It doesn't have to be all-or-nothing. Anyone can grab a minor race from any source and see what can be done with it.
It would be nice, I agree.
T5 MAJOR RACES: ALIENS 1 - 8
- Thread starter Spaceresearcher
- Start date
It doesn't have to be all-or-nothing. Anyone can grab a minor race from any source and see what can be done with it.
It would be nice, I agree.
Doyle Hunt
SOC-10
So, the word "telephone" is also made up. How long ago must a word have been made up before it becomes acceptable?
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
Been a Poul Anderson reader since 1977, so you'll get no sympathy from me.
His work also contributed immensely to the baseline of Traveller.
His work also contributed immensely to the baseline of Traveller.
Traveller 5 has a knack for saying where a word originates from, like from Latin, etc. But for "sophont"... nada.
ADDED:
Fount it. So what's the Greek work for alien?
It looks like "sophont" is used only in the Traveller 5 game rules, and not in actual role-play speak. Because I doubt anyone in the far future will be basing their language on Greek or Latin by then. Not with people currently re-writing dictionaries and histories and wikis. People/cultures will probably have their own words to describe other intelligent space-faring things.
ADDED:
Fount it. So what's the Greek work for alien?
It looks like "sophont" is used only in the Traveller 5 game rules, and not in actual role-play speak. Because I doubt anyone in the far future will be basing their language on Greek or Latin by then. Not with people currently re-writing dictionaries and histories and wikis. People/cultures will probably have their own words to describe other intelligent space-faring things.
Are you saying that the Men of Sol will remain just the Men of Sol and end up being a minor race? Ha ha! Alien Races 9 will be about what could have been for us.
Spaceresearcher
SOC-12
ALIEN Race: 10 -> Grrtok - The Dog Men of Space. :rofl:
It's all personal taste, but to me, that word I promised not to say again, does have a greek meaning which has nothing to do with what T5 proclaims it to be.
Some will like it, others like myself do not have a single problem with the classic word: 'ALIEN'.
In my mind, most people are aliens to one another as it is. Another race? They will simply be alien to us. In other words, why not call an alien, an alien? It certainly avoids the need to beat around the bush and if it's something to do with political correctness, then simply put: Political Correctness = Someone who has the mistaken belief that you can pick up a turd by the clean end.
In my mind, if people are feeling they have a need to invent new words because tried and true words have ramifications of some unintentional kind, then seriously, were all in dire straits.
It's cool to be alien. How I'd love to encounter another race and have them call me an alien. Bring it on.
It's all personal taste, but to me, that word I promised not to say again, does have a greek meaning which has nothing to do with what T5 proclaims it to be.
Some will like it, others like myself do not have a single problem with the classic word: 'ALIEN'.
In my mind, most people are aliens to one another as it is. Another race? They will simply be alien to us. In other words, why not call an alien, an alien? It certainly avoids the need to beat around the bush and if it's something to do with political correctness, then simply put: Political Correctness = Someone who has the mistaken belief that you can pick up a turd by the clean end.
In my mind, if people are feeling they have a need to invent new words because tried and true words have ramifications of some unintentional kind, then seriously, were all in dire straits.
It's cool to be alien. How I'd love to encounter another race and have them call me an alien. Bring it on.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
Greek seems to have a foothold in Galanglic, though. Note the "i" ending used frequently for race names, and the family name of the current Emperor (and several of the Duke of Regina's names, for that matter).
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
I like how you project your RPG fiction into our far future.
This *is* a Traveller board, and the OTU is the default setting.
The diaspora of Terran cultures is well established in this setting. We have two distinct Terran ethnic groups documented as having travelled and settled in distant corners. The company that ran Terran settlers into what is now Julian space is identified as Turkish, and the Turks were also the dominant group among those who found and contacted the Darrians. Centuries later they acquired intensely Germanic/Scandinavian neighbors.
By comparison, most of the Rule of Man was apparently settled patchwork style. The odd mixture of Terran-derived world names is the most obvious indicator, but doesn't tell the whole story. Latinate names are all over the place, but Greek influence pops up fairly often as well. Diaspora, Massilia, Antares, and, of course, Delphi Sectors; all Greek names or derivations. Strephon is a Greek name currently in use, and it doesn't get much more Eastern Mediterranean than Alkhalikoi, a hellenized Arabic term.
I've played Traveller before.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
We are all playing Traveller here.
Differently, but all Traveller nonetheless.
Some understand that, some understood it at one time and have forgotten, and some never figure it out.
But we were discussing Vargr...
Oh, right. Wrong board.
