by NR - Population + Mods, so an NR 6 Pop 9 world has a -3 base before mods. Any negative score shows the world is a net importer.

There is no Trade Classification associated with NR, because, of course, it goes nowhere except to the WTB calculation, which itself goes nowhere (no mechanics). However, I feel that there should be a new Trade Classification called Resources for NR 6+ worlds. Such worlds are characterized by an abundance of resources that are readily exploitable, one way or another. They frequently provide exports to net-consumer worlds.

It is also my personal feeling that the WTB should be calculated to ignore the first few Population digits as:

Natural Resources - (Population - 4) + Mods

This means that worlds with tens of thousands or fewer, i.e. insignificant populations, have no meaningful affect on the NR value.

Or, in other words, I feel that the logarithmic scale does not match the scale of NR value (it isn't really defined, I know, but I don't really think it is logarithmic as Population is). Or, in other words, 99,999 people aren't going to suck out the NR value of 4 for an entire world.

NR and WTB values are ripe for further exploitation in world and nation-building and determining trade. It is unfortunate that there was no development of it. GURPS Traveller world-building was so different from the rest of Traveller that integrating it and the UWP are also a pain in the neck.

At TL10+, people doing manufacturing [...]

Past a certain point, most everyone moves either into sales, entertainment, or government, or the dole. [...]

For large-scale manufacturing, probably. For small-scale manufacturing, there will still be jobs available, just not many of them.

--------------

Only on page 3 so far, I'll read through the remaining pages later (my apologies).

 

[McPerth]

Technically, as monies, they are called specie. And to be blunt, we know from spectrographic work on asteroids, once we can mine them, the precious metals suddenly are going to balloon in availability (and drop in price).

Further, most of the coinage metals are inherently valuable for their usefulness, which is what keeps their supply down. To use Tobias example, Scandium isn't in much demand, so it's price is lower than the much more readily found gold - but gold is used extensively in both jewelry and electronics, as well as having been common in dentistry.

precious metals are not precious because of rarity, but because of the combination of high utility and low availability.

For what I know, another factor is decisive (aside from its utility and relative low availability) for a metal to be considered precious and useful to mint coinage: durability.

Gold was used as an exchange base (coins) well before most of the utilities quoted by Aramis were true (except jewellry, which was also a mean to show wealth) because it don't rust nor is afected by corrosion (or at least, it is less than other metals). Same happens with silver. Should they have used iron, as an example, rust would have devaluated the money saved by states and wealthy.

The rarity of the metal to be used for coins must be relative, as if it is too scarce, there is not enough money to make economies viable.

And about a sudden supply of those spices, I once was told that when Alexander the Great captured the Persian treasury, he distributed it among his troops to show gratitude to them. The result was the worst inflation ever seen when all this gold was on people's hands and what could be bought with it was the same as before.

Every currency is a faith currency.

None of this is relevant to Hans' correct point: Actual wealth is the goods and services currency will buy. Moving these requires transports.

I agree. The script money is just a piece of paper given a value because people does believe it has that value, not because itself has any.

An universitary economics teacher quite known in Catalonia (I don't know if he's known outside it) once said that a 10000 pesetas bill (that was before Euros began to circulate) had a true value of less than 5 pessetas, that was the cost of making it.

Also in the peseta time in Spain, one kind of coin with a face value of 1 pta was retired because it had more value should you melt it and sell it as metal.

From MT:HT, page 49:

As the economic recession sets in and tech levels roll backward, individuals, governments and businesses begin to look at the credits they hold on their hands. They not only count them, but they also consider the stability of whatever is backing its value. And many hands holding those credits begin to tremble.

With the Imperium cut into many small pieces and with huge tracts of it effectively out of contact (or out of control), there is a good cause to wonder exactly what a credit was worth...

 

[Dragoner]

For what I know, another factor is decisive (aside from its utility and relative low availability) for a metal to be considered precious and useful to mint coinage: durability.

