The Solomani, not just bad guys anymore

[Condottiere]

The Royal Navy encouraged aggressiveness in it`s officer corps, of which they had enough ships and crews to afford some disposability.

You can compare the Pursuit of Goeben and Breslau, Coronel, and Falklands.

As regards the Solomani Party, it`s a big tent by necessity, and competing viewpoints and interests can be expressed, as long as no heresy is committed.

 

[Ulsyus]

As regards the Solomani Party, it`s a big tent by necessity, and competing viewpoints and interests can be expressed, as long as no heresy is committed.

But that all comes crashing down if SOLSEC is after a period of time run by hardline Sol-supremists. The tendancy to authoritarianism, if not checked each generation, could lead them down the path were it's not so much the Party itself that is a broad church, but the Sphere itself, with different political entities within the confederation maintaining their own independence from the Party while staying within the broader state.

 

[McPerth]

If the Solomani Party is the only game in town, then feelings about its efficacy or anything else just don't matter

But there are many factions in the Solomani Party, and sure they compete one another for the votes.

So to say, the primary elections are the true ones, as they decide the only candidate that can run the elections...

 

[Ulsyus]

But there are many factions in the SOlomani Party, and sure they compete one another for the votes.

So is it canon that SOLSEC doesn't rule operate as a secret police or autocratic and unaccountable state security organisation? I'm curious about the level of authoritarianism that exists within the Sphere (and I'm currently away from home so don't have my references with me to look up myself)

 

[McPerth]

So is it canon that SOLSEC doesn't rule operate as a secret police or autocratic and unaccountable state security organisation? I'm curious about the level of authoritarianism that exists within the Sphere (and I'm currently away from home so don't have my references with me to look up myself)

IIRC at least 3 major factions are told about among the Solomani Pary: the Humanists, the Sophontists and the Moderates. Probably there are minor factions too, and, also probably, some that might even be majoritary in specific regions of the Sphere...

ANd, as long as they don't overly talk against the Solomani Manifest Destiny, they are tolerated by SolSec.

 

[Condottiere]

Supposedly balanced, between Party, Security and military.

Issues tend to arise if someone starts centralizing control of all institutions in one figure, or allows one institution to dominate.

 

[Krikkitone]

Supposedly balanced, between Party, Security and military.

Issues tend to arise if someone starts centralizing control of all institutions in one figure, or allows one institution to dominate.

It probably fluxuates between waves of autocracy(as a single leader consolidates power..leading to more oppression) and reform(to allow better economic output). The factor that the Solomani have stronger local authorities is probably what keeps the it from completely consolidating into a permanent dictatorship.

 

[Timerover51]

I go with that all of our information on the Solomani is filtered through the views of the Imperium. Note, I was playing Imperium, and enjoyed playing Terra and beating on the Imperium. As a Terran, I view the Imperium more as the bad guys, especially what happened with MegaTraveller and The New Era.

 

[Condottiere]

Wolfe could have done so, being Grand Admiral before becoming General Secretary, and having the respect of the proletariat.

But he decided to concentrate on rebuilding the economy, and decentralizing the military to form the Home Guard.

 

[Ulsyus]

How cannonical is MgT? From their Alien Module 5-Solomani:

For most Solomani its institutions are just the way things work rather than some authoritarian regime imposed upon them.
p30

 

[Krikkitone]

How cannonical is MgT? From their Alien Module 5-Solomani:

That could be said about almost any social organization that was not imposed by a clearly “outside” group. (particularly if it has been around for at least 1 generation). Feudalism, absolute monarchies, Soviet Russia, etc.
“just the way things work” doesn’t mean it’s not authoritarian, just that it’s not worth resisting (it also doesn’t have to be authoritarian…it could be it’s ‘good enough’ just imperfect…like all sophont social structures)

 

[Condottiere]

It could also be that Solomani Party politics have little effect on most citizens' lives.

