Stuff is nice. I like stuff too, but I'm afraid I've reached a point in my life when I can no longer acquire stuff for stuff's sake. Physically I don't have any more room for stuff, financially I can't justify spending £20-£30 for something I'll flick through for ten minutes and then set up on my already overburdened shelves (or screaming hard drive). I like to support my hobby too, but my hobby is not exclusively Traveller and though the cost of anything may not break any ones piggy bank, the cost of everything would kill mine.
T5 MAJOR RACES: ALIENS 1 - 8
- Thread starter Spaceresearcher
- Start date
Stuff is nice. I like stuff too, but I'm afraid I've reached a point in my life when I can no longer acquire stuff for stuff's sake. Physically I don't have any more room for stuff, financially I can't justify spending £20-£30 for something I'll flick through for ten minutes and then set up on my already overburdened shelves (or screaming hard drive). I like to support my hobby too, but my hobby is not exclusively Traveller and though the cost of anything may not break any ones piggy bank, the cost of everything would kill mine.
LMAO...I hear you Cutter....for me I have stopped adding to all my other lines, I have started buying anything for/from A Game of Thrones...more for resource perspective not the rules for that RPG. I still collect Pathfinder stuff for the D&D related line, and I buy anything Traveller. For me that is a greatly down sized amount of lines.
My shelves have become over crowed as well too and I have one space to place a half book shelf if my wife will let me. Granted I could fill one of the shelves as it is now...LOL!!! Hmm to find a nice book shelf that would fit in with the rest of the Mission style furniture that is currently there now!
Spaceresearcher
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Spaceresearcher
SOC-12
So far there hasn't been any talk of further releases other than the novels and the new Circus adventure for T5.
With the current main T5 titles having been Kickstarters, do fellow fans feel that the Aliens update books would be best done as a Kickstarter?
With the current main T5 titles having been Kickstarters, do fellow fans feel that the Aliens update books would be best done as a Kickstarter?
mechascorpio
SOC-12
Based on the results of the three Kickstarters I've backed related to T5 so far, I would never, never, never back another T5-related Kickstarter ever again. That well has been poisoned, AFAIC. I feel foolish enough about the hundreds of dollars I've already thrown away. From now on, T5 projects can be financed by others or by traditional means, and I'll wait for the reviews.
Spaceresearcher
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In what way? Sure I can understand with the Fat Cat Fartrader project of which I believe no one who actually backed it has received a thing, however the main T5 rule book was sent, The Circus campaign isn't yet ready for release but it progressing. One book poisons you?
A) Is it set dates not being fulfilled that get's to you?
B) The actual content is not what you wanted?
C) You feel the risk is too great to invest money in Kickstarters due to projects like Fat Cat Fartrader?
D) Too many bad experiences with Kickstarters full stop.
E) All of the above.
I'll have to admit that I would prefer a book was all written and ready to go before backing further projects but then from what I gathered from Fat Cat Fartrader, it was already written. The problem seems to have been the printing side. Alas something must have gone bad with the printer and so far nothing has come to fruition. Also the author promised delivery dates and failed to keep them due to financial crisis(I'm guessing the money was not invested in the Traveller product and instead probably used to fix a financial issue or else all those backers would have the product right now). I can only hope it becomes a reality eventually but so far besides get a single email inviting me to spend my cash to get sets of the deck plans etc, there's been no actual proof of any of the products promised. So I've declined putting a cent into the project and feel bad for fellow Travellers who did.
That aside, the 2 projects I did back 1.The T5 rule book, delivered as promised and 2. The Circus campaign is forth coming and being given regular updates like the T5 rule book.
So if an Aliens book was sanctioned, I for one would certainly back it. My only strong request here would be full colour artwork to accompany the book or books. I'd also be suggesting that a nice large book like the T5 rulebook(possibly slightly smaller but with more colour artwork throughout), contain an update for ALL the major Alien races. That way we don't get yet another collection of a handful of the Aliens with a promise of volumes to follow, but a real update with ALL the classic Aliens updated. I think that would be the best way to go, especially if it's going to be a Kickstarter project. There's a pile of things I'd like to see that would make it vastly different from any Aliens source book ever published before too.
mechascorpio
SOC-12
The current FFE T5 Kickstarter is not even finished with its own deliverables yet. There has not been ONE SINGLE OFFICIAL WORD since the last set of KS books went out. I backed deckplans, no deckplans. I backed a Player's Guide, no Player's Guide. Errata has not been updated in over a month, and (as I've indicated elsewhere) my opinion is that the book that was delivered is a mess.
