Standard Sized Staterooms

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by veltyen:
Firefly.

And every caravan I've ever used.

Yacht's.

TL4 folding sinks (USA submarine)

Commercial folding sink for current day sale

Minimal footprint shower

Folding desk/bunks (highly recommended)

Is that enough?

I wasn't able to find any images of real world folding toilets though.

Interesting toys. The current folding Sink takes up as much space in the wall as out. (So it would take up twice as much space having it fold as it does if it is fixed.) (The TL-4 folding sink, picture says it might be a folding sink, if it is a water container of some kind it is a basin. There are no plumbing connections.) The minimal footprint shower is simply a door hiding a showerhead and two handles.

I agree that a Marine Bathroom might be the way to go. In most of those that I have seen the toilet and sink are basically in the shower stall. But it is still all there.

Now foldoing a table makes sense, it is basically flat. Folding the bed makes less sense. In this example you are losing .3 meters from your longest wall. You are also losing any storage space you could have had under the bunk. When the bed is stowed what are you going to do with the space? I suppose you could put a flat panel monitor on it.

You could put a temporary table on it. (A place to eat or play cards, for example but you could put that just as easily on a different wall.) remember that anything you put there when the bed is folded has to be put someplace else when the bed is open.

And where are you going to put the storeage that you lost by not having under bunk drawers? Further where are you going to stow your bedding? You are going to need a vertical locker with a decent depth to hang clothes, or simply to store that suit of Combat Armor that every PC wants to own, why not have the bed fixed and that locker at one end or the other, or both, of the bed? (Similar to Starbuck's rack in the new Battlestar Galactica.) When you fold up the bed you lose more than just the bed, you also lose the storage. On a modern ship, a bed is more than just a place to sleep.

 

[parmasson]

Think TL-12+ materials fellas.
Run a mild current through a plastic film for a split second and it gets hard as metal, pipes that “snap” into shape, joints that don’t need lubrication, Toilets that “inflate” when needed and use gravitic tech to suck the poop out. How far have we come in materials tech just in the last two tech levels? Now think four more.

Fixtures don’t have to be “fixed” anymore than modern sailors need to worry about oil lamps busting open on wooden decks.

 

[RandyT0001]

Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
Since plenty of people want to fold up the furniture or the plumbing into the wall, can someone please point me to a non-cartoon, TV series, or movie where this was actually done?

Though it is not a TV series or a movie I did draw a schematic of a possible type of folding toilet which uses a flexible 'plastic baggie' for a waste collection bowl. The "plastic baggie' is made of a tear resistant material (like mylar or extra tough garbage bag). I'm not an engineer but maybe it will work. Addition The wall is 3" thick and the seat is 15" long, about standard(?).

 

[BetterThanLife]

It lacks a trap but it isn't bad. You are increasing the size of your wall, though not as bad as most things that everyone is saying fold into the wall. Though I think it should probably fold down instead of up. It would have to be empty to fold but it wouldn't have to stretch as far.

 

[flykiller]

How far have we come in materials tech just in the last two tech levels? Now think four more.

hm. staterooms configurable on demand. "computer, give me a couch and viewscreen." "computer, give me a hammock and surrounding foliage." could be interesting.

speaking of hammocks, these were very popular bedding solutions aboard ship for centuries.

 

[RandyT0001]

If you decrease the drain pipe from 2" to 1.5" then it will fit into a 2" wall. A few water nozzles built into the seat where the bowl meets the seat (12" from the wall) which is hooked into the water supply line and is activated once the seat is raised past 45 degrees this will help 'flush' material down the drain and cleanse the bowl somewhat. I made it fold up so it would use gravity to empty. Whose to say that the seat isn't 'powered' so the person using it doesn't have to fold it up. Hit a wall button, it fold down; hit another button, it folds up and flushes. I figure that there is a airtight gasket on the back side of the wall panel/support (side arrow points to) that seals, preventing bad odors from entering the room from the waste system. And there could be a third button that when depressed dispenses air freshener to help mask odors after a recent use.
Maybe?