The problems arose, like with the Romans, is when they changed the purity of the coinage.

I agree. The script money is just a piece of paper given a value because people does believe it has that value, not because itself has any.

That is everything: government, military, economics, etc.; all faith, different terms may be used (like morale), but it is all the same thing.

How money is created is another story:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_creation

 

[robject]

IMTU Al Morai has those 53 J4 merchants. And they cover the part of their network that are four parsec links. In addition, they have J1, J2, and J3 merchants in numbers proportional to the number of one-, two-, and three-parsec links in their network.

I've got the actual numbers worked out somewhere, but I can't find the file offhand.

And routinely using J4 ships for one- and two-parsec links is sufficiently silly and profit-thrashing to let me argue 'discrepancy' and advocate a similar retcon for the OTU...


Hans

IMTU Al Morai also has lower-jump merchant ships, but only to cover Mora subsector.

It seems plain to me that the economics are different on the xboat route.

 

[rancke]

IMTU Al Morai also has lower-jump merchant ships, but only to cover Mora subsector.

It seems plain to me that the economics are different on the xboat route.

It seems plain to me that no difference in the universe can make it more profitable to use jump-4 ships to service one-, two-, and three-parsec links than to use ships with the appropriate jump rating.


Hans

 

[robject]

It seems plain to me that no difference in the universe can make it more profitable to use jump-4 ships to service one-, two-, and three-parsec links than to use ships with the appropriate jump rating.


Hans

Then you suffer from either a profound lack of imagination, or an overly strict reliance on small-ship roleplaying trade rules.

Ah, maybe not.

I can think of several ways a major trade route can be profitable enough to a major transport company to be able to support 53 jump-4 freighters, and not maintain a scad of lower rated ships to boot.

I think you can, too, but we are both RP nerds, with our own preferences.

 

[rancke]

I can think of several ways a major trade route can be profitable enough to a major transport company to be able to support 53 jump-4 freighters, and not maintain a scad of lower rated ships to boot.

I was quite careful in the way I phrased it. I didn't say it was inconceivable that Al Morai could earn enough on the cockamamy setup they allegedly have to stay in the black. I said that the setup couldn't possibly be as profitable as one where the shorter links were serviced by ships with the appropriate jump capacity. There's no way the maintenance savings from having only one type of ship can outweigh the loss of carrying capacity the extra fuel costs and the increased investments.

Of course, one may wonder how they avoid being outcompeted by more rational companies, but I'm sure some form of government interference could explain it.

I will add that the notion of having one ship per world regardless of the populations (and thus the number of potential passengers) involved is a very simple one, in the non-flattering sense of the word. The Al Morai network has 51 worlds, but only 48 links; all of its routes are most definitely not created equal, however. The number of passengers from Mora (population 10 billion) to Rhylanor (pop. 8 billion) will not be roughly the same as the number from Raweh (pop. 9000) to Iderati (pop. 20 million).

Or perhaps it will be, keeping in mind that Mora to Rhylanor takes ten jumps totalling 23 parsecs with Al Morai instead of the three or four jumps totalling 10 parsecs going through Somem and Gitosy would mean.

I think you can, too, but we are both RP nerds, with our own preferences.

No, I really feel the described setup is completely implausible[*]. The best I can come up with is that there is some sort of highly excentric bet or will involved.

[*] Just to be clear, I'm not saying my version is the only possible truth. I'm sure there are any number of setups that would work equally well[**]. But the canonical one isn't one of them.

[**] I like your notion of the company doing more work in Mora subsector and think I'll adopt it.​

Hans

 

[Enoki]

As an aside, I have been on the receiving end of the "faith" argument on more than one occasion. The United Kingdom is made up of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Bank in Scotland and Northern Ireland are allowed to issue their own bank notes (note sure about Wales). So in NI I can have a sterling five pound noted in my pocket from the Northern Bank, the Ulster Bank and the Bank of Ireland. And when I go to England rarely are these notes accepted. This leads to the "normal" practice here of going to the bank and exchanging Ulster Bank sterling for Bank of England Sterling or the hoarding of Bank of England notes received in day to day transactions if we are planning a trip to England. Odd people the English, but there you go.

