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The Solomani, not just bad guys anymore

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Murph:
I also think that the Solomani Sphere is too darn small. After all that time, you think they would have explored/colonized further to rimward than is shown on the maps. I mean the Solomani Conferderation should be at least as large as the Hivers or Aslan.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You got the remember in the minds of some Solomani, the sphere is merely an Imperial invention therefore, they lay claim to the minimum of the ROM and the most the galaxy. The sphere is meant to designate a sphere of influence in which the Solomani are sovereign because the 3I knows that it would cause open rebellion in many worlds within its sphere of influence, should it try to drive past Terra. A military campaign that premised itself that Imperial culture could dominate over residual Solomani & Vilani differences. However, IMTU, the Solomani are scuttlely racially movitaved therefore, the 3I has always to watch itself....
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Murph:
I also think that the Solomani Sphere is too darn small. After all that time, you think they would have explored/colonized further to rimward than is shown on the maps. I mean the Solomani Conferderation should be at least as large as the Hivers or Aslan.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They are expanding rimward. Firstly, when the sphere was first established, the Imperium only controlled just up to Terra (ie virtually all of the present day Confederation space has _never_ been part of the Imperium). Secondly the Solomani have launched a number of long range scouting missions rimward. Its just that expansion is expensive and the internal politics of the Confederation work against it.
 
Not only are expanding Rimward, they are also expanding to the neighbouring Galatic Arms.

One has to think of the Solomani Sphere, like the Federation of Star Trek ilk.

Save Humans dominate, aliens are subordinate. Then again...other then the token alien promoted through Starfleet's affirmative action program. How many aliens did we see on Star Trek in command situations? Even Mr. Spock was modified to be half-human. Sure the uniforms are different but essentially we are still dealing with the same thing.

Note, 90% of this post is tongue in cheek. But, the 10% is not, is meant to highlight that some of misperceptions of the Traveller universe is based on we believe what we want to.
 
Hmmm, you could be right, although for a group as peripatetic as the Solomani, it should be larger rimward, or are there beeeeeelllions of little one horse star nations out there set up by disgruntled Solomani?

Originally posted by Andrewmv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Murph:
I also think that the Solomani Sphere is too darn small. After all that time, you think they would have explored/colonized further to rimward than is shown on the maps. I mean the Solomani Conferderation should be at least as large as the Hivers or Aslan.
They are expanding rimward. Firstly, when the sphere was first established, the Imperium only controlled just up to Terra (ie virtually all of the present day Confederation space has _never_ been part of the Imperium). Secondly the Solomani have launched a number of long range scouting missions rimward. Its just that expansion is expensive and the internal politics of the Confederation work against it.</font>[/QUOTE]
 
I too, like others mentioned on this string think that the Solomani have been given an unfair rap.
I've always viewed the Confederation as exactly that, a Confederation, a loosely united people. United for defence and trade. Allowing their member worlds to run their world as they please.
(with exceptions of course;)
The Imperium, a Federation smacks of authoritatianism, central rule and restriction.
Just my two beans.

I think a campaign in Solomani space would be an excellent Idea.
I would hope a Solomani handbook with planet details, etc is planned.
 
Originally posted by Murph:
I never liked the comic opera portrayal of the Solomani. I mean they were depicted as a cross between a Stalinist/Nazi empire with strong overtones of Mussolini's Italy thrown in.
I ran several Solomani campaigns in both CT and MT and enjoyed them immensely. I think it's a great challenge to be given a culture like the Solomani's and find a way to develop a campaign that works in the periphery of that culture.

While the Solomani Movement was morally reprehensible, the PCs could be Solomani who didn't share those hardcore beliefs.

Having your players play citizens of an intrinsically misguided polity opens up all kinds of possibilities for roleplaying that aren't as evident in more plain vanilla places like the Imperium.
 
I rather like Solomani characters and adventures. Stir the pot and see what comes out, down with the imperialist dogs! Long live the Solomani Confederation and so on, etc., etc.
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I rather like doing Zhodane and Darrian as well.
 
I agree, I tended to soft pedal the sillier racist aspects of the Solomani Movement. I would love to see another updated Solomani sourcebook. The Gurps one was just too over the topic with the comic opera neo fascist stuff.
 
Originally posted by Murph:
I agree, I tended to soft pedal the sillier racist aspects of the Solomani Movement. I would love to see another updated Solomani sourcebook. The Gurps one was just too over the topic with the comic opera neo fascist stuff.
Gee, and I thought I had tried to portray them as a lot less comic-opera than the picture you get in the Classic material. :rolleyes:

To be honest, I see the Solomani Confederation as a potentially very healthy state that has been sidetracked by a not-so-healthy ideology. We plan to put out a book that's centered entirely on the Solomani next year -- basically, a book for Aldebaran sector combined with a more fleshed-out look at Confederation politics and society. There will be space for a lot more nuances there.
 
