Skimming

[Supplement Four]

I'm bee-boppin' through my Traveller Book tonight, and I spy, on page 80, that skimming fuel at a Gas Giant takes a week!

You gotta be kiddin'.

Really?

I see in MT, they really cut that down to about 10 hours.

I wonder if it's something like 10 hours to skim, but the rest of the time is the fuel processor refining the fuel.

Thoughts?

That seems like a long time.

 

[Supplement Four]

I'm bee-boppin' through my Traveller Book tonight, and I spy, on page 80, that skimming fuel at a Gas Giant takes a week!

You gotta be kiddin'.

Really?

I see in MT, they really cut that down to about 10 hours.

I wonder if it's something like 10 hours to skim, but the rest of the time is the fuel processor refining the fuel.

Thoughts?

That seems like a long time.

 

[RainOfSteel]

Taking a week would be outrageous. No one would ever do it except in emergencies. Most commercial craft would not come with scoops or plants.

-------------------------

I rate the skimming time as equal to the fuel plant processing time, just to make it easy.

Given that actual skimming operations would melt the starship conducting them from gas compression, it doesn't seem like much additional waving of the hands.

 

[RainOfSteel]

Taking a week would be outrageous. No one would ever do it except in emergencies. Most commercial craft would not come with scoops or plants.

-------------------------

I rate the skimming time as equal to the fuel plant processing time, just to make it easy.

Given that actual skimming operations would melt the starship conducting them from gas compression, it doesn't seem like much additional waving of the hands.

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

It is, but then again I have never been to Jupiter.

For Me, its all in the scoop, Traveller's unsung hero. And Fuel Tonnage.

A week I could understand if using Fuel Shuttles to fill a huge ship could take a LONG time if you consider:

Flight to GG from mothership.

High Orbit Injection (HOI)

Physical Fuel Intake (which I call PFI)

Flight Back to Mothership

Transfer of Fuel

Purification of Fuel

(rinse and repeat)


On ships capable of Skimming Directly, It goes:

High Orbit Injection (HOI)

PFI

Purification

Considerably less time, but timing out each step is key.

IMTU, HOI is not as cool as it sounds. It rather sucks. I make GG more like real GG by adding a huge Magnetic Feild...

(Jupiter's is 40X Earths, but I may be mistaken. I do know its Mag field is the largest physical object/effect in the solar system, If you could see it, it would be as big and sometimes bigger than the moon from Earth.)

...and INTENSE Radiation. Enough Radiation to eventually defeat ANY shielding, and ultimately KILL the crew by Rad Poisoning.

The solution to this is that the skimming ship needs to make several Parabolic "skims" into the upper atmo. This is almost like the "Vomit Comet" trajectory, but way more dangerous. There is Certainly no "plunging into the gas Giant" unless the crew is suicidal. A streamlined Liner with passengers Skimming means the ship needs a new Captain, and the Passengers need an airsick bag and a Passage Refund. This also makes a market for Skimming "Adventure Vacations" for thrill seekers and Daredevils.

I give a Base Chance of 9+, with a Positive DM per Drive Number. This means a 1g ship is taking a pretty big gamble, and even a 6g ship can get wrecked on a 2.

I have run several skimming simulations using Orbiter to try to time this, But I seem to be good at getting sucked into Jupiter and Croaking. I even tried it in the Discovery from 2001, and also got smoked pretty quick.

But consider the lowly, free for the asking, Fuel Scoop. Fuel intakes type and size should also be a factor.

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

It is, but then again I have never been to Jupiter.

For Me, its all in the scoop, Traveller's unsung hero. And Fuel Tonnage.

A week I could understand if using Fuel Shuttles to fill a huge ship could take a LONG time if you consider:

Flight to GG from mothership.

High Orbit Injection (HOI)

Physical Fuel Intake (which I call PFI)

Flight Back to Mothership

Transfer of Fuel

Purification of Fuel

(rinse and repeat)


On ships capable of Skimming Directly, It goes:

High Orbit Injection (HOI)

PFI

Purification

Considerably less time, but timing out each step is key.

IMTU, HOI is not as cool as it sounds. It rather sucks. I make GG more like real GG by adding a huge Magnetic Feild...

(Jupiter's is 40X Earths, but I may be mistaken. I do know its Mag field is the largest physical object/effect in the solar system, If you could see it, it would be as big and sometimes bigger than the moon from Earth.)

...and INTENSE Radiation. Enough Radiation to eventually defeat ANY shielding, and ultimately KILL the crew by Rad Poisoning.

The solution to this is that the skimming ship needs to make several Parabolic "skims" into the upper atmo. This is almost like the "Vomit Comet" trajectory, but way more dangerous. There is Certainly no "plunging into the gas Giant" unless the crew is suicidal. A streamlined Liner with passengers Skimming means the ship needs a new Captain, and the Passengers need an airsick bag and a Passage Refund. This also makes a market for Skimming "Adventure Vacations" for thrill seekers and Daredevils.

I give a Base Chance of 9+, with a Positive DM per Drive Number. This means a 1g ship is taking a pretty big gamble, and even a 6g ship can get wrecked on a 2.

I have run several skimming simulations using Orbiter to try to time this, But I seem to be good at getting sucked into Jupiter and Croaking. I even tried it in the Discovery from 2001, and also got smoked pretty quick.

But consider the lowly, free for the asking, Fuel Scoop. Fuel intakes type and size should also be a factor.

 

[Pickles]

IMTU asteroid refuelling is always preferable to gas giant skimming, for all the reasons outlined above.

 

[Pickles]

IMTU asteroid refuelling is always preferable to gas giant skimming, for all the reasons outlined above.

