Subsector Fleet make-up in 1105

[rancke]

I found this in the Fighting Ships of the Shattered Imperium (Pg 9)

BatRon Configuration
3-4 Battleships
1 Tanker
2 Transport ships
3 Scouts
2 Auxiliary ships

CruRon Configuration
5-8 Cruisers
1 Auxiliary ship
2 Scouts
4 Escort class ships

AssaultRon Configuration
1 Cruiser
3 Transport ships
1 Tanker
1 Auxiliary ship
2 Scouts
1 Dromedary
4 Escort class ships

This reduces the cost of an average BatRon to less than half of what is already inadequate to account for the Imperial naval budget. (And contradicts some canonical figures, such as the 8-Tigress squadron).

The best way to account for FSotSI is to assume that this is after years of heavy fighting when squadrons tend to have been whittled down to half size or worse.


Hans

 

[savage]

The best way to account for FSotSI is to assume that this is after years of heavy fighting when squadrons tend to have been whittled down to half size or worse.


Hans

That is an assumption. The same assumption could say Tigress squadrons are different. There are only a few in 5 Sisters. But you are right one really needs to scale the timeframe of each released comment to evaluate what was occurring at that point.

 

[rancke]

That is an assumption.

That it is the best way to account for the squadron sizes in FSotSI without contradicting other canon material? I suppose that strictly speaking it is merely an assumption, but it's one that I haven't yet seen gainsaid by any better explanation in two decades. So until such an assumption comes around, I stand by my assertation.

The same assumption could say Tigress squadrons are different.

No, that would be a different assumption. One that contradicted the information in RbS, which requires a squadron average of 7 combat vessels to fit.


Hans

 

[Dagrill]

The best way to account for FSotSI is to assume that this is after years of heavy fighting when squadrons tend to have been whittled down to half size or worse. Hans

Must say I'm with Hans on this. The clue is in the title with the word "shattered". If it was supposed to be Fighting Ships of the Imperium the word shattered would be unnecessary.

There is a later adventure, Arrival Vengeance, which reduces the size of squadron to a rump of 1-2 ships.

Regards

David

 

[Tobias]

This reduces the cost of an average BatRon to less than half of what is already inadequate to account for the Imperial naval budget.

Not if you use the battleship prices in FSotSI, it doesn't. They range (for the TL 15 ships) from ~GCr 1200 to ~GCr 17000. Then again, they are only there due to the nonsensically and illegally high armor factors. Epic fail in using the MT design system.

 

[rancke]

Not if you use the battleship prices in FSotSI, it doesn't. They range (for the TL 15 ships) from ~GCr 1200 to ~GCr 17000. Then again, they are only there due to the nonsensically and illegally high armor factors. Epic fail in using the MT design system.

In that case I won't use the battleship prices in FSotSI.


Hans

 

[Chuck Anumia]

So then

With these ship numbers I posted as a basis, how do we build a 1,000 ship sector fleet (and reserve fleet?)
Do we just multiply these numbers?
Thanks for your comments and suggestions!

 

[rancke]

With these ship numbers I posted as a basis, how do we build a 1,000 ship sector fleet (and reserve fleet?)

Double the number of squadrons per fleet or increase the ratio of BatRons to CruRons or a combination of both.


Hans

 

[Vargas]

There is a later adventure, Arrival Vengeance, which reduces the size of squadron to a rump of 1-2 ships.

I think that had more to do with the limited number of AHLs in the Marches and not a change in standard squadron size.

 

[Chuck Anumia]

With these ship numbers I posted as a basis, how do we build a 1,000 ship sector fleet (and reserve fleet?)

Double the number of squadrons per fleet or increase the ratio of BatRons to CruRons or a combination of both.

Hans

Excellent idea.
So then perhaps 4- BatRons, 2- CruRons and an AsultRon would make enough ships for a subsector fleet?

 

[rancke]

Excellent idea.
So then perhaps 4- BatRons, 2- CruRons and an AsultRon would make enough ships for a subsector fleet?

Afraid not. At an average of 3½ battleship per BatRon and 6½ cruisers per CruRon, you are talking about 27 combat vessels. To get a subsector fleet of 63 combat vessels, you'd need 2.3 times as many squadrons: 9 BatRons and 5 CruRons.