So you can imply that I blame it all on the Fat Cat Far Trader project if you'd like, but that would not be the case. I've backed over 30 Kickstarter and IndieGoGo game-related projects and, in my opinion, all delivered quality results and met or exceeded their stated goals... except for Traveller 5 related projects and one other.
If any of the people currently involved with the past T5 projects were to actually go out and try to crowdfund another T5 (or any other) project, I would shake my head and laugh out loud. Kickstarter is an investment, a patronage, the backing of a concept. In the case of the T5 KS, I am thoroughly unhappy and unimpressed with how that investment was used. AFAIC, if FFE wants to do an updated Aliens book, they've likely got more than enough money left over from the first KS that was apparently not invested into the production of that book.
So you can imply that I blame it all on the Fat Cat Far Trader project if you'd like, but that would not be the case. I've backed over 30 Kickstarter and IndieGoGo game-related projects and, in my opinion, all delivered quality results and met or exceeded their stated goals... except for Traveller 5 related projects and one other.
If any of the people currently involved with the past T5 projects were to actually go out and try to crowdfund another T5 (or any other) project, I would shake my head and laugh out loud. Kickstarter is an investment, a patronage, the backing of a concept. In the case of the T5 KS, I am thoroughly unhappy and unimpressed with how that investment was used. AFAIC, if FFE wants to do an updated Aliens book, they've likely got more than enough money left over from the first KS that was apparently not invested into the production of that book.
Spaceresearcher
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Fair enough Mechascorpio. Myself I havn't backed any other game projects on Kickstarter, other than Elite Dangerous and some of the spin off novels for it, (which is a computer game) so I can't comment on other projects out there in comparison. In T5's defence it is possibly a lot bigger undertaking. I'm sure after a well earned break that FFE will come forward with the remainder of points. I take it the deck plans your referring to are the 'Fat Cat Fartrader'?
Personally I've been viewing T5 as a Traveller revival and so far to me anyway, I think it's looking great. It's impossible to please everyone at the end of the day but I was saddened to hear that some fans put very valid input into T5's design and it was not acknowledged or taken into account from what I've been reading. Overall though, it's a massive effort for Traveller and for me, even the discussed negatives are not enough to bring it down. There's a lot of gold in that book and I felt it was well worth backing.
mechascorpio
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No. FFE quite clearly offered deckplans as part of the Kickstarter at the higher levels.
Marc, 6 months ago:
In other words, he has not completed the Kickstarter. And why two deckplans for a pair of well-documented ships in the Traveller universe would take over 9 months, I have no idea.
I believe it is because Marc is doing things one thing at a time. First he was concentrating on getting the main shipments out, which took longer than he thought it would. Now he's working on the errata, which is also taking a lot longer than anyone anticipated. It's unfortunate, but it is a higher priority. Plus he may be considering the errata as part of the "game rules being absolutely final", in which case we'd also have to wait until after the errata, or at least that vast bulk of them, are done.
mechascorpio
SOC-12
Sure, that may be the case. But the question was asked, "What if they do the Aliens book as a Kickstarter?" And my point is, "Why should anyone back another Kickstarter when a) he hasn't finished the first KS, and b) he hasn't posted an update about it in over 2 months?"
Spaceresearcher
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I guess it would depend on how many folks have backed at the higher level(which was a lot by the KS page, but then there are a lot of people who backed later as well). I'd imagine, that instead of doing a bit here and a bit there, perhaps there preparing them all at once, to send the lot off in one big blitzkrieg of a send out to wrap it all up. Just a guess.
At the end of the day, what was the main thing we backed the project for? I'm sure for most parties it was 'The Book', which has been delivered. The rest is icing on the cake and surely that shouldn't deter from backing future projects. Just like the books came through, I'm sure the rest will. Remember, set dates are not concrete with Kickstarters, there an estimate only. (Unless you have a mega publishing house like Frontier Developments for example who can work to deadlines). With RPG material, it's not always possible to get those printers into action at a moments notice, often there's a waiting list. Keep in mind that deck plans of the size promised are not small efforts, just take a look at the recent spinward marches map for example in Europe, it's got a hefty price tag because printing maps and charts out at that size is not like printing out a common A4, it's a custom print that's VERY expensive to print, even in volume. Checking out the KS, reveals that it's only the Maps and 'The Players Book' that are outstanding correct? Both of these were added much later in the KS campaign, so hopefully fellow Travellers will understand there would be a gap as these items have to be produced before they can be delivered. In comparison, the book was already written and ready for the printing. I hear what your saying with the common ships, but ultimately it's hopefully going to mean there going to be a touch more special than what we've seen in the past. (Well worth the wait perhaps).
