General Tech Level Theft in the Third Imperium?
- Thread starter Spinward Scout
- Start date
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 5K
To be fair, those locations are a little less accessible to the Zhodani Consulate than Darrian/Darrian/Spinward Marches can be ...
I think it would depend on what the 'thing' is and the population in question that the thief is part of. On Ni and Lo Pop Low Tech worlds, they might not know what it is, or if they know, might not need it or know that it will soon be a paper weight or ugly yard art. Unless they know the 'things' value and have criminal connections that can make a profit of it on another planet... maybe. But that would require a high enough volume of theft on the Ni world to make it worthwhile.
On a Low Tech pop 7+, there might be a number of someones who repair off world 'things' and have access to parts for repair through an off world supply chain as there is a population big enough to have enough off world 'things' to need repair. I think those worlds would have a high tech theft problem.
Even thieves have to take supply and demand into consideration, and of course profit versus risk. Grab a hand comp or laser rifle and then have the owner go mercenary on them to get it back.
And then, when population isn't part of the equation, the TL theft could go both ways. A Low TL Item that might be in demand on a higher TL world for some reason, like scientists on a high tech world who want low tech slide rulers. Their world doesn't make them because they don't need them, but they're sooo coool. And only the cool scientist both own and use a slide rule! But due to some regulation or other reason, slide rulers are actually illegal on the high tech world, so they're smuggled from the low tech world, and owners of slide rules are looked down on by their peers...
On a Low Tech pop 7+, there might be a number of someones who repair off world 'things' and have access to parts for repair through an off world supply chain as there is a population big enough to have enough off world 'things' to need repair. I think those worlds would have a high tech theft problem.
Even thieves have to take supply and demand into consideration, and of course profit versus risk. Grab a hand comp or laser rifle and then have the owner go mercenary on them to get it back.
And then, when population isn't part of the equation, the TL theft could go both ways. A Low TL Item that might be in demand on a higher TL world for some reason, like scientists on a high tech world who want low tech slide rulers. Their world doesn't make them because they don't need them, but they're sooo coool. And only the cool scientist both own and use a slide rule! But due to some regulation or other reason, slide rulers are actually illegal on the high tech world, so they're smuggled from the low tech world, and owners of slide rules are looked down on by their peers...
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Silverhawk
SOC-12
But they could have negotiated some restrictions during their application. If the world is a place that the Imperium would really like to have in the fold there might be wiggle room for having some restrictions. It also occurs to me that the Imperium was more concerned about controlling space vs planets so they might not care about restrictions on imports or import taxes as long as Imperial citizens and ships are free to come and go.
But then my mileage seems to be varying.
punkrabbitt
SOC-9
The novel "King David's Spaceship" (at least I think that is the title) had a very interesting view of importing higher tech to lower tech worlds. In their case, it was because those worlds had lost contact are were the traveller equivalent of Red Zones but there is no reason to disbelieve that at least some subsector governments are going to be touchy about technological cross-pollination.
punkrabbitt
SOC-9
Separately, I'll give an example of my own experience in differing Tech Levels, within the nominally same Tech Level. My laptop computer, the one I am typing this on right now, runs from a power adapter which has a cord ending in a three-prong plug; you know the type, two blades and a ground. It was manufactured in 2019. When I go to visit my parents down in San Diego (I live in Las Vegas, about 360 miles away by driving) I need to bring an adapter with me to re-charge my laptop at their home. That house was built in 1964 and only has two-slot power sockets. Even though their house and my laptop will both interface the 120 volts, I can't just walk in and make it work. If I were to go, say, to someplace in Europe, I might need further converters not just for plugs but also for voltage. And there are other places that I can go in this world where a power source for my laptop is simply unavailable. Imagine the differences between Pixie and Edenelt once you get out of the starport district!
Gloriously weird stuff. Always felt like there was a lot more behind it...because he wrote it that way.