Actually, I think the Solomani rimward frontier is a *great* campaign area. Especially since the Solomani rimward frontier is a true frontier (unlike the Spinward Marches).

If you like the Solomani government, you can play as agents of the government (like you would if the Imperium had an actual frontier). But if you don't like the Solomani government, you get to have all sorts of fun.

Heck, for all we know, Firefly could be *set* on the Solomani rimward frontier!
 
Originally posted by Murph:
I never liked the comic opera portrayal of the Solomani. I mean they were depicted as a cross between a Stalinist/Nazi empire with strong overtones of Mussolini's Italy thrown in.
I can't see the Imperium as democratic (heriditary Emperor and a heriditary nobility that hold the power!) It might be a liberal state but surely not democratic. The Solomani Confederation doesn't seem to me democratic too - one party, the SolSec etc. But on the other hand when you think of the vastness of theese empires democracy in our sence is impossible (it would take a year till the votes from Regina arrive at the election bureaus in Core...)
I still remember the cold war between west and east. My country was neutral though orientated towards the west. But beeing not direct the "Capitalistic Enemy" we were able to get at least some superficial insights into the thinking of the east. The way the US were portrayed in eastern propaganda was very much like the Solomani are viewn by the Imperium and vice versa. While the Communistic states surely were dictatorships and one party regimes the party had fractions not all to different from our plural party system. And in Communist view there was no real difference between Republicans and Democrats what meant that in their view the US was an one party state also. I am married to a woman from the former GDR (East Germany)and have discussed history with her and my new relatives very often.
One thing I found out that though their propaganda about the west portrayed us in total wrong light our western "journalism" wasn't any better and the view we got from the east was as distorted than vice versa.

Now think of two big interstellar states both too big to be governed by direct elections - one choose feudalism to be able to stay a functional unit the other one reverted to a federational society which would automatically turn into a dictatorship because somewhen comes the point when the burocrat/office clerk/officer - choose what you like - ist too far away from the "ordinary people" and can't be made responsible for his actions by them. Both states are so vast that interstellar politics don't affect the daily live of joe schmoe so that he enjoys a big deal of personal freedom.
So let's have a look at two common accusations of both sides:
Imperial citizen: You claim to be a superior Race and supress all other sentient beeings!
SolConf citizen: Well there are no Aliens here on my world - so how can I be supressive to them? When we colonize a World then we should control it too - nesque pas? And for Aliens - I don't have something against them they should live their own lives as we do - what's wrong with that? And when they come to live on our worlds the have to aquire our customs, can't see nothing wrong with that. Pogromes? never heard of such a thing occuring, at least not here - maybe in the outer rims - but live is always a bit harsh on new clonies. By the way - isn't your emperor a Solomani too?

Solconf citizen:
The Imperium doesn't even care about it's citizens. It does'nt prevent some mad nazi (mythological evil creature of Terras far past) obtaining the control over a whole world with billions of subjects if just the trade routes remain open!
Imperial citizen:
The Imperium leaves it's worlds to do as they like - that's freedom! And if a world want's to follow some nat, nas, - err whatever - they should be allowed to do so. The Imperium controls just the space between the stars to give it's subjects as much freedom as possible. And trade is the key to every citizens survival and health - so it must be protected at all costs.
And since it is not possible to have elections because of the vastness of space and the slowness of interstellar communication it's logical that the nerve of society (the trade routes) are controlled by the best ones that are trained to do so from childhood. Heck - does your sysadmin has to ask you if he reconfigures your network? he'll just do it when it's necessary or am I wrong? And on the surface of the planet each population can do as they like - that's what freedom is all about!

And now imagine theese two empires beeing at cold war status following a hot war with wich result both are not happy and imagine the propaganda - I think you'll get the point by now. And in the Solomani Sphere you can bet that the Imperium is portrayed as a heartless burocracy controlled by the financial interests of a few degenerated and senile families who claim to be better than "normal" people because of their long line of to be reverred ancestors and thus are destined to rule the universe...
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Originally posted by JFZeigler:
Originally posted by Murph:
[qb] We plan to put out a book that's centered entirely on the Solomani next year -- basically, a book for Aldebaran sector combined with a more fleshed-out look at Confederation politics and society. There will be space for a lot more nuances there.
I, for one, would happily crawl across a bed of broken glass for such a book.
 
Excellent, I'll buy one. The Solomani Movement can be used as almost comic opera rather than the supreme racist conspiracy that people seem to want to make it. I see there being a strong movement both to and away from the Solomani "cause" within the Confederation. I'd also like to see more exploration rimward by the Solomani. Viva Solomani!