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by Randy Tyler:
If you decrease the drain pipe from 2" to 1.5" then it will fit into a 2" wall. A few water nozzles built into the seat where the bowl meets the seat (12" from the wall) which is hooked into the water supply line and is activated once the seat is raised past 45 degrees this will help 'flush' material down the drain and cleanse the bowl somewhat. I made it fold up so it would use gravity to empty. Whose to say that the seat isn't 'powered' so the person using it doesn't have to fold it up. Hit a wall button, it fold down; hit another button, it folds up and flushes. I figure that there is a airtight gasket on the back side of the wall panel/support (side arrow points to) that seals, preventing bad odors from entering the room from the waste system. And there could be a third button that when depressed dispenses air freshener to help mask odors after a recent use.
Maybe?

Certainly, so you are adding between 2 to 4 inches to a 2 inch wall. (Or roughly 5 to 10cm.) Remember if you want privacy, and insulation, plus to make these walls loadbearing there is no put it in the already thin wall you are adding to it. The other side of the wall is not void space. IF it is void space then yo uare adding to the depth because you aren't going to cut holes in your bulkhead for this. But yes it could work. Now are you putting this in your shower or in your room? (As a person is still going to tend to want privacy.) You can fold it, but the more important question is what benefit do you really gain from folding it (And cutting that dimension of the room down 10cm.)?

 

[parmasson]

Hmmmmm....
A centralized fresher/toilet room for multiple staterooms aboard small ships may not be out of the question. College dorm halls use this system and I really think it depends on your expiations. Long term crewmen might just expect this when you live in a tin can most of your life. Those from dirtside might be suitably shocked (leading to comedy) but just consider taking the fresher out of the “crew” stateroom and that will buy quite a bit of space.

High passage is a different matter....

 

[mike wightman]

One stateroom is designed for single occupancy in most Traveller rulesets.
Military and adventurer ships may squeeze into double occupancy, but its going to be snug.

The fresher is described canonically as a multi-function combination of wash basin, toilet, shower, and a small washer/dryer. Half a corner square appears ample in size to me, especially if rounded.

The bed should probably also be a couch and a storage locker.

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by Kurega Gikur:
Hmmmmm....
A centralized fresher/toilet room for multiple staterooms aboard small ships may not be out of the question. College dorm halls use this system and I really think it depends on your expiations. Long term crewmen might just expect this when you live in a tin can most of your life. Those from dirtside might be suitably shocked (leading to comedy) but just consider taking the fresher out of the “crew” stateroom and that will buy quite a bit of space.

High passage is a different matter....

Actually why should High Passage be that much different. It hasn't been that long ago that high end hotels still had common bathrooms. It depends on where you are. I spent a couple of summers at the Lake Mohonk Mountain House. A very nice hotel. It was the rare room that didn't share a bathroom, and a few you had to go down the hall to use the facilities. Granted this was back in the dark ages, (early 80's) about 70 miles North of NYC. (It happens to be the hotel that The Shining was set in, though not the location.) Besides a shared room makes travelling couples have a connecting door without having to give up the wall space you would normally have to.

Do people flying on Airplanes expect their own bathroom? Even in first class? Yes the Skipper should have their own head. Perhaps a VIP passenger should have their own head. (Though a VIP would probably spring for two rooms.) If it is standard accomodations, that staterooms are shared then nobody will complain about it. Now if the rest of the world uses individual heads but one design doesn't, then that is an issue. But the advantages of sharing a fresher with the next stateroom offer quite a bit of an advantage, in terms of passenger comfort within their stateroom and freeing up more space for the common room. (Without resorting to gimicks or handwavium cubbage.)

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
One stateroom is designed for single occupancy in most Traveller rulesets.
Military and adventurer ships may squeeze into double occupancy, but its going to be snug.