I got confused, BTW. The suggestion to incread the relative number of BatRons would be in order to increase the cost of a fleet. To get a bigger average number of ships per squadron you'd need to decrease the relative number of BatRons.

The AssaultRon would be an auxiliary formation, not included in the 1000 ship figure.


Hans

Hans

 

[Carlobrand]

I found this in the Fighting Ships of the Shattered Imperium (Pg 9)

BatRon Configuration
3-4 Battleships
1 Tanker
2 Transport ships
3 Scouts
2 Auxiliary ships

CruRon Configuration
5-8 Cruisers
1 Auxiliary ship
2 Scouts
4 Escort class ships

AssaultRon Configuration
1 Cruiser
3 Transport ships
1 Tanker
1 Auxiliary ship
2 Scouts
1 Dromedary
4 Escort class ships

Umm - yuck.

I've got no comment on the core warship element of the squadron, and the supply element is anyone's guess, but this otherwise looks kinda random to me. 2-3 scouts? 4 escorts? Unless you envision a "flag" squadron containing the bulk of the fleet's escort and scouting resources, that doesn't sound like enough to do a reasonable job of either role, and those ships are small enough and cheap enough that you could bring enough along to do the job without it costing too much.

 

[aramis]

The scouts of a ___ron are not likely to be actually assigned to the 'Ron. They're the ones currently with the 'ron. When one comes in with orders, one leaves. Rotational from a larger pool.

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

whats a "Dromedary" in a naval context? some sort of supply ship?


to be honest, those orders of battle look less like "formal peacetime establishent" and more like "scratch force of whatever we had handy scraped together for the mission".

Which is fine, and a natural state of being for most fleets in a middle of a war, but hardly informative about how the 3I organised itself in peacetime......

 

[aramis]

whats a "Dromedary" in a naval context? some sort of supply ship?


to be honest, those orders of battle look less like "formal peacetime establishent" and more like "scratch force of whatever we had handy scraped together for the mission".

Which is fine, and a natural state of being for most fleets in a middle of a war, but hardly informative about how the 3I organised itself in peacetime......

A not-uncommon term for a collier carrying liquid fuel instead of coal.

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

So it's a kind of tanker then? i was just asking becuase it was listed seperately to tanker.

 

[whulorigan]

Dromedary

whats a "Dromedary" in a naval context? some sort of supply ship?

So it's a kind of tanker then? i was just asking becuase it was listed seperately to tanker.

According to MJD in MgT: Sector Fleet p. 26:

Dromedary
A dromedary is a combination tanker/supply ship. Dromedaries often accompany small task forces where the deployment of several support vessels would be wasteful.

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

ah, that makes more sense. thankyou, both of you.

 

[Carlobrand]

The scouts of a ___ron are not likely to be actually assigned to the 'Ron. They're the ones currently with the 'ron. When one comes in with orders, one leaves. Rotational from a larger pool.

I envision a scout's role as more than just messenger boy. I envision a scout's role as, well, scouting: probing the systems ahead, to the flanks and to the rear in order to bring early warning of hostiles. Without something doing that role, the opposing fleets are basically stumbling about in the dark hoping they'll run into each other. However, that requires a rather large number of scouts both scattered among the adjacent systems and running back and forth between the recon groups relaying messages about the fleet's planned movements and reports on what the recons see. It's why I tend to go with the FFW bit about squadrons needing to be organized into fleets for movement: the fleet command holds and coordinates the recon units to provide effective intelligence about the region within 4-5 parsecs of the fleet.

(Of course, that requires a far more effective scout than our traditional J2 scout/courier.)

However, a squadron is still going to need an effective number of scouts for its own needs when it doesn't have the benefit of the fleet's assets. When in a system alone, it needs someone to monitor the local gas giants for the appearance of hostiles. It needs someone to take point when it ventures from the primary to the gas giant or vice versa. Certainly there aren't enough escorts for the task - there aren't even enough escorts to provide a reasonable picket guard. To say that the three scouts that are there are the three that happen to be there between commo runs is to say that the squadron is basically blind within the system it's presently occupying.

I'd have a full squadron of scouts accompanying a ___ron to provide scouting and messenger runs.

 

[savage]

I envision a scout's role as more than just messenger boy.

Yes. Probably both are right. MgT: SF discusses it but the fleet should need a jump scout/messenger and there should be some unassigned that could be reassigned to various fleets.