This could be a possible adventure hook when your players have to make their way to the only bank on the planet which can convert their perfectly legal but universally rejected payment for their latest caper.

A couple of more interesting cases for players might be:

Specie money. The local government prints money that is essentially worthless anywhere else. But, the local government has made it a very serious crime to try and use anything else in a transaction. The only place the players can legally trade money is at a government controlled bank that has a fixed (in more ways than one) exchange rate.... Zimbabwe comes to mind. Icelandic Kroner is another one.

Fixed trade rates for money. The local government sets a unrealistic exchange rate for their money but that is the rate virtually everywhere. The exception is a thriving black market. You also get better rates for larger denominations on it...... This is how things get done in the Philippines for instance.....

 

[MCEvans]

A couple of more interesting cases for players might be:

Specie money. The local government prints money that is essentially worthless anywhere else. But, the local government has made it a very serious crime to try and use anything else in a transaction. The only place the players can legally trade money is at a government controlled bank that has a fixed (in more ways than one) exchange rate.... Zimbabwe comes to mind. Icelandic Kroner is another one.

Fixed trade rates for money. The local government sets a unrealistic exchange rate for their money but that is the rate virtually everywhere. The exception is a thriving black market. You also get better rates for larger denominations on it...... This is how things get done in the Philippines for instance.....

That reminds me of another thread (on CotI - http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=23610) about allowing/giving PCs large amounts of money and corresponding possible problems :devil::devil: this fits into that perfectly. :rofl:

 

[aramis]

Then you suffer from either a profound lack of imagination, or an overly strict reliance on small-ship roleplaying trade rules.

Ah, maybe not.

I can think of several ways a major trade route can be profitable enough to a major transport company to be able to support 53 jump-4 freighters, and not maintain a scad of lower rated ships to boot.

I think you can, too, but we are both RP nerds, with our own preferences.

Given the operation costs listed for ships, ignoring the trade rules, no, Rob, they can't. A J4 ship costs more per parsec.

Let's take a J1, J2, J3, and J4 Bk2 design pure freighter set at 800Td (to avoid minimum crew numbers)

Bk2-81 J1 pure freight
_TD _MCr_ Item________
800 _80.0 Hull 800Td USL
_20 __4.0 Bridge
__1 __2.0 Comp 1
_25 _40.0 JD D=2
__7 _16.0 MD D=1
_13 _32.0 PP D=2
_20 __2.5 5xSR (PNM2E)
_80 __0.0 JFuel 1j1
_10 __0.0 PPFuel 4W
624 __0.0 Cargo

Cost 158.85 Incl. SDD
__661,875 Payment
___80,000 JFuel 2j1
____5,000 PP Fuel
___13,238 Maint Share
___21,400 Salaries
__781,513 Monthly op cost @2j1
____1,253 Op Cost per ton 2J1
______627 Op Cost per Ton-Pc @2j1

Bk2-81 J2 pure freight
_TD _MCr_ Item________
800 _80.0 Hull 800Td USL
_20 __4.0 Bridge
__1 __4.0 Comp 1/bis
_45 _80.0 JD H=2
__7 _16.0 MD D=1
_25 _64.0 PP H=2
_24 __3.0 6xSR (PNM3E)
160 __0.0 JFuel 1j2
_20 __0.0 PPFuel 4W
498 __0.0 Cargo

Cost 225.9 Incl. SDD
__941,250 Payment
__160,000 JFuel 2j2
___10,000 PP Fuel
___18,825 Maint Share
___25,400 Salaries
1,155,475 Monthly op cost @ 2J2
____2,321 Op Cost per ton 2J2
______581 Op Cost per Ton-Pc @2j2
1,075,475 Monthly Op Cost @2j1
____2,160 Op Cost per ton 2J1
____1,080 Op Cost per Ton-Pc @2j1