Okay. Hellenic, Turkic, Anglic, it's all Greek to me Weak attempt at humor. BUT ANYWAYS...
All I know of the alien modules are the Classic ones, and the Mongoose ones. Plus GURPS' Sword Worlds module -- which is excellent and canonical.
First, what is the purpose of Yet Another alien module covering a major race? It's a supplemental market, isn't it? But T5 has yet to push out the rest of its ruleset. And, anyway, do you really want Traveller to be in competition with itself (T5 vs. Mongoose)?
Maybe you think that's a poor comparison -- maybe you don't like the way Mongoose covered the Vargr, or Aslan, for example. That's an opportunity to fix the Mongoose text into a Version 2.0, not write a competing product.
Here's the thing. Mongoose has a staff of professionals, and a yearly pile of budget to produce all sorts of stuff. Their potential of producing a quantity of supporting material is much better than FFE. And they're licensees.
The opportunity, then, the best route -- in fact, probably the only route at this time to get some of what you want -- is to let Mongoose produce background material, and benefit from Traveller, regardless of version. This is good business for Mongoose, FFE, and Traveller as a whole.
Thus I see the alien books being produced by Mongoose, and not FFE.
What about a third party/fan licensee? ...you may ask. I would say that it is possible: DGP carried Traveller for years. Now ask, is it likely? I would say "not likely to happen". But it's a possibility. But note the professionalism of DGP -- they're more like Mongoose or Steve Jackson Games than just a random couple of fellows writing books while they hold down a day job.
So we're dealing with probabilities, which is why I suggest that Mongoose is the current outlet for supplemental material: they have the license and the pipeline. Maybe in the next 10 years Steve Jackson Games will re-take the premier spot. Right now, though, it's Mongoose.
Weak attempt at humor. BUT ANYWAYS...All I know of the alien modules are the Classic ones, and the Mongoose ones. Plus GURPS' Sword Worlds module -- which is excellent and canonical.
First, what is the purpose of Yet Another alien module covering a major race? It's a supplemental market, isn't it? But T5 has yet to push out the rest of its ruleset. And, anyway, do you really want Traveller to be in competition with itself (T5 vs. Mongoose)?
Maybe you think that's a poor comparison -- maybe you don't like the way Mongoose covered the Vargr, or Aslan, for example. That's an opportunity to fix the Mongoose text into a Version 2.0, not write a competing product.
Here's the thing. Mongoose has a staff of professionals, and a yearly pile of budget to produce all sorts of stuff. Their potential of producing a quantity of supporting material is much better than FFE. And they're licensees.
The opportunity, then, the best route -- in fact, probably the only route at this time to get some of what you want -- is to let Mongoose produce background material, and benefit from Traveller, regardless of version. This is good business for Mongoose, FFE, and Traveller as a whole.
Thus I see the alien books being produced by Mongoose, and not FFE.
What about a third party/fan licensee? ...you may ask. I would say that it is possible: DGP carried Traveller for years. Now ask, is it likely? I would say "not likely to happen". But it's a possibility. But note the professionalism of DGP -- they're more like Mongoose or Steve Jackson Games than just a random couple of fellows writing books while they hold down a day job.
So we're dealing with probabilities, which is why I suggest that Mongoose is the current outlet for supplemental material: they have the license and the pipeline. Maybe in the next 10 years Steve Jackson Games will re-take the premier spot. Right now, though, it's Mongoose.
Spaceresearcher
SOC-12
Does anyone else think, that there should be a slightly 'Star Trek unexplainable space phenomena TM', style alien where the race exists in the vaccuum of space as a kind of wandering mind entity?
It could make some areas of space that would be best avoided. Again making for interesting game play(also giving referees the world over a way of deterring players from going to worlds they really don't want them to by announcing there has been a recent message about system X having the telekenetic Froolum race visiting and there seeking fresh minds).
I'd really love to learn if someone has already invented a Traveller race like this for there games.
It could make some areas of space that would be best avoided. Again making for interesting game play(also giving referees the world over a way of deterring players from going to worlds they really don't want them to by announcing there has been a recent message about system X having the telekenetic Froolum race visiting and there seeking fresh minds).
I'd really love to learn if someone has already invented a Traveller race like this for there games.
Spaceresearcher
SOC-12
VARGR. The DOG RACE IS BACK!!!!
Well to all those who would not even budge on letting me have the 'Dog men of space' and on the CT Alien module for Vargr (which lists 'wolves of space'), what do I see on the official update of the Vargr that came out for Megatraveller?