 

[Ulsyus]

That could be said about almost any social organization that was not imposed by a clearly “outside” group. (particularly if it has been around for at least 1 generation). Feudalism, absolute monarchies, Soviet Russia, etc.
“just the way things work” doesn’t mean it’s not authoritarian, just that it’s not worth resisting (it also doesn’t have to be authoritarian…it could be it’s ‘good enough’ just imperfect…like all sophont social structures)

Travelling somewhere and seeing how others live gives a great perspective on our own society, so I agree with you on the just-the-way idea. Do you think the Solomani would carefully vet those who travel outside the sphere so that they don't bring back contaminating ideas and thoughts?

Also I never liked the use of what has become the symbol of the KKK/Aryan Nation (the circled cross) as the symbol of the Solomani. I understand that this was done on purpose to keep the players Imperial, but I think that the majority of the players would have chosen the Imperial side anyway.

This stereotype of despotic overlords and omnipresent secret service bothers me. The Imperium has just as wide an intellegence arm as the Solomani, and can be just as repressive.

On the first point, I'd never imagined it that way, but rather as a stylised Terra.

On the second, that sort of stereotype should bother people. Given the quote above, do you think it's beyond reason to be accurate?

 

[Condottiere]

Brave New World and Nineteen Eighty Four.

Plus, you encourage the dissidents to colonize on the periphery or migrate.

 

[Ulsyus]

Brave New World and Nineteen Eighty Four.

Probably more the former than the latter: think Tik Tok with even more algorithm intervention by the state

Plus, you encourage the dissidents to colonize on the periphery or migrate.

Who cares if they're peacenik Amish to start off with: once the colony has some infrastructure established the loyal citizens can be provided supplementation to turn the colony back towards the Party, I mean the homeworld.

 

[Condottiere]

At some point, different groups of migrants will settle there, and they'll be more materialistically minded.

 

[Timerover51]

Who cares if they're peacenik Amish to start off with: once the colony has some infrastructure established the loyal citizens can be provided supplementation to turn the colony back towards the Party, I mean the homeworld.

Having just come back from a weekend in the Amish area of Indiana, I am not sure you understand how little infrastructure the Amish need. As for whatever you mean by turning the colony in a different direction, people have been trying for centuries to do that to the Amish. The Amish are still here and their numbers are growing.

 

[Condottiere]

West of Honor (1976)
(The second book in the CoDominium series)
A novel by Jerry Pournelle

It was meant to be paradise - a haven for those who could no longer bear the complicated turmoil of Earth. And Arrarat was just that - until authorities on Earth turned it into a penal colony. Now its agricultural communities are suddenly threatened by gangs of convicts and the peaceful colony is in shambles. Military academy was Hal Slater's escape. Now he finds himself on Arrarat, an inexperienced junior officer, committed to restoring peace through more violence.

West of Honor (CoDominium, book 2) by Jerry Pournelle

West of Honor (CoDominium, book 2) by Jerry Pournelle - book cover, description.

www.fantasticfiction.com

 

[Timerover51]

West of Honor (1976)
(The second book in the CoDominium series)
A novel by Jerry Pournelle

It was meant to be paradise - a haven for those who could no longer bear the complicated turmoil of Earth. And Arrarat was just that - until authorities on Earth turned it into a penal colony. Now its agricultural communities are suddenly threatened by gangs of convicts and the peaceful colony is in shambles. Military academy was Hal Slater's escape. Now he finds himself on Arrarat, an inexperienced junior officer, committed to restoring peace through more violence.

West of Honor (CoDominium, book 2) by Jerry Pournelle

West of Honor (CoDominium, book 2) by Jerry Pournelle - book cover, description.

www.fantasticfiction.com

I am not sure if you are replying to my comment or not. England did start a penal colony. It was called Australia. I do not recall it disturbing the agriculturalist of either the UK or the United States. A planet can be a very big place.

 

[Condottiere]

The plot goes that a religiously inclined settled colony gets chosen as the dumping ground for transported prisoners; deliberately so, as minerals are discovered by a megacorporation.

The prisoners either form gangs, or are preganged, and start insisting on protection money from the farmers, and strangely, seem very well armed.