Bk2-81 J3 pure freight
_TD _MCr_ Item________
800 _80.0 Hull 800Td USL
_20 __4.0 Bridge
__4 _18.0 Comp 3
_65 120.0 JD M=3
__7 _16.0 MD D=1
_37 _96.0 PP M=3
_28 __3.5 6xSR (PNM4E)
240 __0.0 JFuel 1j4
_30 __0.0 PPFuel 4W
369 __0.0 Cargo

Cost 303.75 Incl. SDD
1,265,625 Payment
__240,000 JFuel 2j3
___15,000 PP Fuel
___25,313 Maint Share
___29,400 Salaries
1,575,338 Monthly Op Cost @2j3
____4,270 Op Cost per ton 2J3
______712 Op Cost per Ton-Pc @2j3
1,495,338 Monthly op cost @ 2J2
____4,053 Op Cost per ton 2J2
____1,014 Op Cost per Ton-Pc @2j2
1,415,338 Monthly Op Cost @2j1
____3,836 Op Cost per ton 2J1
____1,918 Op Cost per Ton-Pc @2j1



Bk2-81 J4 pure freight
_TD _MCr_ Item________
800 _80.0 Hull 800Td USL
_20 __4.0 Bridge
__4 _30.0 Comp 4
_85 160.0 JD R=4
__7 _16.0 MD D=1
_49 128.0 PP R=4
_32 __4.0 6xSR (PNM5E)
320 __0.0 JFuel 1j4
_40 __0.0 PPFuel 4W
243 __0.0 Cargo

Cost 379.8 Incl. SDD
1,582,500 Payment
__320,000 JFuel 2j4
___20,000 PP Fuel
___31,650 Maint Share
___33,400 Salaries
1,987,550 Monthly op cost @ 2J4
____8,180 Op Cost per ton 2J4
____1,022 Op Cost per Ton-Pc @2j4
1,889,550 Monthly Op Cost @2j3
____7,859 Op Cost per ton 2J3
____1,309 Op Cost per Ton-Pc @2j3
1,809,550 Monthly op cost @ 2J2
____7,521 Op Cost per ton 2J2
____1,881 Op Cost per Ton-Pc @2j2
1,729,550 Monthly Op Cost @2j1
____7,191 Op Cost per ton 2J1
____3,596 Op Cost per Ton-Pc @2j1



A J4 nowhere NEAR competitive below J4... (competitive being about Cr800 or less per ton parsec.)

The J3 ship isn't competitive at J2 runs
The J2 ship isn't competitive at J1 runs

Such runs are (at best) a loss on a longer route for soem major purpose. Numbers are even more convoluted under Bk5, as TL factors in more strongly.

 

[robject]

I was quite careful in the way I phrased it.

I know, and I understand your arguments; they sound reasonable to me. I think my sticking point is that a sector-wide company doesn't have to also gobble up the J3 routes, since those are serviced by companies like Oberlindes, nor does it need to use up the J2 J1 routes, since those are serviced by free traders, fledglings, and small locals.

I like that sort of pecking order, I think it enriches the setting, and I think that's more important than rationalizing what a company needs to do to stay alive. Since, however, I do agree that a company must be competitive or die, I prefer to assume there are subtleties or complexities that our plain view misses.

I can be wrong on all counts.

 

[RainOfSteel]

On a world feeding 10 billion plus, unless there are fertile worlds in system, food is going to be a constant issue.

I would have to disagree. At least on Terra today (year 2011 AD/ACE), in the USA, our government pays farmers not to grow crops in order to avoid flooding the market. It isn't food production that is the issue in feeding Terra's hungry billions, it is food distribution.

While there are technologies to supplement the need for open space, agriculture is very land intensive.

Basic agriculture is land intensive. However, basic land-use is not all there is.

