The Ancients created a few of the races, not most.
T5 MAJOR RACES: ALIENS 1 - 8
- Thread starter Spaceresearcher
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The Ancients created a few of the races, not most.
Real world chimera.
Though why one would want to mix Human and Vargr is a question that I assume can only be answered by "Because we could!", because I really don't see much use for a genetic lack of loyalty and stability.
The Droyne wing thing is cute and occasionally useful, but otherwise I think wouldn't be worth the hassle, but then Warren Worthington III put me off of winged humans.
Now, Human and Hivers mix, that I think might have some damn useful bits, but then I dig Hivers almost as much as I dig the Zhodani.
Does the glow in the dark mouse with transgenic jellyfish genes count, because if we are creating Chimera (even if Experimental or Prototype) here in the no-BS real world then I don't see a problem with TL-C+ civilizations creating even more radical Chimera.
Though why one would want to mix Human and Vargr is a question that I assume can only be answered by "Because we could!", because I really don't see much use for a genetic lack of loyalty and stability.
The Droyne wing thing is cute and occasionally useful, but otherwise I think wouldn't be worth the hassle, but then Warren Worthington III put me off of winged humans.
Now, Human and Hivers mix, that I think might have some damn useful bits, but then I dig Hivers almost as much as I dig the Zhodani.
Spaceresearcher
SOC-12
LOL. In another life you were one of the people who would have said: "Cloning is impossible" and "The speed of sound will never be broken".
Where there's a will, there's a way. Bring on the hybrid plant men with added cybernetic enhancments I say.
NO. In THIS life (and that is the only one I will ever have) I have a respect for science and the scientific method. It is one thing to say that there are things we do not yet understand, and that there are therefore certain aspects of speculative fiction that may be possible (that is the entire basis for Science Fiction in the first place). It is another thing to deliberately deny known facts derived from direct observational science. I am willing to grant a fair amount of leeway and handwaiving regarding potential future science that we do not fully understand today. I am NOT willing to deny observable scientific facts (at least, not without a believable sci-fi rationale as to why the current understanding and/or observations are not a complete picture of "reality").
Reproductive compatibility is NOT an environment-based issue, it is a genetic issue. That is a fact. Genetic Engineering and deliberate creation of hybrid "geneered" creatures is certainly a possibility within the T5 ruleset and OTU background (given a sufficient TL), and was certainly performed by the Ancients. But the questions would be: to what degree would it be attempted by modern Imperial (or Zhodani, or Solomani, etc) scientists, how pervasive would it be, and what would be the reaction of most sapient life-forms who were aware of it. Solomani and modern Imperials have engaged in uplifting non-sapient species as well as modifying species (both sapient and non-sapient) to be able to better survive in hostile or alien environments, but that is a different thing from simply hybridizing two sapient species for casual reasons "just because we can". What would be the purpose for creating such a hybrid? And what would be the ethical considerations?
And, with all due respect, you do not know me well enough to say what I would or would not say about a given speculative topic (in this or any other hypothetical life).
If you wish to engage in Science Fantasy in your Traveller (or other RPG) Campaigns, you are of course welcome to do so.
Your IP was addressed to the T5 forum regarding whether or not there is warrant to spend time (and money) on creating a sourcebook regarding the details of any and all possible Alien Hybrids in the OTU for the Traveller Community:
In order to be viable, there must be a sufficient level of interest and/or desire from said community for the product in question. Since Traveller in general has a following of people who generally prefer a greater or lesser degree of "hard-science" in their Science Fiction, and the OTU has a canonical history, the viability of such a product will first and foremost be based on whether or not said product conforms to these two criteria. I would submit that (at the very least) such a product does not conform to the first (i.e. it is not particularly believable within a reasonably hard-science paradigm for "natural" hybrids to occur, and there is no compelling reason as to why artificial hybrids of this type would be created - at least, not in any significant numbers to warrant a sourcebook). Further, there is no particular canon that I am aware of that mentions "Half-Aslan" or Half-Vargr" creatures (once again, to say nothing of them being common enough to warrant a sourcebook to describe them).
That is my opinion.
Those are indeed the questions. I assume it is rare.
As for artificial hybridization, let's assume for purposes of argument that the panspermia theory is correct and all the aliens use the same nucleotides as we do for their DNA. Even then an Aslan/Hiver hybrid would be an Aslan with some sort of Hiver trait grafted one or a Hiver with some sort of Aslan trait grafted on. It wouldn't be a half-Aslan/half-Hiver centaurioid or a four-limbed Hiver or a five-limbed Aslan.
Hans
Spaceresearcher
SOC-12
No argument from me, your set in your ways. This is Science 'FICTION' and therefore anything goes. The idea of what would it do to society is one avenue for exploration, the idea of what it could do to enhance the entire interstellar community is another. Just because something doesn't suit someone's scientific understanding 'now' which is where your coming from, does not mean it will not suit a future later. As T5 has a far far future setting yet to be unearthed, I'm thinking in terms of that. Surely all the races would not remain the same for thousands of years into the future, either biologically or through understanding and deciding to explore hybrid racial status?? Anyway as you say it's your opinion, there's mine, take it or leave it.
Spaceresearcher
SOC-12
Could all the races deciding to go hybrid, bring about a new race or would they be outcast races?
So how would YOU actually envision that working?
Starting with Earth species for a familiar reference point and ignoring intelligence (we will just handwave that they are all human intelligence) ...
IF I wanted to genetically combine a Wolf, African Lion, Rhinocerous, Gorilla, Bald Eagle and a Starfish ...
... what would the new species be like?
Personally, nothing comes to mind that isn't Centaur or Chimera like in character ... they just have an 'oil and water don't mix' character to them.
But I would be interested in what your mental image is for how this might work.