The fresher is described canonically as a multi-function combination of wash basin, toilet, shower, and a small washer/dryer. Half a corner square appears ample in size to me, especially if rounded.

The bed should probably also be a couch and a storage locker.

Sigg, I would suggest that a shower needs to be at least 30"x30" larger if you are going to cram other things in there or for other slightly larger than average man sized races. Otherwise you can't expect a person to actually get clean. Traditionally, in canon, a free standing Fresher has taken up .5 tons. (Even on small craft where space is even more at a premium.) I don't see why a fresher in a stateroom would take up less space.

In most cases a bed can double as a couch if it is narrower than a traditional bed and set at the correct height. All that is needed is something to lean against. Makes sense to pad the wall on the lower bunk. The upper bunk could be pullman style, or Murphy style, your choice in naming convention but should probably be present in most staterooms. Especially since some versions of Traveller allow passage to be double occupancy. Granted Book 2 says that one stateroom is required per crew member on commercial ships. (And I would still hold players to that.) (And before one of my players jumps in and says something, the Missive was not a commercial ship.

) However it will stick out from the wall and probably be supported from the base not the wall. (Bolted or high tech equivalent between the floor and ceiling?)

 

[mike wightman]

Ever been in a shower with a seat? I have

The pedastal could easily contain the sanitary facilities.

A simple wash basin could fold down from the wall.

Cloths could be hung in the shower, blasted with high pressure water jets, and then dried with hot air.

Isn't there a way grav plates and inertial compensators could be used in the shower and the bed...

 

[BetterThanLife]

You don't want to go anyway near a shower that doesn't have gravity. (In fact I would recommend staying away from water in Zero-G.) I have read that it is extremely dangerous as it tends to form big water bubbles and could drown you. (It also tends to stick to things.) Though that could be pure science fiction, I think there is some truth to it.)

But in terms of having the bed oriented one direction an the Shower a different direction? Interesting concept. I guess it depends on how you handle AG fields.

I agree that a for compactness that putting everything in there is fine. I am just suggesting that it should occupy a bit more space than most people are willing to admit, simply because you have to be able to move. .5 Tons appears to be about standard, it isn't going to be some .5m x .5m closet.

 

[mike wightman]

I've been upstairs and measured my shower cubicle, it has a base that is 0.75m by 0.75m. So that's a quarter of a deck plan square

A pedastal could fit in easily, or the toilet bowl could be pulled up from the floor.
A wash basin could fit in and around the shower controls.

The shower cubicle in the caravan we stayed in was smaller still


By the way, I love the artwork

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
I've been upstairs and measured my shower cubicle, it has a base that is 0.75m by 0.75m.

A pedastal could fit in easily, or the toilet bowl could be pulled up from the floor.
A wash basin could fit in and around the shower controls.

The shower cubicle in the caravan we stayed in was smaller still


By the way, I love the artwork

Thanks Sigg.

I do know that the door to my bathroom is about .6 meters. If I walk through it with my arms to my side, without turning, I will brush my shoulder on one side or the other. While I could take a shower with my elbows in, and I have, it isn't the most comfortable way to do it. Generally a shower with a seat in it is wider than it is deep. A typical small shower purchased today is about .8 meters. Typical full size stall is between .91m and 1m. With a seat they run between 1.2m to 1.6m wide by .8m to 1m deep. (Or including walls with plumbing right at .5 tons the whole unit combined.

) You can have a smaller shower but not a practical one with everything else in there, that is much smaller than that. I am not saying that it can't be done, just that it probably shouldn't be done. Especially when you take into account the range of Human-Sized people that it is supposed to accomodate.