High-tech worlds, especially 13-15, are going to be capable of manufacturing their food synthetically, and people won't be able to tell any difference between it and normal food. In fact, they may have well developed natural food phobias (ooooh, bacteria, get it away!).

The only component they'll need is organic substances. If that is missing, then they may well have to import food or organics.

TL 6-12 are still fairly well-off, with 8+ being much better for basic genetic engineering, as far as food production goes.

I am not personally a fan of seeing billions or tens of billions for a population with TL values below 7-8.

Let me try an example. The National Bank of Shionthy issues currency notes backed by a very hard currency: Antimatter. Stored in its vaults are antimatter enough to redeem all the bank notes it has issued on demand with the amount of anti-matter printed on them.

I have to nitpick at this point. Shionthy is TL 8. They aren't going to be manufacturing antimatter in any quantity and at a cost that is superior to the Imperium's TL-15 worlds, none of which can yet use antimatter anyway (a TL 16 plateau, according to the charts).

Also, Shionthny is Pop 7, or tens of millions. Are they:

a) Really going to have a currency independent of the Imperial credit?
b) Really going to have any materials-backed currency?

What makes people think the Imperial credit is materials-backed?

All the gold ever mined on Terra through 2011 is estimated at 165,000 tons. The USA's gold reserves are 8,133.5 tons (baring conspiracy theories which hold the USA secretly disposed of some large fraction of Fort Knox's gold supply). That would be about $370,887,600,000 (8,133.5 x 2000 lbs x 12 troy ozs x $1,900), or far less than the value of all the USA's money (physical and electronic) flowing through its economy. I always tend to wonder what people are thinking when they go about demanding the USA go "back" on the gold standard.

Faith can back a currency. It backs the USA's and indeed, I believe, most of Terra's (if not all of it). Does faith alone have issues? Yes. Especially the ease of issuing new money to attempt to solve issues (which it doesn't). Materials have issues, too. When the available new supply of a material to back a currency is short, an economy has difficulty expanding. This type of issue actually caused economic difficulties for the USA in the 19th Century.

I think that while the Imperium maintains reserves regarding currency, that I doubt the Imperial credit is fully backed by those reserves. Because I view the Imperial economy as a "modernized" version of the old age-of-sail system, I tend to view its currency as faith-based, just as Terra's is in 2011.

 

[mike wightman]

About your nit pick - they don't make antimatter - they harvest it.
Shionthy is a system that was subjected to antimatter weapons use during the Ancients war, as a result there is still antimatter floating around out there.

Now my nit pick.

The Earth's population was over 1 billion in the mid 1800s, TL5? and 2 billion by the inter WW years, TL6? The problem isn't growing food, the problem is having the medical skills to keep them alive, disease prevention, hygiene.

 

[rancke]

I think my sticking point is that a sector-wide company doesn't have to also gobble up the J3 routes, since those are serviced by companies like Oberlindes, nor does it need to use up the J2 J1 routes, since those are serviced by free traders, fledglings, and small locals.

But the canonical description of Al Morai specifically lists the worlds it services and the routes it uses to do so. Which consists of 14 four-parsec links, 14 three-parsec links, 17 two-parsec links, and 5 one-parsec links. It may not need to use J3, J2, and J1 routes, but it explicitly does.

So:

1) Canon tells us Al Morai has 53 J4 ships (even tells us their names). No reason not to believe that.
2) Canon tells us Al Morai services 51 worlds along specific routes. Some reason to doubt it (some of the links must be quite a bit less profitable than others), but not enough to reject it. Apparently long-distance transport without changing company is an Al Morai speciality.
3) Canon tells us they employ those ships in a way there is every reason to doubt, as it's highly uneconomic with little or no offsetting advantage.
4) Canon does not mention any J3, J2, and J1 ships in Al Morai's employ, but at least it doesn't explicitly state that there aren't any (just implies it ).​

A reasonable fix for point 3) is (IMO) to retcon that those 53 ships are used to service Al Morai's 14 four-parsec links rather than all 50 links. This also allows for adjustments due to different passenger volumes (For example, a single J4 ship might be employed to cover Raweh to Wonstar to Karin whereas several would be employed between Kataluru and Trin).

