The Solomani, not just bad guys anymore

[aramis]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BenBell:
Someone earlier was complaining about the use of the Circled cross as the Solomani symbol. I beleive it was used for one reason.
The circle and cross design is the astronomical symbol for Sol, our sun. So I would say that was the reason for the symbol.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, not for the sun (The sun is a dot inside a circle), but for Terra itself. FYI: Venus is a cross below and attached (same as the symbol for woman). Mars is a circle with an arrow comming off the 1:30 clock position, same as the symbol for mars. (Source is "Our Universe", National Geographic, published either early 80's or late 70's.)

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-aramis
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Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!

 

[Murph]

Agreed. Although certain white supremecists groups have adopted this one as well. I think the Solomani could be fun. DGP had an excellent suppliment on the Solomani. I just think that the Solomani Sphere should be larger to rimward.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aramis:
No, not for the sun (The sun is a dot inside a circle), but for Terra itself. FYI: Venus is a cross below and attached (same as the symbol for woman). Mars is a circle with an arrow comming off the 1:30 clock position, same as the symbol for mars. (Source is "Our Universe", National Geographic, published either early 80's or late 70's.)

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

[Elliot]

The circle/cross symbol is currently the symbol of those right-wing groups who exist under the banner of the Internation Third Position (Mussolini: Fascists are neither capitalists nor socialist but hold the third position: national socialism [Paraphrase!]).
This includes some very nasty racist thugs and I think that it is no coincidence that GDW chose the symbol for the Solomani, given they were presented as a politically unviable joke prior to the Rebellion.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I just read through this thread, and I have to say I agree with Murph and others regarding a more open society, and less police-like or repressive, for the Solomani.

I never bought that whole "Supremacist" bit of fiction. It just didn't make anykind of sense, or rather its basis was rather loosely defined. Especially since the interstellar entity that was comprised of Terrans was a Confederation, and not a "united state" or other, more solid, unit. I remember using the CT Sol Alien modual to generate a group of characters for our gaming group, and the rest of the players didn't really buy into the whole Solomani (we preferred Terran, or the kampy "Earthmen" nomenclature) superiority complex. We liked the fact that a retaking of Earth was in the works, and that finally we could visit "our home" in the Traveller universe.

I also always felt they, the Terrans, got short shrifted on the tech side of things, being delegated to tech-level 14 and not receiving an equivalent assignment of tech-level 15 (as per most other races). Afterall these folks, at one time, did defeat the Imperium. Regardless of the Long Night, I think the Terrans would've come out of the dark ages a little better than what was written in the Alien Supplement.

I guess it's too late to ask for a change in the fiction, and although I should probably post this in the "My Universe" thread I'll state that when I use Solomani they're very cosmopolitan, free and open. Although they do have a bit of a "Freedom Fighter" complex when it comes to Earth's occupation

 

[MT++]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Blue Ghost:
Regardless of the Long Night, I think the Terrans would've come out of the dark ages a little better than what was written in the Alien Supplement.B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Would we really?
Over 800 people have been lybched in the Congo because people thought they were penis shrinking sorcerers.
The Taleban has forbidden people to own songbirds because they might make their owner sing an forget about praising Allah
I have no doubt when times get tough, Terrans will be bigoted. Remember our enlightened times are only a little over 30 years of age and active, open hatred is ongoing throughout our world (Balkans, Africa, China, Afghanistan).
Part of me wants the Solomani to be the good guys, after all, to quote Walt Kelly, they is us!
No one wants to admit they were wrong. It was someone else. Terra was a rising star until...they took over the Vilani Empire.
What did that do?
Well, obviously their corruption and treachery undermined us and our glorious virtues.
Sound familiar?
It should, it has happened sadly so many times, but is freshest from Germany earlier this century.
Or we possess a certain spirit. That spirit gives us the right to rule. We are warriors, with a divine right to rule.
Japan 1930's-1940's
Our ideology is pure, we have historic inevitability on our side.
Soviet Union 1920's-1990
The Solomani are the bad guys of the 20th Century rolled into one.
GDW and DGP were wise to avoid the last evil of the Human Grief Quartet, religion
I think that might have provoked a little flame war or two?
Like the Klingons of Star Trek being the Russians, and Romulans the CHinese, The Solomani were the unsubtle bad guys of the 20th C. The Zhos are the more subtle later ones (late Soviet Union and Communist China)

 

[Blue Ghost]

I think it's apples and oranges, primarily because Solomani Space was supposed to be treaty government; i.e. smaller nations agreeing to to cooperate as one with one another. As such each nation would have its own identity, and I can't see a universal dogma sweeping over what most assuridly are different cultural and ethnic backgrounds. It just wouldn't happen. Or if it did, it wouldn't happen like that, because Terrans, as a race, are no homegeneous. There may be some general differences between Vilani and Terrans, but I don't think they would be any more pronounced than say Massai and Japanese people.