Originally posted by JFZeigler:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Murph:
I agree, I tended to soft pedal the sillier racist aspects of the Solomani Movement. I would love to see another updated Solomani sourcebook. The Gurps one was just too over the topic with the comic opera neo fascist stuff.
Gee, and I thought I had tried to portray them as a lot less comic-opera than the picture you get in the Classic material. :rolleyes:

To be honest, I see the Solomani Confederation as a potentially very healthy state that has been sidetracked by a not-so-healthy ideology. We plan to put out a book that's centered entirely on the Solomani next year -- basically, a book for Aldebaran sector combined with a more fleshed-out look at Confederation politics and society. There will be space for a lot more nuances there.
</font>[/QUOTE]
 
Also I can see the Solomani Confederation having more in common with the worlds of Eric Frank Russel, or Christopher Anvil than Pournelle's Co-Dominium universe.
 
Originally posted by Murph:
Excellent, I'll buy one. The Solomani Movement can be used as almost comic opera rather than the supreme racist conspiracy that people seem to want to make it. I see there being a strong movement both to and away from the Solomani "cause" within the Confederation. I'd also like to see more exploration rimward by the Solomani. Viva Solomani!
The statistical evidence is that there's no difference between Solomani worldgen and Imperial worldgen. This, in turn, implies that the governments are actually roughly equally free/repressive.

Of course, calling the Imperium a free society is evidence that one is deeply delusional.
 
I have to agree that seeing Earth as a near dictatorship versus its surrounding world has some charms. It only shows that Solomani aren't "Perfect" either.

And it amplifies the "Out of This World" effect of Sci-Fi by using concept we surely wouldn`t like to see right now on earth.

Just like when Babylon 5 declared it was seceding from the Earth Alliance on TV, picturing our "descendant" as somewhat ruthless put a twist on things, compared to all the other shows/RPG where Humans from Earth are the GOOD GUYS(TM) and everyone else are BAD GUYS(TM)

It shows that we're not perfect
 
Originally posted by MT++:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Murph:
Thank you gentlemen. I see that I am not alone in that Dark Night. I think that the Solomani (Terran! Dammit!) sphere is potentially richer and more diverse than that of the Imperium.
Definitely!
There was always a strong anti-democratic tendency in Traveller. The Solomani actually had a working interstellar democracy (though how some worlds chose reps was not democratic)
The Imperium was an autocracy and was economically more efficient
This does not match real world stats
</font>[/QUOTE]In my camp the 3rd Imperium is than Islamist Imperium with other non-Islamist people in it and the non-Islamist make up 1/2 of the population. While the Solomani are a bunch od Christian fundie who didnot allow the Muslum to travel to Meca so the Imperium liberate Earth from the infile Solomani. Also in my camp the Rebellion end with the Strephon and Margarer Faction winning. Margarer hushand was killed by Solomani agents. Than Margarer did give birth to two children of Strephon
seeds that they got marry.
 
Sophiethegreen said,
In my camp the 3rd Imperium is than Islamist Imperium with other non-Islamist people in it and the non-Islamist make up 1/2 of the population. While the Solomani are a bunch od Christian fundie who didnot allow the Muslum to travel to Meca so the Imperium liberate Earth from the infile Solomani. Also in my camp the Rebellion end with the Strephon and Margarer Faction winning. Margarer hushand was killed by Solomani agents. Than Margarer did give birth to two children of Strephon
seeds that they got marry.
I had the impression that both the Imperium and the Solomani Confederation were secular states. In my mind The Solomani Confederation = The Confederate States of America. A Civil War is brewing, but their is no United States of America, instead there is a nice Roman Empire. The CSA compared to the Roman Empire is more democratic despite its flaws, there is no USA alternative. And Sophie, your always bringing up this Islamic thing, why? I doubt Islam would survive 5,000 years, probably not any recognizable religion would survive such a long period of time. Cold sleep allows for some possibility of a "Buck Rogers" sort of character from the mid to late 21st century. This poor "Buck Rogers" would not speak the language, and would belong to a religion that largely no longer exists, he might at first think the Solomani are the good guys, after all he saw the movie "Star Wars" and knows all about the "Evil Galactic Empire"
If he ever meets an Imperial Admiral, he might be quite surprised if he is not a sadistic brute.
 
Originally posted by Tom Kalbfus:
Cold sleep allows for some possibility of a "Buck Rogers" sort of character from the mid to late 21st century. This poor "Buck Rogers" would not speak the language, and would belong to a religion that largely no longer exists, he might at first think the Solomani are the good guys, after all he saw the movie "Star Wars" and knows all about the "Evil Galactic Empire"
If he ever meets an Imperial Admiral, he might be quite surprised if he is not a sadistic brute.
Depends, he might be shot on sight if he plays/dance that lame simili-disco they were showing in the show :D
 
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