 

[Icosahedron]

How does this sound?
I have a 3m x 3m room having a fresher (with integral folding hardware) plus a pair of bunks on one wall. the top bunk drops onto the lower one to make a settee with storage space underneath, and is raised to an appropriate height on vertical corner rails. on the wall at the foot of each bunk is a plasma screen (or HiTec equivalent). Beside the bunks is a folding table similar to the one I have in my garden (a sort of folding picnic table with integral bench seating). Along the rest of this wall is storage cupboards, other folding devices and shelving of about bookshelf depth. Behind the door, opposite the fresher, is a wardrobe and drawer unit. There is still almost an entire wall free, and pull-down projector screens (actually backlit rather than projected) can be dropped in front of the storage to display calming woodland scenes if desired.
The 'bookshelf' storage/foldaway units would be modular, in the fashion of Dexion shelving, (fastened to floor and ceiling if you need to avoid load-bearing walls) and easily transferable, linking into ceiling conduits if necessary. They lose about 3.5% of the room width, 7% if you have them on opposite walls.
I'm happy with it IMTU.

 

[aramis]

Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Aramis:

Oh, and the last couple pics border on risque....

I forgot to ask. Do you consider that a bad thing?

</font>[/QUOTE]Actually, yes. It distracts from appreciating the Architecture, and IMO, The one where she's performing a breast self-exam is quite simply, too far... well over the bounds of good taste.

 

[aramis]

Re Folding commodes: We need a bowl which extends at least 30cm, and needs to be (for typical male droop) at least 10cm deep, and probably at least 20cm wide. So, adding a drain pipe, we add another 5cm. The toilet

You do NOT need a trap; ships are designed for 0-G functionality as a safety precaution. Every fixture will have a valve system, not a trap. Probably a ball-cock.

Two reasons for folding the toilet: One, it cuts the extrusion from 30+ (preferably almost 50cm) to about 15. Two, it means that you have contained the contaminated area in case of gravity fluctuation, failure, or hard maneuver. (It also means you won't see any brown stains.)

It doesn't need to fold "into" the wall, just up to the wall. Likewise, the sink is similar in needed depth, and the width is useful. The "fixtures" can be spigots mounted on the wall, which are inside when

Also, toilets do NOT need a tank. Typical Alaskan household fill piping is 1" ID 1/32" wall copper supply. More than adequate for most purposes if the pressure is controlled correctly. The toilet can have a local sump, which then presurrizes, that's a mere 15cm deep off the wall.

Here's a D-plan of a 1m fresher. The bars are 1m, marked in 10cm chunks. The lilac area is the plumbing zone; the fresher connects to a built into-the-floor set of 5 conduits: Power, Hot Water, Cold Water, Waste Water, Data. Green roll-away door (rolling point shown.)
Shown with toilet folded down and not. Sink could be inset in collum; sink with watertight cabinet doors could double as a garmet washer...

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by Aramis:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Aramis:

Oh, and the last couple pics border on risque....

I forgot to ask. Do you consider that a bad thing?

</font>[/QUOTE]Actually, yes. It distracts from appreciating the Architecture, and IMO, The one where she's performing a breast self-exam is quite simply, too far... well over the bounds of good taste. </font>[/QUOTE]Actually she is taking her shirt off, on the way to the shower. If I were to turn her around it would be obvious. However while the picture is designed to grab attention, and it does that, both here and in the gallery where it is hosted, it is also designed not to show anything that would void a PG rating and turning her around would do just that.

I don't have the luxury of posting simple room pictures. (I don't have the web space for it.) Besides they aren't as much fun to do, nor are they asthetically pleasing. (Probably why it is turning out to be difficult to do Flykiller's pics.)

I do these for several reasons, but mostly because I have fun doing them and I have gotten fun responses from them. I am sorry you don't like the subject matter or the pictures, but you can't please everyone, and I certainly know better than to try.

 

[flykiller]

I don't have the luxury of posting simple room pictures. (I don't have the web space for it.) Besides they aren't as much fun to do, nor are they asthetically pleasing. (Probably why it is turning out to be difficult to do Flykiller's pics.)

then just skip mine and never mind. thanks for the effort, really, but I'm with aramis.