Myself, I wouldn't mind seeing a little religous conflict among minor powers in Traveller. I mean they introduced the ethnic and racial aspect, albeit benignly. I think a war of religion in Traveller might have a place somewhere in some region of the galaxy. Maybe something mocking the current our current turmoil in the Middle East.

 

[Elliot]

Two things

The war of religion thing of the last post is a cool idea for the Solomani - and as the the English Civil War and the French Wars of Religion show, a religious war can be as much about politics as religion.

As to the horrors of the C20-C21th (Taliban, Nazi, Stalinist etc), I don't think that such military regimes are sustainable over the sort of space that the Solomani possess or would be sustainable if the history of Terra was known (This might provide a good adventure Patron = to publicise old earth's liberal history to Soly dissidents)

Lastly, the 3rd Imperium is not Vilani - It is Solomani in creation and Sylea was a Terran inspired empire, not a Vilani one!

Anyway - I love this thread - keep it goinG!"!£""$££%$

 

[Blue Ghost]

I'd like to see the Solomani reworked, and given a variety of flavors instead of the monotheistic one they currently have. I'd like to see some Earth related adventures, and some adventures regarding the neighboring alien empires and their interaction with Terrans. And the adventures should be just that; adventures. I don't want to buy/open another booklet to find another patented boring adventure a-la GDW's LBBs. There has to be something to do, some action, something to shoot at, or escape from. Whether it's Soloman, Vilani, Vargr, K'Kree, Aslan, or whoever, the content of the adventures needs more action; whatever form it may take.

But getting back to the Soloman. I'd like to see a true Confederation for the Terrans, and maybe see the passing of the term "Solomani". Not neccesarily make them the good guys, but give them something that's rich and that can be worked with in terms of a game setting.

 

[Murph]

Thank you gentlemen. I see that I am not alone in that Dark Night. I think that the Solomani (Terran! Dammit!) sphere is potentially richer and more diverse than that of the Imperium. Darth Vader anyone?

 

[MT++]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Murph:
Thank you gentlemen. I see that I am not alone in that Dark Night. I think that the Solomani (Terran! Dammit!) sphere is potentially richer and more diverse than that of the Imperium. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Definitely!
There was always a strong anti-democratic tendency in Traveller. The Solomani actually had a working interstellar democracy (though how some worlds chose reps was not democratic)
The Imperium was an autocracy and was economically more efficient
This does not match real world stats

 

[Murph]

True although the British Empire was pretty strong commercially. Although they were not a real autocracy. The Traveller Imperium might have some problems with economics. I also always thought the Solomani should be at TL 15 or 16, just from the sheer inventiveness of the people. The Imperium at times seemed to stifle innovation.

Viva el Solomani!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MT++:
Definitely!
There was always a strong anti-democratic tendency in Traveller. The Solomani actually had a working interstellar democracy (though how some worlds chose reps was not democratic)
The Imperium was an autocracy and was economically more efficient
This does not match real world stats

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

[Nathan Brazil]

When did the Gene War and uplifted Simians come about? It states that the project was started during the Interstellar Wars, abandoned because of discovering anti-grav and completed by Confederation scientists(thousands of years later?). And dolphins for that matter. Does anyone have more info? For that matter, throwing another stick into the flame of Solomani Supremacy, would the ability to Uplift have contributed to the attitude of the "minority" in charge (dogma or propaganda-wise)?

 

[Murph]

I think the uplift angle was fascinating, and never really carried as far as it should have been. The Solomani had superior geenering techniques compared to other races, and this should have been explored.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nathan Brazil:
When did the Gene War and uplifted Simians come about? It states that the project was started during the Interstellar Wars, abandoned because of discovering anti-grav and completed by Confederation scientists(thousands of years later?). And dolphins for that matter. Does anyone have more info? For that matter, throwing another stick into the flame of Solomani Supremacy, would the ability to Uplift have contributed to the attitude of the "minority" in charge (dogma or propaganda-wise)?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

[kafka47]

What about the Solomani as the Democratic menace to Imperial society. Much like Napoleon was to aristocratic Europe?