The simplest (in the non-flattering sense ) way to determine the number of J3, J2, and J1 ships used to service the remaining links would be to divide 53 by 14 and multiply the result by 14, 17, and 5 in order to get the number of J3, J2, and J1. Actually, since more people can afford J1 trips than J2 trips than J3 trips than J4 trips, the numbers ought to be inflated somehow, but I've no idea what would be reasonable factors to use.

Complications abound. The J2 link from Mora to Fornice, for example, ought to have far more potential passengers than most of the other links (they're both high-pop). OTOH, there ought to be a J4 link from Mora to Maitz, bypassing Fornice, for people who want to save ten days off their trip to Pallique or Trin or Glisten. And another from Mora to Carey, again bypassing Fornice and saving a jump.

I like that sort of pecking order, I think it enriches the setting, and I think that's more important than rationalizing what a company needs to do to stay alive. Since, however, I do agree that a company must be competitive or die, I prefer to assume there are subtleties or complexities that our plain view misses.

I'm all for assuming that a one-page description of a transport company that covers 51 worlds has simplified some of the subtleties and complexities, but there's a limit to how far that explanation can stretch, and a company that uses J4 ships to service one-parsec routes is way beyond that limit.

As for pecking order, I'm going to address that in a separate post.


Hans

 

[rancke]

(I quote this bit twice because I had two disparate replies to it.)

I think my sticking point is that a sector-wide company doesn't have to also gobble up the J3 routes, since those are serviced by companies like Oberlindes, nor does it need to use up the J2 J1 routes, since those are serviced by free traders, fledglings, and small locals.

The connection you make between company size and the routes they service has very little merit. There is probably a slight correlation, due to the size of investments needed to run ships of different jump capacity, though I'm not even sure about that. The main difference, however, is the traffic along the routes. Solid established companies (Sector-wide, subsector-wide or interface) service routes with high volumes of steady traffic. Fledgelings and small locals service the routes the solid companies can't be bothered with. Free traders survive on the scraps that fall between the cracks.

Astrography has a great deal of influence here. If there are enough people that want to get from Regina to Rhylanor and vice versa, there may be a niche for a jump-5 ship to go between Regina and Rhylanor via Echiste because they lie exactly 10 parsecs apart, making J3 and J4 routes less effective. Such a route could be run by a single- (or two- or three-) ship company, a minor company or a major company. Or multiple competing companies, for that matter, depending on the passenger volume. (In my writeup of Oberlindes in the GTU in 1120 for JTAS Online, I mentioned them recently buying a few J5 ships and employing them on that route. But JTAS Online is not canon).


Hans

 

[rancke]

I have to nitpick at this point. Shionthy is TL 8. They aren't going to be manufacturing antimatter in any quantity and at a cost that is superior to the Imperium's TL-15 worlds, none of which can yet use antimatter anyway (a TL 16 plateau, according to the charts).

As Mike said, they don't manufacture it, they harvest it.

Also, Shionthny is Pop 7, or tens of millions. Are they:

a) Really going to have a currency independent of the Imperial credit?

They're interdicted. They can't spend Imperial credits (Except on the black market).

b) Really going to have any materials-backed currency?

They don't need it. I threw that one in to make a point. On the other hand, they might want it, and it's just as good a backing as gold and silver.

What makes people think the Imperial credit is materials-backed?

I don't. I think it's fiat money. What I'm arguing is that people use it because they can use it to buy stuff from other worlds, and the reason they can do that is that there is transport capacity to move stuff from one world to another.

You can't buy stuff with CrImps because they're valuable; they're valuable because you can buy stuff with them.


Hans