 

[mike wightman]

Funny, in my copy of the hardback Traveller Book gas giant refueling takes eight hours

Page 50, in the section Lesser Known Aspects of Space Travel.

I think the week is refering to the time taken by a 1G ship for the whole trip from the mainworld to the Gas Giant to conduct the skimming

 

[mike wightman]

Funny, in my copy of the hardback Traveller Book gas giant refueling takes eight hours

Page 50, in the section Lesser Known Aspects of Space Travel.

I think the week is refering to the time taken by a 1G ship for the whole trip from the mainworld to the Gas Giant to conduct the skimming

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

Now THAT sounds more reasonable, going on Travel times. Make mine seawater! A day at the beach hosing up fuel sounds sort of nice...

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

Now THAT sounds more reasonable, going on Travel times. Make mine seawater! A day at the beach hosing up fuel sounds sort of nice...

 

[BillDowns]

Originally posted by Bromgrev:
IMTU asteroid refuelling is always preferable to gas giant skimming, for all the reasons outlined above.

How do you refuel from a rock? I'm just asking - that sounds strange to me.

On a different tack, given the prevalence of "snowball" type moons around the GG in our system, it does not seem unreasonable to snug up to one of them and suck all the hydro-carbons you want w/o the risks involved in actual skimming.

 

[BillDowns]

Originally posted by Bromgrev:
IMTU asteroid refuelling is always preferable to gas giant skimming, for all the reasons outlined above.

How do you refuel from a rock? I'm just asking - that sounds strange to me.

On a different tack, given the prevalence of "snowball" type moons around the GG in our system, it does not seem unreasonable to snug up to one of them and suck all the hydro-carbons you want w/o the risks involved in actual skimming.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Funny, in my copy of the hardback Traveller Book gas giant refueling takes eight hours

Page 50, in the section Lesser Known Aspects of Space Travel.

I think the week is refering to the time taken by a 1G ship for the whole trip from the mainworld to the Gas Giant to conduct the skimming

Interesting....

I've got the hardback edition. I wonder if the pages are different in the softback edition (assuming you've got the softback).

I see that 8 hour comment on page 51...not page 50.

Notice that it says:

"This procedure (called skimming) takes approximately eight hours, and results in fuel tanks filled with unrefined fuel."

Then, on page 80, we see:

"Refueling in this fashion generally requires a week. Fuel acquired by skimming is unrefined."

Hmmm....

It would feel more like a typo if the page 80 reference said "8 days" instead of "a week".

Looks like some errata to me.


Hey Sig, is there any CT reference that discusses the time it takes to use the fuel purification plant to refine fuel?

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Funny, in my copy of the hardback Traveller Book gas giant refueling takes eight hours

Page 50, in the section Lesser Known Aspects of Space Travel.

I think the week is refering to the time taken by a 1G ship for the whole trip from the mainworld to the Gas Giant to conduct the skimming

Interesting....

I've got the hardback edition. I wonder if the pages are different in the softback edition (assuming you've got the softback).

I see that 8 hour comment on page 51...not page 50.

Notice that it says:

"This procedure (called skimming) takes approximately eight hours, and results in fuel tanks filled with unrefined fuel."

Then, on page 80, we see:

"Refueling in this fashion generally requires a week. Fuel acquired by skimming is unrefined."

Hmmm....

It would feel more like a typo if the page 80 reference said "8 days" instead of "a week".

Looks like some errata to me.


Hey Sig, is there any CT reference that discusses the time it takes to use the fuel purification plant to refine fuel?

 

[Supplement Four]

And, another question...

If a ship has a fuel purification plant (and given the price of them listed in Book 5, every starship that has fuel scoops--which is every streamlined ship--should have one), is there any situation where the ship would use unrefined fuel?

The only reason I can think of is a time-desparate situation, where the ship's captain doesn't have enough time to wait and refine the fuel (likely if some Vargr Corsairs are breathing down your neck).


I'm thinking that running the fuel purfication plant takes quite a while (maybe not a week, but quite a while) that the ship can be working on while doing in-system operations.

If it takes 8 hours to skim fuel, would it be unreasonable to require 16 hours for purfication?

 

[Supplement Four]

And, another question...

If a ship has a fuel purification plant (and given the price of them listed in Book 5, every starship that has fuel scoops--which is every streamlined ship--should have one), is there any situation where the ship would use unrefined fuel?

The only reason I can think of is a time-desparate situation, where the ship's captain doesn't have enough time to wait and refine the fuel (likely if some Vargr Corsairs are breathing down your neck).


I'm thinking that running the fuel purfication plant takes quite a while (maybe not a week, but quite a while) that the ship can be working on while doing in-system operations.

If it takes 8 hours to skim fuel, would it be unreasonable to require 16 hours for purfication?

 

[mike wightman]

Sorry, the page 50 reference is for where the section starts - the quote itself is indeed on page 51 (I have the hardback too ).

Look on page 54 at the typical travel times. It'll take a 1G ship 5.7-6.9 days to travel from the main world (assuming it's in the inner zone) to a gas giant. Then eight hours to skim, and a further 12-17 more to get to a safe jump distance.

Let's just call it about a week

 

[mike wightman]

Sorry, the page 50 reference is for where the section starts - the quote itself is indeed on page 51 (I have the hardback too ).

Look on page 54 at the typical travel times. It'll take a 1G ship 5.7-6.9 days to travel from the main world (assuming it's in the inner zone) to a gas giant. Then eight hours to skim, and a further 12-17 more to get to a safe jump distance.

Let's just call it about a week