The Vargr.... "how could this dog race".... right there on page 1 of the Vilani and Vargr coreward races book. It's worth mentioning that there is additional material added to this terrific Alien book by Marc Miller himself, so IT IS CANON!!!
Also the artwork clearly shows the various Vargr(who of course are all individuals) showing what I know the Vargr to be, which is a mix of wolf like and dog like people.
Having read this however, I will point out that perhaps both sides are right on this issue. As I've been saying all along, it's a question of evolution. The Megatraveller data on Vargr explains this very well: The early Vargr(of 300 000 years ago) were substantially different in physiology from the Vargr of today. Massive changes occured between 300 000 and 50 000 years ago.
The time of the ancients intervention was so long ago, that the Vargr are going to have evolved considerably and there is even mention of 'pure' Vargr(no doubt the beloved Wolf line) and non-pure Vargr who for lack of a better term, would be the 'dog' lines.
Well to all those who would not even budge on letting me have the 'Dog men of space' and on the CT Alien module for Vargr (which lists 'wolves of space'), what do I see on the official update of the Vargr that came out for Megatraveller?
The Vargr.... "how could this dog race".... right there on page 1 of the Vilani and Vargr coreward races book.
It's worth mentioning that there is additional material added to this terrific Alien book by Marc Miller himself, so IT IS CANON!!!Also the artwork clearly shows the various Vargr(who of course are all individuals) showing what I know the Vargr to be, which is a mix of wolf like and dog like people.
Having read this however, I will point out that perhaps both sides are right on this issue. As I've been saying all along, it's a question of evolution. The Megatraveller data on Vargr explains this very well: The early Vargr(of 300 000 years ago) were substantially different in physiology from the Vargr of today. Massive changes occured between 300 000 and 50 000 years ago.
The time of the ancients intervention was so long ago, that the Vargr are going to have evolved considerably and there is even mention of 'pure' Vargr(no doubt the beloved Wolf line) and non-pure Vargr who for lack of a better term, would be the 'dog' lines.
Well to all those who would not even budge on letting me have the 'Dog men of space' and on the CT Alien module for Vargr (which lists 'wolves of space'), what do I see on the official update of the Vargr that came out for Megatraveller?
The Vargr.... "how could this dog race".... right there on page 1 of the Vilani and Vargr coreward races book.
Assuming for purposes of argument that the writer actually meant to state with no fear of contradiction that Vargr were derived from Canis familiaris (which I beg leave to doubt), you'd merely have a canon conflict: two or more pieces of canon that are mutually contradictory and cannot both be true at the same time for the same universe. In such a case, you have to weigh the evidence of the individual bits of canon and reject one canonical fact or the other. In this case we would have dozens of bits of evidence against the "fact" that Vargr were derived from dogs versus one single solitary bit of what I'm prepared to bet is viewpoint writing.
As an example of a canon conflict, we have canonical statements
about the Darrian Maghiz having occurred in -1027 and in -1025. Such canonical statements to the contrary nothwithstanding, enough other, equally canonical, statements put the date at -1024 to make me quite ready to contradict anyone who comes along and claims that it took place in -1027, no matter the perfectly canonical support for his claim.One piece of canon does not canon make (unless it's the only statement about its subject).
The rest of your arguments have already been refuted, so I won't waste any time doing so again.
Hans
Spaceresearcher
SOC-12
Actually they were only refuted based on CT and further to that, everyone is in agreement that dogs came from wolves, hence would dog men, not eventually come from wolf men?
In any case, I have no problem accepting that and canon has evolved over the years. Claiming essentially that only CT would be canon, would be flawed which is what all the refuting is based on. The dog like citizens of the Vargr race would be no less Vargr because they are not as wolf like, as saying any human race is less human because of there race.
Inconsistencies aside, all the new material has always been welcomed by this Traveller. Each of the editions has had something great to add, which to me really enriched the overall universe.
I'm really hoping there will be new Alien books and that perhaps even new races might be added to the core books(Especially with the hybrid beings side of things. Extremely interesting days).
In any case, I have no problem accepting that and canon has evolved over the years. Claiming essentially that only CT would be canon, would be flawed which is what all the refuting is based on. The dog like citizens of the Vargr race would be no less Vargr because they are not as wolf like, as saying any human race is less human because of there race.
Inconsistencies aside, all the new material has always been welcomed by this Traveller. Each of the editions has had something great to add, which to me really enriched the overall universe.
I'm really hoping there will be new Alien books and that perhaps even new races might be added to the core books(Especially with the hybrid beings side of things. Extremely interesting days).
