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The Imperial Army

I just pointed the fact, not saying I agree with it.

I agree MT is full of errata (perhaps its main flaw, in what otherwise I think the best Traveller version), but his point is not listed as one (even if it might well be, I guess not all have yet been identified).

Aside from population multiplier, I've always believed some other points should modify the troop number (e.g. a goverment code 7 is likely to have quite more troops than a 2, even if most of them are busy watching, or outright fighting, each other).
 
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I agree, and I would expect balkanized planets to be pretty heavily militarized. One assumes there's a reason all those nations can't get along.
 
2_1197_SLIB.jpg


The unit in question, I don't think I can go smaller than this without killing one's eyes.

edit: 3rd revision, added trepidas and took out vrf gg's because I figure the unit is vrf gg g carrier equiped as standard.

Your organization chart seems sound. It's been years since I've seen one, even doing a miniatures' game. What would be even more interesting would be something describing the nobility chain of of command. Something like that command organization chart in the Rebellion Source Book where we see the Emperor at the top funneled down to field commanders and the sector archdukes.

There's bound to be something regarding the Imperial Army where there's joint command for some armies. A duke or duchess must have some kind of sway over their marshals and generals.

More importantly would not the Imperial Army have "anti-starship" batteries? Planetary defensive commands? Massive batteries or missiles or some other measures meant to repulse a fleet? In other words, fortifications. I would expect Army units of any empire would do more than just hunker down and hope the Zhos/Aslan/whoever will go away when their ships come out of jump.

Thoughts?
 
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Your organization chart seems sound. It's been years since I've seen one, even doing a miniatures' game. What would be even more interesting would be something describing the nobility chain of of command. Something like that command organization chart in the Rebellion Source Book where we see the Emperor at the top funneled down to field commanders and the sector archdukes.

There's bound to be something regarding the Imperial Army where there's joint command for some armies. A duke or duchess must have some kind of sway over their marshals and generals.

More importantly would not the Imperial Army have "anti-starship" batteries? Planetary defensive commands? Massive batteries or missiles or some other measures meant to repulse a fleet? In other words, fortifications. I would expect Army units of any empire would do more than just hunker down and hope the Zhos/Aslan/whoever will go away when their ships come out of jump.

Thoughts?

Thanks! It is actually a bit more work than it looks maybe and I still see some revisions to it I would like to make (SPAA, LMG, etc.); though I made it to show what a brigade might look like in response to earlier questions regarding how light the Corps looked in supporting units. This dovetails into your question of anti-starship batteries, while the brigade does have anti-starship capability with the Laser AA and Missile launchers, I think heavy anti-starship batteries would be considered "siege artillery" and be attached from the Army level as needed. So a brigade, if it was operating where they would think the needed such artillery, would have that unit attached from above, and where it wouldn't, like the counter insurgency work on Efate vs the Ine Givar, they would not need it.

For Nobility, I think, like the Rebellion Sourcebook and Spinward Marches Campaign, that similar to the Navy, there would be a parallel command structure. Sort of a triumvirate of Nobility, Navy and Army; with each acting in areas suited to their abilities. Thus the nobility: civil administration, navy: interstellar warfare and the army: planetary warfare; the areas can and do overlap I think.
 
Prepared defenses? I picture entrenched PA and Meson Spinal mount type weapons but a lot because your not limited by tonnage. New defenses umm better hope the fleet shows back up to break the siege.
 
Back to the Army;

I wonder what kind of batteries the Army would have to repulse a fleet.

From Striker: "Planetary defenses are of two types: active and passive. Active systems are designed to inflict damage on enemy starships attempting to bombard the planet or land troops, while passive defenses limit the ability of enemy forces to inflict damage on the world.

"The most common form of active defense is the deep meson gun site. A deep meson gun is a meson gun of ship ordnance size burried in a deep underground chamber. As the planet itself is transparent to the meson beam, the meson gun can fire at any target desired, while the site itself is effectively impossible to locate. Only when the gun site's surface sensors and target acquisition devices have been destroyed or captured can the gun be silenced, this generally requiring the use of ground troops or extensive planetary bombardment. At lower tech levels, laser and missile sites are used as well, but are much less effective and more vulnerable.

"Passive defenses center on major population concentrations, and take the form of damper projectors and large (city-sized) meson screens. The atmosphere of a planet itself provides an effective shield against long-range laser and particle accelerator fire, although vacuum worlds lack this protection and thus generally surrender if an enemy bombardment force penetrates it s system defense boats."

Invasion Earth presented a number of planetary defense troop units of corps size (100 batallions), division size (20 batallions) and regiment size (10 batallions). According to IE: "PD units are collections of energy weapons and missiles capable of engaging naval units bombarding the surface of a world. Each has an instrinsic garrison assigned to it; hence, a PD unit is rated and treated similarly as a troop unit. Most PD units are large, static installations and are immobile, while a few small PD units are mounted on grav vehicles."

Their basic function was to strike back at fleet elements that tried to bomb the world surface. They struck at full strength against ships on bombing runs (within 3 hexes - about 1200 km - of the unit) but only half strength against ships in the close orbit box, and they couldn't reach the far orbit box (which included the moon). The divisions and corps were fixed, couldn't be moved once placed: they represented fixed installations of some sort, possibly deep meson sites - defended by ground forces of the indicated size, of course - and would be parked near high-value targets like the starports or big cities. The regiments were grav-mobile, presumably mounting missiles since that would be easiest for a vehicle-mounted surface-to-orbit weapon - wouldn't need to carry the kind of power that meson weapons need; being mobile, they tended to get used to defend troop concentrations as the troops moved about the board.