What I would really like to see is Terra fleshed out in great detail. The DGP product left feeling that this could be any other world with a long history. SJG did really touch on Terra rather focused on the Rim. Something akin to what Marc did for Luna in Dragon would be nice. So if SJG is listening why not invite Marc to write the history of the Terra system for their planetary sourcebook series.

Home (Aldebaran) would be akin to South Africa. Maybe even throw in a minor race in which the Solomani do not keep in servatude but feel threatened by it developing a defensive enclosure movement like aparheid South Africa.

 

[Spinward Scout]

The Circled Cross isn't just the KKK/Aryan Nation symbol (didn't even know it was, myself) it's Originally the Greek symbol for Earth. The background of the Imperium and it's surrounding neighbors wasn't supposed to be set in stone. Change the Solomani to be the way you like them to be and play on!

Scout

 

[kafka47]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ScoutCadet469:
The Circled Cross isn't just the KKK/Aryan Nation symbol (didn't even know it was, myself) it's Originally the Greek symbol for Earth. The background of the Imperium and it's surrounding neighbors wasn't supposed to be set in stone. Change the Solomani to be the way you like them to be and play on!

Scout<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed. Interstellar polities matter little in many lives of their citizens. To modify a Russian proverb: "God is in heaven and the emperor is far, far, away." It would be interesting however to see what the emotions of Solomani away from the Rim are. I suspect they would emphasize that it is a Confederation were a plurality of interests lie. Simply because there are some bigots in the Supreme Council of their world, it ought not effect anything as: who cares?

It also ought to remembered that ruling ideology does not always see itself as promoting hatred. Again the example of South Africa, ask any South African if they felt that the State was Racist. Most would say, we believe in: "Separate but Equal." Unknown to them that it is the apartheid legislation which reinforces the inequality.

With all of South Africa's pass laws, banning, etc. authoritarian measures aimed at Public Security. Yet a formal remaining democracy, makes it an ideal candiate for what the Solomani Confederation could look like.

 

[Murph]

Rim of Fire, Blech, they made the Solomani Comic opera Nazi, or perhaps even Italian Fascists a la Mussolini. No, No, No! The Solomani are not the Evil Empire. *sigh*

 

[Spinward Scout]

Something interesting I found is that if you take away half of each "pie" arc in the Solomani/Earth symbol (i.e. one of each section of arc) it creates a rounded swastika - which of course is another symbol that was not a bad symbol to begin with. Anyways, I'm going to use that in my "Final Reich" campaign I'm going to throw against my players - the Solomani attempt to retake the 3rd Imperium territories. I run the GURPS Traveller timeline.

Later,

Scout

 

[kafka47]

Other than protraying the Solomani as the Afrikaaners of Space. I also favoured playing them as a foil, off against the Imperium. For the Imperium, prides itself on its tolerance and diversity but the social structure of the 3I is quite rigid and in no means a democracy. Even if Dullnor's reforms had gone ahead, chances are we still would have a despotic regime moderated by a constitution. How long before Old Corruption would also eat away that shell and the same old noble games would be played out.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think that we ought to play the 3I that way but, I think it is equally fascile to play off the Solomani as the evil empire. Far from being monolithic and totalitarian, save in times of war and crisis, much like any democracy the Confederation is riveted with factions and counter parties all competiting for dominance. The question is how much of that crisis is manufactured to gain consent?

I suspect in the case of the Confederation, it is poised in continual crisis mode. For Terra is occupied, the Imps are constantly threatening that the Sphere was created by royal charter and therefore can be denied by similar royal charter, Imps are trying large scale psychohistorical techniques to try to have Terrans more divided then ever (read: Rim). Therefore, while Solomani society is quite ugly in the future, we should give a more balanced approach than just the jack boots of Sol Sec. Keep in mind, it is a CONFEDERATION, not just like the ole South but also like the Swiss where it is also manditory to serve in the army and in some canton vote. Therefore, if you can get your hands on Cats and Rats, you might want to explore some of the factions that make up the Solomani Confederation.

So play the Confederation as an oligarchy always keeping in mind that the 3I is plutocracy.

 

[Murph]

I also think that the Solomani Sphere is too darn small. After all that time, you think they would have explored/colonized further to rimward than is shown on the maps. I mean the Solomani Conferderation should be at least as large as the Hivers or Aslan.