All that said, if I was to undertake one myself, I would have the rewards ready before starting the KS. It's the tacked on rewards which seem to cause the most headache's for backers.
Anyway this is about a new Aliens update and an 'official' update has been a long time coming. (How many years since the never published T4 Aliens book has it been?).
I don't quite see what T4 has to do with it. GT's alien books were 12 years ago and MgT's latest alien book was two years ago.
Hans
It depends. There is *plenty* of material on the OTU aliens out there, so a Kickstarter is not needed.
So now you've got me thinking "what would require a Kickstarter for T5 Aliens?" and I'd say anything with lots of new, color artwork and significant new content (due to the needs for an artist and an editor).
But that's just one scenario. There are three other scenarios:
1. Mongoose Traveller and GURPS Traveller already have alien modules that are useful for any Traveller fan. You'll have to read reviews to decide for yourself which to buy. I would strongly suggest that, at a minimum, the MgT Droyne alien module and the K'Kree alien module will be perfectly fine and canonical, since they are being written by known, respected grognards.
2. FFE can release modified content of the Alien Modules as PDFs on DriveThruRPG or a similar venue. These documents would typically re-use images owned by or accessible to FFE (altho' probably including deckplans for the ship designs), and would run at an estimated 30 pages of text, plus a few more to account for images and a table of contents.
3. As #2, but they could also be printed in digest-sized booklets of about 64 pages each.
Spaceresearcher
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While those two flavours of Traveller have some great material to add to the Traveller universe, there not what I would call official Traveller releases. There third party licensed off shoots that have subtle differences to the canon Traveller especially the Mongoose books from what I've read so far(that is Marc Miller and writers who co-wrote Traveller or official main stream Traveller books), which is Traveller officially released by the creating company or parties thereof. So for myself and many other Travellers, the T4 aliens book, is the last 'official' Traveller Aliens book to date and even that never reached publication until it's release on the T4 CDROM from FFE.
That's what T4 has to do with it.
Spaceresearcher
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I disagree. An update is long over due. Do you know anything more about any of the Aliens building layouts and technology other than snippets in what's available at the moment?
You mention this Mongoose Droyne module. Does it even exist yet? I havn't seen it if it does.(One gaming shop listed a release date of 01/01/2020. I think there can be a very nice T5 Aliens update long before then). Also I've noticed the Mongoose books are starting to disappear from gaming shelves and even the website doesn't have all of them available. The Mongoose site provides no mention of a reprint on these titles either, so they will essentially be PDF available only in the not too distant future.
The 64 page idea is not enough, not if you plan to include layouts of buildings, a serious artwork update and possibly side paragraph blocks. I'd declare a minimum of 100 pages per race. That's not a big effort if you have lot's of artwork to enhance the sections. The T4 Aliens book was a step in the right direction. It's a shame all the races were never completed.
When you examine the modules which came out for the White Wolf systems, I strongly believe Traveller Aliens are worthy of receiving similar treatment.
Each and every update has been gratefully received but there a long way from declaring the information complete or enough let alone plenty by any stretch of the imagination.
They are official Traveller releases. Some people feel that as it applies to an alternate universe, GT material does not apply to the OTU[*], but there's no such ambiguity about MgT material.
[*] Personally I reject that notion, since the GTU is supposedly identical to the OTU up until the Change Point, which means that all information that apply to the GTU prior to some point around 1114 apply just as much to the OTU.
Hans
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The draft, at least, exists. It was a fairly advanced draft, last I saw.
Spaceresearcher
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That's where you are mistaken, particularly on the Mongoose Vargr book. It's version of the Vargr differs to that of the Megatraveller Vargr source material published by DGP markedly. Even the CT module. I take the DGP material over any Mongoose publication any day.
I've got nothing against Mongoose, in fact just like Gurps Traveller, I hope to obtain all the books someday but there not a substitute for an official Marc Miller release and update. Some of the many features added to T5 lead me to imagine there could be a lot of new material in the pipeline for the core races. I'd really like to see a T5 Aliens update.
Spaceresearcher
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I'd like to see it as I really loved the update to the classic Ancients adventure(although it still could have used a lot more maps, building layouts and ship deck plans).
