Yeah I can support that
General The infantry laser problem
- Thread starter Carlobrand
- Start date
You can alway have your PGMP/FGMP or laser rifle plug into the fusion reactor of your grav tank or APC
Yes, Snapshot rules are quite symilar to LBB1 combat, but there you're less concerned about casuaties, as in a RPG you're assumed to impersonate your character, and so be afraid of his dead, while on a wargame (no matter how tactical) you're not so involved.
So, LBB1 rules are too deadly? No, if you intend for players to avoid combat and look for other solutions.
In fact, IMHO it should be more, as the likewhood of dying from a single hit in LBB1 is low. And even in LBB4 weaponry most of it are unlikely to kill you with a single shoot, unless you use support weapons (a Gauss Rifle "only" does 4D damage, so the likehood to kill a standard character (777) is quite low, and to have a 6D+ weapons you must resort to Auto Cannon or explosive RAM at least...
Just a correction, since the actual discussion is as pointless as it was the last several times:
A Gauss rifle gets two or three to hit chances against a single target. And since all of those will usually hit, you're looking at 8D or 12D damage, which usually kills. This applies to most automatic weapons.
In any event, the outcome of "everyone is incapacitated within 15 seconds, then whoever wakes up first slits the throats of the still-unconscious enemies" is not more, but less functional than everyone dying right away.
Book 1 CT combat is barely, if at all, functional with Book 1 weapons. It is complete slapstick comedy with Book 4 weapons. It's got nothing to do with being risky or giving incentives for non-combat resolutions, it's just bonkers.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Basically, infantry squads should be built around heavy weapon teams.
Theoretically, taxied to the battlefield with armoured fighting vehicles.
Though, it appears that golf carts and Scoobie vans are reasonable alternatives.
Smallarms are, at this point, more personal defence weapons.
The laser weapon system should be considered about the same as a light machine gun.
Theoretically, taxied to the battlefield with armoured fighting vehicles.
Though, it appears that golf carts and Scoobie vans are reasonable alternatives.
Smallarms are, at this point, more personal defence weapons.
The laser weapon system should be considered about the same as a light machine gun.
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
Agreed, but now design a similar weapon at TL-14... Fighting a few TLs uphill is not a fun experience, the only compensation is numbers.
A high tech gauss anti-materiel rifle will penetrate a DB. It will probably be clumsier than a gauss assault rifle, perhaps at par with a laser rifle.
Then we almost agree, I give Marines the best, just because the cost is irrelevant when you include the cost of the ship that took them to the fight.
That does not make my point void: it will not usually kill you on a single shoot.
Gauss rifle is said in LBB4 to be a sniper rifle, and, AFAIK (I have no military experience), most snipers would use single shoot option and have a good ratio of killing.
How does actually last a close combat firefight once shjooting starts (maneuvering uses to come first, I understand)?
Afain for what I know (little), a SWAT assault, to give you an example, uses to last quite less than 15 seconds and to be quite incapacitating, if not letal (unless non-letal weapons are used, of course)
Curious, I see them as totally opposed doctrine...
LMGs are high rate of fire, low precision weapons, thought to blast an area and hope some bullets will hit (or at least keep the enemy supressed).
Laser weapons, OTOH, are high precision, low rate of fire weapons, expected to hit with every shoot
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Depends on what you intend them for.
They're accurate, relatively long range, and tend to make the other side keep their head down.
They're accurate, relatively long range, and tend to make the other side keep their head down.
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
Quite, and a group firing at another group means everyone will potentially hit every enemy, i.e every combatant is hit by several enemies possible several times. Everyone dies the first round is normal with automatic weapons unless you apply heavy negative DMs.
On the other hand, some dude with a panzerschrek or an RPG doesn't have a whole lot of emissions (outside of their own heat signature, and that can be masked with preparation), and their weapon hasn't got any electronics (especially if you replace the pizeo-electric fuse of an RPG-7 with a pure mechanical one) to jam or confuse. If the TL-14 guys don't have a PD system (and in Striker they won't unless they've got vehicular support) they're in trouble. The return fire or fire support mission removes the RPG user from the map, of course, along with the building he was in, etc. if that's what the TL-14 guys want, but to me that's as it should be - lower TL opponents can, with prep and support weapons, hurt high TL opponents, but at a high cost.
Autorifles are pretty over-powered, in my experience. Book 4 just hands out things that are autorifles on steroids.
That's not what its combat stats say it's for though - it's got a very high rate of fire and a large magazine. That does not yell out 'sniper rifle'. They aren't that much more expensive than ACRs (which are described as being general issue), and their ammo costs the same per shot.
Where it's said laser rifles/carabines has a very high rate of fire?
- Not in TTB (and so I guess neither in LBB1)
- Nor in AHL, where it has no auto fire capacity
- Nor in MT(PH) (albeit not being CT), where it has no autofire capacity
I was replying to a comment about gauss rifles, at least that's what I intended, and so was discussing them.
Then it's clear I missunderstood you... I agree on the GR, but LBB4, Overveiw of the Equipment section, page 43 says:
On latter TLs, it's a more standard weaponm though...
Ooh, a TL14 light assault gauss rifle. That would be something to see.
It's also more than just a little mind-boggling how a 10-round burst allows three hits against a primary target and one each against four adjacent targets. And all will usually hit in the case of a Gauss Rifle.
Yeah, I just disagree with that, given its stats and price. TL-12 societies should be able to afford Cr1500 rifles for their troops if TL9-10 societies can afford Cr1000 ones for theirs. LBB laser rifles at Cr5000 each are a bit less affordable, let alone the TL-13 ones of Striker.
I have shot up more Toyotas and Nissans than I care to count
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