The troop units themselves, even the field army sized units, did not have a surface-to-orbit attack capability - at least, not one that was significant in game terms. They depended on the PD units and SDBs, which made a certain amount of sense because the scale of firepower of even the little mobile PD regiments were on the same rough scale as an SDB squadron or cruiser squadron, and a PD corps could match a couple of battle squadrons. Doesn't mean the larger troop units didn't have some small organic surface-to-orbit artillery contingent, say something big enough to persuade a destroyer or two to think twice. Does mean, for the purpose of that game, that it wasn't enough to play a significant role if a cruiser squadron showed up.

Particle beams wouldn't work. According to the game, they can't punch through atmosphere. I've not the foggiest if that's true or not.
 
Back to the Army;

I wonder what kind of batteries the Army would have to repulse a fleet.

Mobile elements would be ground: factor 4 meson guns, cross-referencing the meson gun from the back of LBB4 with LBB5 and to use a term from AndrewMV a lot of missile launchers to "nibble to death by hamster" enemy ships; fixed would be large meson gun emplacements, missile batteries, etc.. As Carlobrand mentioned, and it may seem incongruent for the army, esp looking at chargen, the army should have large fleets of SDB's and fighters for use in ground attack role as well for anti-ship work.
 
See? This is what you get for not buying ALL the games and supplements. I never had Stryker. I saw it several times on the store shelf, but the thing distinctly said "miniatures" so I gave it a pass, along with any content inside.

Well, I guess I have my answer then. That's pretty interesting. I would imagine those installations would be heavily defended by Imperial regulars.
 
I bought striker, back then, sold it without ever playing it except as a test a few times, it never had much support, nor from an engineering standpoint did it make much sense. I really just ignore it.
 
To be honest I think I remember the Meson Gun thing, but I can't remember for the life of me what other book I read that in, or whether someone told me about it or something. Previously I always had this notion that somehow Army units would have to hunker down and hide until after the bombardment or when the marines of whatever force came pouring in.

I think planetary defense batteries are even more of a reason for the Imperium to have a regular standing army, particularly in the Marches (our favorite place) to keep those units active and protected. It serves as another ding to the GT establishment that there is no army, other than the disparate forces scattered throughout the various planets. To me that's kind of crazy. Particularly when planets have to defend themselves from fleets great and small.

The more I think about it, the more I remember not liking the meson gun thing. I think it was some guy in my drafting class who told me about it many moons back. I can't remember my initial reaction, but I was wondering how a fleet ever laid siege to a world with such massive defenses. Guns the size of ships plus shields of all sorts. Wow.

You'd think the Zhos, Vargr and Aslan would have thought things a little more thoroughly before trying a land grab for the Imperium.
 
The Zhos have no interest in a land grab of Imperial worlds - their aim is to halt Imperial expansion.

The Vargr stand no chance of organising an offensive big enough to challenge the Imperium, and finally the Aslan don't just take worlds by force, they set up squatter camps, buy land, earn land grants etc.
 
Yeah, but the point being that a real Imperial Army by itself would be sufficient deterrent for either one of them by themselves. Which is why the Zhos had to organize that coalition with Vargr and Swordys.

You've got to wonder what the Emperor and Moot think of the Marches. I bet keeping a standing army is part of that worry.
 
Something just crossed my mind. My memory says the 3I only protects the highport and Imperial downports. This is akin to embassy duty. So now you dont need a large Imperial force nor is the world a network of Meson batteries. So you could have a 3I with just marines as a garrison and planetary units being the main defense. This means you could take a world from orbit.

An army may be created when it comes to offensive operations which may explain the time lag in most of the Imperial wars. The bad guys invade, marines try and defend, marines get pushed around, call for army created probably at domain level, Imperial offensive begins.
 
MT, RS, pg 36 & 38

The Armies of the lmperium

IMPERIAL FORCES


The lmperium maintains standing mllitary forces In order to
provide security for its bases and governmental offices, and
in order to maintain peace and order. Imperial forces range
In slze from armies to platoons. Higher level units (armies,
corps, divisions) coordinate wlth local popular forces and include
them in their span of control. Lower level unlts make up
the reaction forces of the lmperium and are generally mobile
units which can respond quickly when trouble flares up.
 
MT, RS, pg 36 & 38

The Armies of the lmperium

IMPERIAL FORCES


The lmperium maintains standing mllitary forces In order to
provide security for its bases and governmental offices, and
in order to maintain peace and order. Imperial forces range
In slze from armies to platoons. Higher level units (armies,
corps, divisions) coordinate wlth local popular forces and include
them in their span of control. Lower level unlts make up
the reaction forces of the lmperium and are generally mobile
units which can respond quickly when trouble flares up.

ok ill keep my mouth shut now
 
This would be so much easier if Marc could be paid to hangout here and just answer Traveller Questions. Thats a kickstarter... waiting to happen or maybe a supplement for T5 just a question and answer book though written in character like a history lecture.
 
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