If you want an outcast population group just make up an ethnic group and give it a bad reputation.
One outcast 'race' that I've been thinking about is a band of krinaytsoyni Droyne that included all three genders and proceeded to procreate. I imagine that that would get the danders of regular Droyne up to an extreme degree.
Hans
No. In order to be science-fiction, there has to be a respect for the "science" part of the category, which is the issue that you are ignoring and that we are arguing about. Otherwise it is mere speculative fiction or science fantasy. It is not "anything goes" if you want to properly come under the heading of science-fiction.
You have largely ignored the points I made in my post.
Some suggested reading:
"http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/respectscience.php "
"http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/06/19/the-alternative-science-respectability-checklist/ "
Actually, T5 so far is largely setting-agnostic, but most of the development to date has been for the Golden Age 1105 OTU. But T5's Galaxiad is in production and is set 800 years into the future beyond this. You need to specify this in your premise if this is the purview of your question.
Maybe, or maybe not. The attitudes toward genetic engineering ("geneering") and artificial hybridization of one's own species with others would depend much on the culture and beliefs of the various species in question. As I mentioned previously, I think cultural Vilani would have a hard time with the concept, as might the Aslan and K'kree. Solomani and other Imperial subcultures' views would likewise be dependent upon their respective cultural outlooks. The Hivers might possibly be interested in exploring such possibilities as befits their curiosity, but that would be a matter for debate.
YOU are the one who asked what CotI members thought about the subject in your initial post. I am simply answering your question. I am sorry it is not the answer you wanted to hear.
Spaceresearcher
SOC-12
Considering the 'Science' in the science fiction has anyone read this yet?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...d-humans-produced-secretively-past-years.html
Vargr/Solomani or Vargr/Vilani???
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...d-humans-produced-secretively-past-years.html
Vargr/Solomani or Vargr/Vilani???
I had not seen this. Thanks for posting it.
Note the reaction of people (in the article proper) upon finding out about this "secret" project (including some members of the scientific community).
Spaceresearcher
SOC-12
Absolutely. It looks like the same would go for a lot of fellow Travellers univereses. So there will be some who may game as an acceptance style universe and some who have the taboo outcast races syndrome.
This brings forth not just biological science issues, but philosophical and societal issues which to me is also good science fiction. Could be very entertaining in a game setting that's for sure. Imagine playing such a character. Perhaps they would be a touch like Spock from Star Trek, with conflicts due to there hybrid existence.
If this sort of testing has been done now, when the research is (pardon me...) embryonic, what sort of experimentation would have been done by the 1110's in the 3I? What sort of disasters or Planet Of The Apes outcomes could have been reached during the Ramshackle Empire, The Long Night, or during the establishment of the 3I that would influence Imperial law and how Imperial culture was oriented towards or away from geneering? Clearly there's modified Humaniti out there that have been altered to better suit the worlds they live on, so those would mostly be positive in impact. What about negative outcomes?
I'm thinking here of something gone horribly wrong needing the palative solution of nuclear fire, or The World of Dr Moreauxvaashnulii...
I'm thinking here of something gone horribly wrong needing the palative solution of nuclear fire, or The World of Dr Moreauxvaashnulii...
"Sophos is as you have stated a 'GREEK' word, it is not an English word and in Greek it essentially means wise."
Let me get this straight, 'english' words are not frequently rooted in other languages? No english word has elements of ancient Greek or Latin or Germanic or French et al.?
English is a living language that evolves and adapts to the time. That's why english dictionaries tend to be updated a lot.
As to using the word sophont, T5 explains the use well enough. The aliens from ALIEN are alien to humans but are not sapient or sentient so we have a word to describe the 'civilized' lifeforms we encounter in science fiction and, in particular, Traveller5. 'Alien' is very generalized and can be bacteria or a fish but 'sophont' describes a higher lifeform we often see as technologically advanced and higher reasoning abilities. I'll stick with sophont.
Let me get this straight, 'english' words are not frequently rooted in other languages? No english word has elements of ancient Greek or Latin or Germanic or French et al.?
English is a living language that evolves and adapts to the time. That's why english dictionaries tend to be updated a lot.
As to using the word sophont, T5 explains the use well enough. The aliens from ALIEN are alien to humans but are not sapient or sentient so we have a word to describe the 'civilized' lifeforms we encounter in science fiction and, in particular, Traveller5. 'Alien' is very generalized and can be bacteria or a fish but 'sophont' describes a higher lifeform we often see as technologically advanced and higher reasoning abilities. I'll stick with sophont.
Which word is used in the Far Future is Marc Miller's decision to make. Seeing as 'sophont' isn't in Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary (though it probably is in Webster's Unabridged) and that in Wikipedia it defaults to 'sentience', I myself would have gone with 'sapient' (you know, as in Homo sapiens), but I don't think the difference is worth getting worked up about.
Hans
Disregarding the sophont vs sapient bit for a moment, they shouldn't have to an advanced technological society to have higher reasoning abilities to be classed as thinking things. That is unless your baseline is living in caves or trees in a hunter/gather society, in which case the ancient Greece and Rome we derive from could be considered advanced.
No real world politic, I know. So I won't comment real world politic. I am just wondering how will look an Imperium sized debate on galactic sized immigration. :CoW: "You are the Alien Ho-mun" :CoW:
I agree that Marc is writing the T5 lexicon by the way. Just wondering, given the difficulty to agree on the vocabulary, how bad it will be when attempting to debate the substance and then to translate it in Rules and Regulation.
Selandia
I agree that Marc is writing the T5 lexicon by the way. Just wondering, given the difficulty to agree on the vocabulary, how bad it will be when attempting to debate the substance and then to translate it in Rules and Regulation.
Selandia