Similar, but different: my "combat laptop" (an obsolete Samsung Android tablet that was once a flagship model). Built in '19. Uses a keyboard from a Samsung Q1 UMPC (Win XP "Tablet" with a 7" display!) from '06.(USB-A with a C adapter cable.) Power/charging is USB-C with overvoltage fast charge capability. I use it for in-class note-taking, so all it needs is a decent word processor, a tolerably-functional browser, and a VERY good keyboard (I'm picky).*
Regular USB charging (normal voltage) works, but takes a LONG time. Could use micro or mini USB cellphone chargers from '06-'07 with a LOT of patience and an adapter plug. Could use solar USB charger if grid power was incompatible or unavailable.
1. Old tech isn't necessarily obsolete -- even when it's supposed to be obsolete!
2. There are alternate tech pathways to work around legacy tech sustainment.
-----------
*it's the backup. Primary is a former-flagship Chromebook. Similar charging issues apply.
Last edited:
I just read a collection of his short stories, there is some more, though also a novel called Norstrilia. Though he is more about story than continuity.
The Rediscovery of Man - Wikipedia
BackworldTraveller
SOC-13
The question underlying all of this is "What does Tech Level represent"
I know that nuclear power is available on Earth. I don't have an operating powerplant in my garden and don't have the knowledge or money or skills to build a safe one. I do own a car. I couldn't build one of them either. Nor could I manufacture the drugs or foodstuffs I consume.
Many countries on Earth don't have car manufacturing plants. To take the traveller TL system at face value, they can't, therefore, operate cars.
I know that nuclear power is available on Earth. I don't have an operating powerplant in my garden and don't have the knowledge or money or skills to build a safe one. I do own a car. I couldn't build one of them either. Nor could I manufacture the drugs or foodstuffs I consume.
Many countries on Earth don't have car manufacturing plants. To take the traveller TL system at face value, they can't, therefore, operate cars.
This is my thought on the subject. On planets that don't need any technology to survive, the TL is what the population can sustain. On planets that you need technology to survive, if the TL is lower than what you need to survive, then what you need to survive is either brought with you or supplied to you with regular deliveries. If a planets population is high enough, there might be some trade with a higher TL planet, and so some high TL goods can be found on the lower TL planet and vice versa.
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 5K
Uh ... no.
It just means that they can't (or don't) manufacture cars. They can't supply them from domestic sources.
Demand for cars is a different thing (see: imports).
Being able to operate a car is a skill, not a tech level "permission" breakpoint.
Kakistocrat
SOC-12
Given that the Non-industrial trade classification is solely based on population, I’d offer Switzerland as a counterexample — it’s a jurisdiction with a population digit of 6 in the 19th, 20th, and 21st centuries (which if it were a world, would qualify it as Non-industrial) that nonetheless established indigenous manufacturing industries. Until 1860, its industries were self-sufficient; even the raw materials and energy sources were Swiss.
Yes and no. At the required TL, operating a car can be a default/implicit skill that one is assumed to have. Below that, it's a job skill that one would need to seek out training for, if it was even available.
Maintenance, if only operator maintenance (check fluids, tires)? Included in the Traveller skill, might not be if it's a TL-enabled assumed skill.
It's complicated.
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 5K
... and what was the global population during those eras you've cited while the Government code was 7 at the time?
Well if that’s a factor, we have to consider that the subsector surrounding our Non-Ind worlds could be providing that support boost to facilitate local support production.... and what was the global population during those eras you've cited while the Government code was 7 at the time?
Or more fiddly modeling, if enough tech, pop and starports to support x tonnage on the trade routes.
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 5K
Please compare apples to apples.
Not apples to displacement tons of liquid hydrogen ...
I’m looking at transport times, people ran empires with as many or more weeks transit times.Please compare apples to apples.
Not apples to displacement tons of liquid hydrogen ...
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Are we on globalization, or in this case, cosmopolization?
The factors of space and time apply, in that as long as the goods arrive just in time, they take up on space in the warehouse.
The factors of space and time apply, in that as long as the goods arrive just in time, they take up on space in the warehouse.
Similar threads
